Oil recommendation for a 1000 horsepower supra!

[Gremil]

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Locally there is an AMC Javelin AMX that has an engine build by legendary AMC performance engine builder Herman Lewis. This engine is an actual AMC engine that develops around 1,000 horsepower at the engine. The car itself is a car built by AMC made mostly of fiberglass that probably was used or meant to be used in Trans AM or similar racing and now has been converted to a drag car. He calls it "Rare Breed" because of it being AMC powered.

The motor oil he uses is AMSOIL Series 2000 20W-50 racing oil. He has had experiences that solidify his belief in this product. Here's why:
He had a defective distributor gear and after replacing it he ran a petroleum 20W-50 racing oil temporarily to clean up the engine before switching back to the AMSOIL Series 2000 Racing Oil. His ET dropped consistently about 7 MPH top end and close to 1/2 second for the quarter mile. Every run was consistent but less than before. After he switched back to the AMSOIL Series 2000 20W-50 Racing oil his car went back to the old top speed and ET and was consistent at those speeds. Had to be the oil.

You engine sounds like it has the same problems as he does, with using racing fuel and very rich. With the 20W-50 viscosity you have enough viscosity built in for some fuel dillution so as not to have engine wear or damage.

That's my recommendation. Good luck!

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you dont think the 20w50 is too thick with those posted clearences?
what clearences is that AMC motor? is it N/A?
Im sure it could be a lil looser but who knows?
I had an issue with tight clearence and 20w50 2000 so now I use ASL in that application

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If the Series 2000 20W-50 Racing oil was too thick, I would use the Series 2000 0W-30. But I was thinking about the possibility of fuel dilution and that's what the 20W-50 viscosity range was good for. The Javelin was running racing fuel and lots of it very rich. He has 5/8 inch fuel lines and consumes nearly 2 gallons of fuel per run. The 20W-50 would give some safety margin for fuel dilution. If fuel dilution isn't a concern, I would use the Series 2000 0W-30. It's in the same class of performance additives and would work great too.

 

[gtx510]

I'm having trouble with the posted clearances, they seem way too tight, like a decimal place is off. Are you sure they aren't?

Main bearing clearance = 22 thou
Thrust clearance= 40 thou
Connecting rod clearance= 16-22 thou
Piston-wall clearance= 40 thou

or

Main bearing clearance = 0.022"
Thrust clearance= 0.044"
Connecting rod clearance= 0.016-0.022"
Piston-wall clearance= 0.040"

I think clearances like might call for a 50wt oil.

 

[alpha6164]

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I'm having trouble with the posted clearances, they seem way too tight, like a decimal place is off. Are you sure they aren't?

Main bearing clearance = 22 thou
Thrust clearance= 40 thou
Connecting rod clearance= 16-22 thou
Piston-wall clearance= 40 thou

or

Main bearing clearance = 0.022"
Thrust clearance= 0.044"
Connecting rod clearance= 0.016-0.022"
Piston-wall clearance= 0.040"

I think clearances like might call for a 50wt oil.

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I am not sure why you are having trouble. Clearances are measured in thousandths. And I have never heard of piston to wall clearance of 40 thousandths. You don't need a platigauge for that. You can measure that with a twizler


Here is a little article talking about clearances in a pontiac. Although obviously not the same car/engine you can see that we are talking about clerances of 0.0020" (two thouasandths) not 20 thouasandths. Hope this helps:


How to setup clearances in a pontiac!

 

[gtx510]

doh, I looked at my 323GTX FSM for comparison but I looked at the mm column (not inches). Sorry, it's been a sleepless night and some of the old braincells aren't falling into line.

Your clearances seem pretty tight so a 30wt oil with short OCI's might work nicely if you want max power.
Do you have a Supra service manual or have access to the stock clearances? It probably doesn't help to compare to a stock Miata engine

 

[alpha6164]

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doh, I looked at my 323GTX FSM for comparison but I looked at the mm column (not inches). Sorry, it's been a sleepless night and some of the old braincells aren't falling into line.

Your clearances seem pretty tight so a 30wt oil with short OCI's might work nicely if you want max power.
Do you have a Supra service manual or have access to the stock clearances? It probably doesn't help to compare to a stock Miata engine

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Lol, its ok. But do you think those are tight tolerances? Just reading the article above I posted states that the clearances they use in the pontiac engine for rod and main are between 1.5-2.5 thouasanths and more than that you have oil pressure problems. Its interesting that mine also fall right into that range

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

Just curious how do you know it makes 1000hp? Has it been on a dyno yet? Supras are known to be dyno queens and make gobs of power but they rarely seem to put out 1/4 mile numbers to back up the dyno numbers.


With that said I love your supra. It is a very nice looking car and I am sure you will have tons of fun with it! If it were me I would run 15W40 Rotella T synthetic. You want a good syn to keep those turbos alive.

 

[alpha6164]

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Just curious how do you know it makes 1000hp? Has it been on a dyno yet? Supras are known to be dyno queens and make gobs of power but they rarely seem to put out 1/4 mile numbers to back up the dyno numbers.


With that said I love your supra. It is a very nice looking car and I am sure you will have tons of fun with it! If it were me I would run 15W40 Rotella T synthetic. You want a good syn to keep those turbos alive.

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Well it put down 700whp with only 17psi on pump gas only. We never even tested it with 25-30psi and race gas. That by itself is 800 at the crank. Now with fully built bottom end, 3.4L stroker etc, 30psi and ~900-950whp is definitely doable.

As far as being dyno queens, there are definitely some supras out there that are street driven and are running 8s all day long. It all depends on how you setup the car. Some guys setup massive turbos running strictly as a drag setup, some run small to midsize turbos and are highway monsters.

Here are some videos of different supras running:

Ryans car


Zohairs car running 7s

Titan vs. Boostlogics supras FINALS

 

[HondaF1Fanatic]

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Just curious how do you know it makes 1000hp? Has it been on a dyno yet? Supras are known to be dyno queens and make gobs of power but they rarely seem to put out 1/4 mile numbers to back up the dyno numbers.


With that said I love your supra. It is a very nice looking car and I am sure you will have tons of fun with it! If it were me I would run 15W40 Rotella T synthetic. You want a good syn to keep those turbos alive.

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but a friend who used to own a Supra always made this self effacing joke:

What do a 700hp, and 800hp, and a 1000hp Supra have in common? They all run 12 sec 1/4s.

Jon

 

[alpha6164]

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What do a 700hp, and 800hp, and a 1000hp Supra have in common? They all run 12 sec 1/4s.

Jon

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You must have not clicked on those videos i just posted above. You will see that there are supras running 7s. Lol, i have heard the same comment mostly from domestic owners that think mustangs/vettes are the end all to all cars I am a car guy, so domestic/import doesnt mean anything to me as long as you can back it up.

 

[HondaF1Fanatic]

I have seen those videos multiple times. It is just a running joke we have with him as he couldn't drive Tony Schumacher's Top Fueler faster than 12 sec. Also, IIRC those cars aren't quite running stock trannies and rear ends are they? Also, have you seen my signature? I own a blue egg shaped import

and am definitely not a big domestic fanboy.

Jon

 

[ProStreetCamaro]

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Just curious how do you know it makes 1000hp? Has it been on a dyno yet? Supras are known to be dyno queens and make gobs of power but they rarely seem to put out 1/4 mile numbers to back up the dyno numbers.


With that said I love your supra. It is a very nice looking car and I am sure you will have tons of fun with it! If it were me I would run 15W40 Rotella T synthetic. You want a good syn to keep those turbos alive.

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Well it put down 700whp with only 17psi on pump gas only. We never even tested it with 25-30psi and race gas. That by itself is 800 at the crank. Now with fully built bottom end, 3.4L stroker etc, 30psi and ~900-950whp is definitely doable.

As far as being dyno queens, there are definitely some supras out there that are street driven and are running 8s all day long. It all depends on how you setup the car. Some guys setup massive turbos running strictly as a drag setup, some run small to midsize turbos and are highway monsters.

Here are some videos of different supras running:

Ryans car


Zohairs car running 7s

Titan vs. Boostlogics supras FINALS

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I hope I didnt come across wrong with what I said. I know there are alot of fast supras out there and I am sure with the right suspension, tires, trans and stuff yours will fly! Its an ongoing joke with our car club about them being dyno queens.

My car N/A makes a little over 600hp but its a purpose built 383 stroker in a purpose built car. Bad thig is I am trying to drive it on the street because I got gun shy after a bad accident in my other race car. rolled my vega 6 times doing 130 on the big end.

 

[alpha6164]

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I have seen those videos multiple times. It is just a running joke we have with him as he couldn't drive Tony Schumacher's Top Fueler faster than 12 sec. Also, IIRC those cars aren't quite running stock trannies and rear ends are they? Also, have you seen my signature? I own a blue egg shaped import

and am definitely not a big domestic fanboy.

Jon

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No offense taken

But those supras are running stock rear end for the most part. The 6-speed getrag transmission that came with the supra is as stout as you can get. Thera are no aftermarket manual trannies for the supras. Most supra owners upgrade to the TRD LSD for better traction, but its a stock toyota item.

There are plenty of supras that are running north of 1000whp for thousands of miles without any issues on the 6-speed tranny. Now I can tell you that with a 6-speed you are only going into the 8s, like Ryan Woon. You do need a built auto for a faster 1/4 time like 7s. But those running the TH400 for great 1/4 time get murdered on the highway. Just different strokes for different folks.

 

[alpha6164]

After speaking to one of the top tech guys at amsoil, he recommended that I go with the Amsoil AME 15w-40. He said its much better than the 10w-40 cause it has a much better additive package cause its a diesel oil. He said all the other 30weights HT/HS are a little too low in his opinion for my application.

What surprise me was that he recommended against me using the Amsoil Ea oil filter. He said that it filters so well that in his opinion it would restrict oil flow for an engine like mine. He said that since my oil changes will be 2500miles, that there was no need for such a filter. What do you guys think?

 

[buster]

Much better additive package because it's a diesel oil? I guess he is referring to the higher ZDDP levels.

There are several oils I'd consider:
Amsoil: 20w-50 Racing oil
10w-40 MCF MC oil
10w-40 Marine oil

Redline 10w-40

PP 15w-50

Renewable Lube 5w-40

 

[alpha6164]

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Much better additive package because it's a diesel oil? I guess he is referring to the higher ZDDP levels.

There are several oils I'd consider:
Amsoil: 20w-50 Racing oil
10w-40 MCF MC oil
10w-40 Marine oil

Redline 10w-40

PP 15w-50

Renewable Lube 5w-40

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He spent a good 30min on the phone going over all the options. He said that the 20w-50 might be too thick in his opinion based on my clearances. Although he did say that until we run the car and look at the oil pressure and temperatures we will not know a 100%. Stock supra main clearance is 0.0015". We have opened it up to 0.0025". Since the manufacturer recommends 10w-30, he said that going to a 40weight will be right with the slightly larger clearances.

He liked the MCF 10w-40, but he said it does not have any friction modifiers, so why go with that when you can have a similar product that offers pretty much everything and adds friction modifiers.

There is no Amsoil 10w-40 Marine oil. The only marine oil is the 15w-40 AME and that is the one he recommended. He liked it because of the extra zing and phos, great HT/HS and low wear numbers.

 

[buster]

Thanks alpha. Well sounds like it's a good choice to go with the AME. I'd also speak with Redline and see what they have to say. I'm curious though, did he say why Amsoil 10w-30 ATM wouldn't be a good choice?

I've suggested to Amsoil awhile ago that they make a true racng line of oils based on the Series 2000 20w-50 chemistry, but offer different grades of it such as 5w-40, 5w-30 and 0w-20.

Here is the 10w-40 Marine Oil:

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/wcf.aspx

10w-30 Marine oil:

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/wct.aspx

 

[Bobert]

M1 TDT 5w-40 or D1.

 

[Steve S]

2 thou to 2 and a half thou for the crank and the other clearances are the same clearances run on my last big block chev in my flatbottom boat, that is 40 or 50 wt multi visc oil territory. Oil with high additives sounds good.

 

[alpha6164]

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Thanks alpha. Well sounds like it's a good choice to go with the AME. I'd also speak with Redline and see what they have to say. I'm curious though, did he say why Amsoil 10w-30 ATM wouldn't be a good choice?

I've suggested to Amsoil awhile ago that they make a true racng line of oils based on the Series 2000 20w-50 chemistry, but offer different grades of it such as 5w-40, 5w-30 and 0w-20.

Here is the 10w-40 Marine Oil:

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/wcf.aspx

10w-30 Marine oil:

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/wct.aspx

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He just stated that for the turbo charge and 8000rpm, there will be some shearing going on and none of the 30weights give a high enough HT/HS that he would like. He said if there he had to choose one though it would be the HDD 3000 series 5w-30 since it has a great additive package, low wear and the highest HT/HS of all the 30weights they sell.

He also stated that for the same above reasons, he prefers an oil with the least range between the two numbers. He said that the bigger the range, the more viscosity modifiers they have to use which might not be so great in my application.

I have called Redline and their 10w-40 looks great, but after a week of reading every thread on this site about redline and looking at UOA, i am hesitant because of all the higher wear numbers. It seems as there a lot of comments as to "Redline softens" or "reacts to different metals and conditions" hence the higher wear numbers. It just does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

The other two options are the Motul 300V ad the Royal Purple Racing 10w-40. The Motul looks to have a great additive package, high moly, zinc, boron and a great HT/HS. Choices, choices......

 

[Bobert]

Motul 300v 5w-40 is some pretty stout oil. Has HTHS of ~4.5 I believe. Very pricey though..the Dom Perignon of oils.