oil is oil is oil...all the same

Status
Not open for further replies.
bighead
Member
Member # 6464

posted 11 August, 2006 05:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Um...I can't see the pic. Can anyone else see it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 824 | From: Round Rock, TX | Registered: Mar 2005 | IP: Logged |


You dont want to.
 
Any one that thinks oil is oil either does not work on that many engines or they run conservative OCI. Many OEM's have recomended OCI's of 10,000 miles or more today. Any one thinks that Walmart SM dino 5W30 is going to do a good job running out to 10,000 or more miles between OCI's is insane!!!!

America is an easy market for oil. We travel at mostly low speeds and have a lot of overly powerful V6 and V8 emgines turning at low RPM's.We have few non-commercial diesels and few turbo/super charged engines. We have relatively clean environment.We tend to travel farther distances per-year by privately owned vechiles then any other country on earth. We have relatively decent fuel.

You can run an engine with 10,000 mile OCI and quality synthetic and have it be just as clean or cleaner then the same engine run on dino oil with 3000-5000 mile OCI!It depends on the engine the harder the engine is on oil and the dirtier it's emission system the more you notice this. Even if the engines look about the same on the metal surfaces a quick peek at the seals and gaskets will tell you wich oil was run in each engine. Engines run on dino will have carbon deposits between the parts mateing surfaces and on the gasket edges.It can be thick enough to hold the parts together all by itself even on an otherwise super clean engine. An engine run on synthetic will either be devoid of these deposits or they will be very faint and hardly visable. An engine run on synthetic oil almost falls apart as soon as you take out the bolts hold the parts to/on the engine. You almost never have to use a rubber mallet to seperate parts becasue their is usualy no carbon,varnish or sludge deposits glueing the parts tpgether. Few people go much deeper into their engine then what can be seen through the oil fill cap and so they never see this. I have had paper gaskets come off engines run on synthetic that fell cleanly away from the part and looked like knew even after 5-10 years of use. You will never see that happen on any engine run on dino.

It is not about wear prevention that is easy enough to accomplish with dino and sensable OCI!! It is all about deposit control if longterm engine life is your goal.

Think of almost like your heart. The trick to not haveing a heart attack or stroke is seldom related to preventing your heart from wearing out!! It is usualy about keeping the blood and all of the goodies it carries moveing freely. Usualy it is about deposit control. Keep scar tissue,calcium and lipids from being deposited in your bloodvessels and you have few cardio issues. On the other hand you could run 70-100 miles a week and eat a diet high in fat and sugar with very little lean meat and very little fiber and plug your bloodvessels right up. If you doubt this is so you can easily find a lot of marathon runners and ultra marathon runners that die of heart attacks and strokes each year. So to reiterate it is more about deposit control then wear prevention. Do not get me wrong wear prevention is needed but it is not the most inportant thing. In your engine if you can keep the parts seperated and can control deposits the engine will run a long time.
 
Johnbrowning,

I wonder how many Bitog's member are reading and researching as much about their bloodvessels and cholesterol than about engine oil ???
rolleyes.gif


I agree with you that all the oil arent the same, but the end result for most or the vast majority of car owners is the same, the car fall apart before the engine.

The research made on this board are very informative and its a nice hobby, however you can keep your car 20 years and you can put 150000 miles easy on dino, even if you use or as long as you use a reputable brand of oil ,a Fram filter and by following the manufacturer instruction.

We would like to tell different but it's like that in the world ouside of this board.

I have the example in front of me, a cousin with 278000 km or 168000 miles on a Hyundai accent 95 maintained exclusively at some different place similar to your Jiffy lub. All kind of oil was poured in that little engine, and the way it is the engine is going to survive the rest of the car...

So I think we know more than the normal driver about oil but that serve almost no purpose in the real life of a normal car used by the majority of the peoples.
 
Hey guys, it just ain't true that all engines run 200K miles without lubrication problems running 3000 OCI's. I serviced LOTS of engines that had seal failures, turbo bearing failures, timing chain failures, hydraulic lifter failures,valve failures, and emissions failures due to lubrcication issues. These engines all had frequent OCI's. I don't work on HondaToys, but people right next to me do and they have similar problems.My opinion is only based on observation, but a synthetic oil will probably save you a major $1000 repair over a 200K life span. Most people do NOT get 200K without some trouble... People who only think the cost of oil is the only consideration are missing the point.
 
quote:
Originally posted by carock:
Hey guys, it just ain't true that all engines run 200K miles without lubrication problems running 3000 OCI's. I serviced LOTS of engines that had seal failures, turbo bearing failures, timing chain failures, hydraulic lifter failures,valve failures, and emissions failures due to lubrcication issues.
Click to expand...
Not that I want to be the devil's advocate but how did you get to these conclusion ?? Oil related problems are very difficult to prove.

If the cars has been maintained according to the manufacturers and if you are absolutly sure that the oil is the problem , why aren't you calling the oil company for an evaluation of the damage ??? Your customer that is maintaining his car the way it should be deserve that service, who knows, maybe the oil makers will participate to the cost of the repair ??

I can understand that you are fixing a lot of engines, but there is many more engine that you will never see in your shop or in any shop.
 
An engine failure produced by lubrication is a longterm issue. Thus it is difficult to prove anything after 5-10 years of a pour lubrication. If we call the oil company to pay the bill we will probably be insulted for our "bad" driving style, or we will be informed that "this is an absolutely normal engine wear", or that our favorite gasoline station is a cheater, or that our mechanic is a bad and a downy one, or it was a sabotage by our ex wife who wants to destroy us and drained out of engine the half of its lube etc. Finaly, I am sure that we will continue as an absolute believers of the same oil company, or to continue believing that all the lubes are the same.

So, the lubricate situation is a personal one. You may want to use the best of the best or just a sufficient certified lube (or even the cheapest one). It's up to the owner.
 
Wow, we're almost all the way through the second page, and nobody's called it yet???

I will: TROLL ATTACK!!!


IMO, if the :
1) unknown newbish member,
2) who makes flagrantly foolish statement,
3) hasn't reappeared to back up his drivel after it has been challenged three or four times;
====> then we've got a troll and we should all leave the thread alone and deny him the satisfaction of watching us all go nuts telling him how full of it he is.
pat.gif
 
I know people who have smoked several packs of cigarettes daily and have still lived into their upper eighties without developing cancer or heart problems. Does that mean smoking is safe for everyone? Maybe smoking is good for you!
quote:
Originally posted by flinter:
In 1985, I brought a new Ford Tempo. Since money was
tight for me back than, I used Shop Rite brand
10W-30 oil (Shop Rite is a grocery store chain)
for most of the life on the car. I got 192,000 miles
out of that car with NO engines/transmission problems at ALL! Nothing! And this was some no name
gorcery store oil!!

Ya know, doesnt that just go to show you that this
oil debate about one oil being so much better than
another oil is just plain silly??!!
Click to expand...
 
quote:
Originally posted by yankees1:
I know people who have smoked several packs of cigarettes daily and have still lived into their upper eighties without developing cancer or heart problems. Does that mean smoking is safe for everyone? Maybe smoking is good for you!
Click to expand...
This is a very realistic point of view.
wink.gif
 
quote:
Originally posted by yankees1:
I know people who have smoked several packs of cigarettes daily and have still lived into their upper eighties without developing cancer or heart problems. Does that mean smoking is safe for everyone? Maybe smoking is good for you!
quote:
Originally posted by flinter:
In 1985, I brought a new Ford Tempo. Since money was
tight for me back than, I used Shop Rite brand
10W-30 oil (Shop Rite is a grocery store chain)
for most of the life on the car. I got 192,000 miles
out of that car with NO engines/transmission problems at ALL! Nothing! And this was some no name
gorcery store oil!!

Ya know, doesnt that just go to show you that this
oil debate about one oil being so much better than
another oil is just plain silly??!!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Good point.
This is why today's science is not about anegdotes and is all about representative samples and statistics.

The discussion like this proves nothing.
 
I just switched from Havoline dino to M1 EP because oil is NOT oil. I like the Havoline (in fact, I believe it's one of the best dinos available), however I switched because I'm looking to double my OCI's. That's where the big difference lies.
 
quote:
Originally posted by bottgers:
I just switched from Havoline dino to M1 EP because oil is NOT oil. I like the Havoline (in fact, I believe it's one of the best dinos available), however I switched because I'm looking to double my OCI's. That's where the big difference lies.
Click to expand...
Make sure you get a UOA at 15k!
shocked.gif


I'll love to see it..

Bill
biggthumbcoffe.gif
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bill in Utah:

quote:
Originally posted by bottgers:
I just switched from Havoline dino to M1 EP because oil is NOT oil. I like the Havoline (in fact, I believe it's one of the best dinos available), however I switched because I'm looking to double my OCI's. That's where the big difference lies.
Click to expand...
Make sure you get a UOA at 15k!
shocked.gif


I'll love to see it..

Bill
biggthumbcoffe.gif

Click to expand...
Now, now Bill, you know we see a fair number of nice UOA at or around 15k miles. As a matter of fact, there's a nice 15k mile UOA on the first page of our UOA section right now. See it here.
cheers.gif
 
I've been running 15,000 mile/1 year OCI's with Amsoil since 1978 (about 600k total miles) and haven't come close to wearing out an engine. Even changes ever 5k with conventional lubes, as opposed to every 3k, is a complete waste of time and resources, IMHO. With my turbocharged Audi I'm able to run 10k intervals with plenty of safety margin, as evidenced by multiple analyses.

Todays petroleum oil are better than ever, but so are todays top tier, extended drain synlubes.

TS
 
quote:
Originally posted by ekpolk:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill in Utah:

quote:
Originally posted by bottgers:
I just switched from Havoline dino to M1 EP because oil is NOT oil. I like the Havoline (in fact, I believe it's one of the best dinos available), however I switched because I'm looking to double my OCI's. That's where the big difference lies.
Click to expand...
Make sure you get a UOA at 15k!
shocked.gif


I'll love to see it..

Bill
biggthumbcoffe.gif

Click to expand...
Now, now Bill, you know we see a fair number of nice UOA at or around 15k miles. As a matter of fact, there's a nice 15k mile UOA on the first page of our UOA section right now. See it here.
cheers.gif

Click to expand...
He drives a 1ZZFe Corolla and we all know how twin cam chain driven 3k all time 4 cyl motors do to oil.

Since I have the same engine I'd like to see what $20-$30 worth of oil does.

We had a discussion on him going to Syn on this board and Edmunds.

I'd just like to see it. Going from conventional 7.5k to 15k syn OCI first time out.
cheers.gif


What filter are you going to use for 15k?

Should be interesting.
dunno.gif


The UOA on the BMW link was 5w-40 too. He is going with 5w-30.


Take care, Bill
biggthumbcoffe.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
Clearing up common misconceptions with Oil weights
Replies
1
Views
794
Jetronic
S
Lancer Evo IV Oil?
Replies
5
Views
223
Bullwinkle007
D
Oil experts, please share your knowledge.
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
kschachn
Z
Motor Oil for 2024 Subaru BRZ
2 3
Replies
51
Views
3K
zeroptzero
Nuclear_42
L84 5.3 DFM GM Oil Choices
2
Replies
28
Views
4K
z71offroader83
Back
Top Bottom