OIl for Kia/Hyundai 2.0T Direct-Injection

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I haven't seen any evidence that a NOACK percentage difference of a couple of percent makes any measureable difference to intake track and valve deposits but if it makes you feel like you're making an effort then go for an oil with a NOACK under 10%. .

But it's a double whammy because to make higher VI index oils, blenders often lower the base oil viscosity and increase the amount of polymeric VIIs. Higher volatility and more VIIs result and are both contributors to DI intake deposits. Between a 10% a 12% NOACK volatility, the latter has a 20 % increase in amount of oil lost to evaporation in that test. That's a lot and there are much bigger differences in NOACK volatility in current synthetic oils than that.

 

[LineArrayNut]

Originally Posted By: TJPark01
Is Hyundai/Kia back dooring the use of synthetic oil in the 2.0T for optimal performance?


yep, and the claim that it'll run and run hard w/87 octane is true, as long as you put up with pulling timing and eroded electrodes.

 

[vinu_neuro]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I haven't seen any evidence that a NOACK percentage difference of a couple of percent makes any measureable difference to intake track and valve deposits but if it makes you feel like you're making an effort then go for an oil with a NOACK under 10%. .

But it's a double whammy because to make higher VI index oils, blenders often lower the base oil viscosity and increase the amount of polymeric VIIs. Higher volatility and more VIIs result and are both contributors to DI intake deposits. Between a 10% a 12% NOACK volatility, the latter has a 20 % increase in amount of oil lost to evaporation in that test. That's a lot and there are much bigger differences in NOACK volatility in current synthetic oils than that.


Shell/Pennzoil agrees about VII, not about noack. Not sure about their blanket recommendation to go for a narrow span product though. The guy with the A6 that was getting misfires every 1k miles after intake valve cleaning had 3-4 times better success with M1 0W-40 (4k miles between cleaning/misfires) than anything else, including TDT which is low-ash. There are products like M1 0W-40 out there that use base oils that don't need much VII's or use high quality ones.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/pennzoil-ultra-qa/

Quote:
Oil volatility is not a significant factor for inlet valve deposits in a direct injection gasoline engine. The significant factor is viscosity modifier type and concentration, so using fully synthetic narrow span viscosity grades such as 5W-20 is beneficial. In North America, there is no specification calling for NOACK of less than 10%. The most important thing for DI engines is engine design, to better prevent deposits on ITV’s (In Take Valves), since there is no fuel wash as in PFI (Port Fuel Injection) engines.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: TJPark01
What is odd is that the company specs 5-30 or 5-40 oil for this car, but it also notes:
Quote:
For improved vehicle performance, it is recommended to use the
engine oil of a viscosity grade SAE 5W-40(API SM / ILSAC GF-4).

With that being said...Try searching for a conventional motor oil in 5W-40 viscosity.


I'd also be interested in seeing an ILSAC GF-4 5w-40. If someone has such a thing, please provide us a picture, particularly with Bigfoot and an alien holding the bottle, while riding the Loch Ness monster.

 

[vinu_neuro]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: TJPark01
What is odd is that the company specs 5-30 or 5-40 oil for this car, but it also notes:
Quote:
For improved vehicle performance, it is recommended to use the
engine oil of a viscosity grade SAE 5W-40(API SM / ILSAC GF-4).

With that being said...Try searching for a conventional motor oil in 5W-40 viscosity.


I'd also be interested in seeing an ILSAC GF-4 5w-40. If someone has such a thing, please provide us a picture, particularly with Bigfoot and an alien holding the bottle, while riding the Loch Ness monster.



It's not possible for a 40wt to meet ILSAC. Even a 0W-30 like GC doesn't qualify.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Originally Posted By: JAG
But it's a double whammy because to make higher VI index oils, blenders often lower the base oil viscosity and increase the amount of polymeric VIIs. Higher volatility and more VIIs result and are both contributors to DI intake deposits. Between a 10% a 12% NOACK volatility, the latter has a 20 % increase in amount of oil lost to evaporation in that test. That's a lot and there are much bigger differences in NOACK volatility in current synthetic oils than that.

Shell/Pennzoil agrees about VII, not about noack.

I only disagree with the Pennzoil authors of the FAQ because I saw test data supporting volatility being a factor. Here are some results: http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/8017565.html
At the end it states:
"Comparing the results of Examples A and B shows that, at the same level of ashless organic friction modifiers, increase in Noack volatility in moving from Example A to Example B has given rise to deterioration in performance."

 

[semaj281]

Originally Posted By: poiuy223
Mine always turns black and rather quickly too. I've tried a few oils..

M1 5w-30
M1 0w-40
M1 5w-40 TDT
PU 5w-30
PU 5w-40

Out of them all, only PU 5w-40 didn't turn black as fast. I don't remember my oil smelling like gasoline though. But then again, I drive enough hwy miles every day to burn off fuel dilution.

Frosty, I'll be doing some UOAs soon too. First one will be the current 0w-40 that's about to hit 5k. Then I'm going to run PU 5w-30 and get that checked.

I'm tempted to try PYB 5w-30 and see how Dino performs...even though it is rather scary to use Dino in a turbo.

I would not run a dino 5w-30 in that DI engine. They're known to shear to a 20w after the first few thousand miles, which is fine if your engine calls for a 20w but it does not. If cost is an issue and you must run dino, I'd try something with a lower VI, like a 10w-30.
But I would stick with the PU since it seems to work for you. You might try Rotella T6 if you feel like experimenting.

 

[PZR2874]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: poiuy223
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You definitely need a catch can on both sides of the intake.

Just wondering where you drew this conclusion?

PRZ, what's PU German Synthetic? Did you mean PU euro formula?





He probably meant the German Castrol.



http://www.pennzoil.com/#/motor-oil/pennzoil-ultra-euro/

Sorry, Euro


Actually, I thing blocking off the EGR helps more than the CC's do.

Then again, I don't get any blow-by. The early Speeds had issues with the PCV system but have since fixed it.

 

[PZR2874]

Originally Posted By: semaj281
Originally Posted By: poiuy223
Mine always turns black and rather quickly too. I've tried a few oils..

M1 5w-30
M1 0w-40
M1 5w-40 TDT
PU 5w-30
PU 5w-40

Out of them all, only PU 5w-40 didn't turn black as fast. I don't remember my oil smelling like gasoline though. But then again, I drive enough hwy miles every day to burn off fuel dilution.

Frosty, I'll be doing some UOAs soon too. First one will be the current 0w-40 that's about to hit 5k. Then I'm going to run PU 5w-30 and get that checked.

I'm tempted to try PYB 5w-30 and see how Dino performs...even though it is rather scary to use Dino in a turbo.

I would not run a dino 5w-30 in that DI engine. They're known to shear to a 20w after the first few thousand miles, which is fine if your engine calls for a 20w but it does not. If cost is an issue and you must run dino, I'd try something with a lower VI, like a 10w-30.
But I would stick with the PU since it seems to work for you. You might try Rotella T6 if you feel like experimenting.


I would normally agree with you on the not running 5w-30. But like I've stated in other DI'd threads, just change your oil every 3K-3500.... PU or otherwise.

On the Rotella end, I tried that over a year ago (since I used it religiously with my Subies) but my car didn't like the 5-40 AT ALL (felt sluggish right out of my garage).

 

[semaj281]

Originally Posted By: PZR2874

I would normally agree with you on the not running 5w-30. But like I've stated in other DI'd threads, just change your oil every 3K-3500.... PU or otherwise.

On the Rotella end, I tried that over a year ago (since I used it religiously with my Subies) but my car didn't like the 5-40 AT ALL (felt sluggish right out of my garage).

Yeah, the only reason I mentioned Rotella was because someone posted about the 5w-40 recommendation from Hyundai.

 

[poiuy223]

Originally Posted By: semaj281
Originally Posted By: poiuy223
Mine always turns black and rather quickly too. I've tried a few oils..

M1 5w-30
M1 0w-40
M1 5w-40 TDT
PU 5w-30
PU 5w-40

Out of them all, only PU 5w-40 didn't turn black as fast. I don't remember my oil smelling like gasoline though. But then again, I drive enough hwy miles every day to burn off fuel dilution.

Frosty, I'll be doing some UOAs soon too. First one will be the current 0w-40 that's about to hit 5k. Then I'm going to run PU 5w-30 and get that checked.

I'm tempted to try PYB 5w-30 and see how Dino performs...even though it is rather scary to use Dino in a turbo.

I would not run a dino 5w-30 in that DI engine. They're known to shear to a 20w after the first few thousand miles, which is fine if your engine calls for a 20w but it does not. If cost is an issue and you must run dino, I'd try something with a lower VI, like a 10w-30.
But I would stick with the PU since it seems to work for you. You might try Rotella T6 if you feel like experimenting.


I only wanted to experiment with dino since that's what dealers are using...and see an UOA result with it. But that thought does scare me. My dealer told me my turbo doesn't need synthetic and the oil they use (which is 99.9% dino) can go up to 5k miles. PFFTTTT!!!

I haven't gotten around to trying T6 yet but that should happen fairly soon.

 

[poiuy223]

Don't mean to hijack this thread but since we're on the topic...

My next OCI is coming soon (hopefully during the weekend if I can manage to get my B_S kit in time) and I'll be using the M1 AFE 0w-30. Figured why not since winter is here.. Think this oil would be problematic in shearing too much?

I'm praying that my current 0w-40 UOA would turn out OK.

 

[TJPark01]

Originally Posted By: poiuy223
Don't mean to hijack this thread but since we're on the topic...

My next OCI is coming soon (hopefully during the weekend if I can manage to get my B_S kit in time) and I'll be using the M1 AFE 0w-30. Figured why not since winter is here.. Think this oil would be problematic in shearing too much?

I'm praying that my current 0w-40 UOA would turn out OK.

Winter in LA...It's 75 outside right now. I think 0w-30 afe and 0w-40 are both going to be fine in this engine.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: poiuy223
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You definitely need a catch can on both sides of the intake.

Just wondering where you drew this conclusion?



From experience with a motor that does not goes the valves washed by fuel.

And my current car is a 2L Hyundai turbo but not DI.

If the can is big enough and ideally in a cool location it will trap most of the oil vapors and condense them out.

On the turbo side you need one in the PCV ventilation hose that goes to the valve cover as this is under slight pressure to the pre turbo intake. A can here will keep it out of the turbo and the Inter Cooler.

 

[RedHotOptima]

Hey guys another 2.0T owner here (11' Optima SX), long time BITOG reader and 1st time poster.

poiuy223,
Did you get your UOA back?

I changed the factory fill at 1350 miles due to it be very black and smelled of fuel.. Figured the filter might be pretty clogged as well from the break-in. I didn't like the fact dino was in there with the turbo (yea yea, oem put it in..must be fine right?

)..The first change I put in M1 0W-40 for reasons discussed:

full syn
good add pack
spec is 30/40 and its a "light" 40.. check
SN rating.. check
ILSAC gf-4/5.. not possible in 40wt..
not low but mid SAP levels @ 1.3%
Mid/Good Noack @ 9% (8.8% ive seen reported)

After about 2500 miles on this 1st round of m1 0w-40 I noticed is was darkened again and had a fuel smell again. No oil consumption based on the dip stick and I wouldnt expect it at only 2500 miles.(however I've read that fuel dilution can actually raise the level some?..the thought being that while oil can experience blow-by the same or more fuel can be diluted/absorbed. I believe I read this on audizine and the FSI threads?.. Users experience a raise in oil level and fuel dilution of course.)
Anyway, I changed it due to slight brown/black and the smell.

Now I'm nearing 3000 miles on the 2nd round of M1 0w-40. Its color is better but still brown, and the fuel smell is still there but much less pungent. My theory is that for one-I've been driving more HWY miles..two, My engine is now seating better via the break-in process so I'm experiencing less blow-by and dilution. What are your thoughts?

I am currently waiting on a Blackstone kit and will change the oil in the next week or so for a sample. I'll be putting M1 0w-40 in again and will prob. test that as well to get at least a trend of 2 back-to-back.

Oh and I'll be adding 2 Oil Catch Can's soon as well. You sonata guys should check out our threads on optimaforums for the OCC we have "designed" for our engine bays.

 

[RedHotOptima]

Originally Posted By: LineArrayNut
Originally Posted By: TJPark01
Is Hyundai/Kia back dooring the use of synthetic oil in the 2.0T for optimal performance?


yep, and the claim that it'll run and run hard w/87 octane is true, as long as you put up with pulling timing and eroded electrodes.

Not trying to hijack but can't let you go on that lol..
Eroded electrodes? Please explain.
And the cars are timed for 87 octane and "only" 9.5:1 compression, you talking about heat soak and timing being pulled? putting in 93 is a band aid for that.. get a FMIC to solve. (assuming you are tracking, really only when you'll see heat soak unless you race to work and the grocery store

)

 

[LineArrayNut]

The stock airbox is pretty efficient. I already have a small FMIC stock, lol! Nameless says their intake is better, but requires their HUGE FMIC and exhaust mods to really show gains. They had a 2.0T in their shop that was being run hard on 87 and showed sparkplug tip erosion as the ECU only pulls timing when it hears knock.

http://namelessperformance.com/product-development/dyno-time-2011-kia-optima-turbo-horsepower/

You forgot to add 17.6 pounds of boost on top of that 9.5 CR


Originally Posted By: RedHotOptima
Originally Posted By: LineArrayNut
Originally Posted By: TJPark01
Is Hyundai/Kia back dooring the use of synthetic oil in the 2.0T for optimal performance?


yep, and the claim that it'll run and run hard w/87 octane is true, as long as you put up with pulling timing and eroded electrodes.

Not trying to hijack but can't let you go on that lol..
Eroded electrodes? Please explain.
And the cars are timed for 87 octane and "only" 9.5:1 compression, you talking about heat soak and timing being pulled? putting in 93 is a band aid for that.. get a FMIC to solve. (assuming you are tracking, really only when you'll see heat soak unless you race to work and the grocery store

)

 

[LineArrayNut]

http://www.hyundai-forums.com/230-sonata-yf-turbo/127515-musings-about-premium-gas.html

 

[RedHotOptima]

Alright , I wish I could have he last 20 minutes of my life back lol.

Read the threads and heres my take:
-Only Nameless (a mod manufacturer) and a few others with their butt dyno (highly accurate

) and their MPG (never varies does it ) say that premium will be better for the engine. EVERYONE else in the thread with obvious knowledge was against premium as hurting the engine.
-ONLY Nameless has evidence of corroded plugs in a 2.0t, which they admit in stating it may have other issues. Doh!
-They noted one of testers plugs was actually completely worn, DOH! ..wonder why they had 80-100 less HP than the reportED 274, lol(again, car had problems which is why the guy wanted to get bolt on mods and didnt mind being a test dummy)
-They're dyno runs mention heat soak, which of course will happen when the car isn't moving. We have ram air intake for a reason, for when moving!
-No equal dyno tests have been done to prove timing being pulled on 87v91/93.. Cute how they say they will test them side by side months ago, and still nothing! lol
-The engine was designed for 46 months and tuned for 87, it does not listening for knock and THEN time to its best advance point like Jason/John and Nameless says. 87 is the starting point to adjust timing, putting 93 in will not advance you much farther if at all, we need a reflash tune to allow that. (cross your fingers

)
-Other dynos have been done of the 2.0T and one was even referenced in that thread. It produced 234 HP at wheels on 87, not 150 like nameless' problem 2.0T which probabkly didnt use SAE correction either lol... Expect about 15% loss thru the auto trans, so 274 HP sae crank = 232.9 HP sae at wheels.. Sounds right!
-Final point: The recommendation for a fuel additive is to keep the injectors clean if users are buying cheapo gas. If you buy 87 Top Tier you should be fine. If you still worry then use Techron Concentrate like once or twice a year and you'll be golden... The statement on fuel additive is not an admission by the manufacturer to use higher octane. Its an admission that US gas sucks and you might get clogged injectors if you don't use a maintenance additive once in a while.

 

[91344George]

Remember that although Hyundai specs 87, the ECU CAN handle 93 and will perform just a tiny bit better, not enough to make any seat of the pants change though.

Using 93 will NOT damage your engine or negatively affect it in ANY way. The ECU assures that with the mapping it uses.

Just about any car made in the past 10-14 years or so can use any widely available grade octane of gas with NO detrimental effects to the engine. Usually you will only notice a tiny increase or decrease in responsiveness depending on octane grade.