Oil Filter......Flow vs. Filtration?

[Cooper]

So, both of the cars use OEM oil filters....

I have about 8 years worth of both.

Honda Filtech 15400-PLM-A01 and Subaru Tokyo Roki 15208AA160.

I have a few others as well....Fram Ultra, PureOne, etc....whatever the flavor of the month on here was.

The more I test these filters, the more I like the OEM flow over filtration. I find that I have less start up noise and more of a free revving engine with the OEM over the less flow, more filtration filters. I also think more flow will cause less wear at startup especially since the engine is not starved because of a lower flow filter.

I really don't think that 99.99999% filtration is necessary when it comes to the particle size that these filters are filtering. (I know it is an exaggeration)

I am also comparing filters with the right specs, ADBV design, etc... If all things are equal except for the filter media, which is more important, flow vs. filtration in your opinion?

What are your thoughts?

I am leaning toward flow.....

 

[Brian123]

Flow

 

[Lead Shoes]

It's more beneficial to have the proper amount of oil flowing with some debris in it then not enough oil but with less debris.

 

[Cooper]

All of the hype around Fram Ultra with it's restricted flow and ultra filtration......I have one on the Civic now. I don't like the way it runs with it compared to the OEM Filtech filter. I will be using OEM next time around.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Go study up on positive displacement oil pumps and you'll realize that the engine gets all the flow volume the pump can put out unless the engine is revving near redline and the oil is cold and thick.

The oil flow through an engine's oiling system is not like the flow out of a garden hose where the volume is dependent on the supply pressure and the resistance of the plumbing and hose. The only time that could happen is when the oil pump has hit the pressure relief point controlled by the pressure relief valve. Any time the pump's output pressure is below that point, all the volume coming out of the pump goes through the filter and engine's oil system.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Cooper

The more I test these filters, the more I like the OEM flow over filtration. I find that I have less start up noise and more of a free revving engine with the OEM over the less flow, more filtration filters.


The less start-up noise is most likey due to the ADBV working better on the filter that you think makes less start-up noise.

Originally Posted By: Cooper

I also think more flow will cause less wear at startup especially since the engine is not starved because of a lower flow filter.


The only way the engine can "starve" for oil on a cold start-up is if the ADBV leaked and drained all the oil from the supply galleries and filter. With a positive displacement oil pump, if the system remains full you are getting the same oil flow into the engine regardless what filter you are using.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Cooper
All of the hype around Fram Ultra with it's restricted flow and ultra filtration....


Those filters are not restrictive enough to make an engine even notice or run any differently ... unless your oil pump is completely shot.

 

[Cooper]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Cooper

The more I test these filters, the more I like the OEM flow over filtration. I find that I have less start up noise and more of a free revving engine with the OEM over the less flow, more filtration filters.


The less start-up noise is most likey due to the ADBV working better on the filter that you think makes less start-up noise.

Originally Posted By: Cooper

I also think more flow will cause less wear at startup especially since the engine is not starved because of a lower flow filter.


The only way the engine can "starve" for oil on a cold start-up is if the ADBV leaked and drained all the oil from the supply galleries and filter. With a positive displacement oil pump, if the system remains full you are getting the same oil flow into the engine regardless what filter you are using.


Well, I do get more start up noise with the Fram Ultra on the Civic.....maybe just a defective ADBV on the Fram Ultra?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Cooper
Well, I do get more start up noise with the Fram Ultra on the Civic.....maybe just a defective ADBV on the Fram Ultra?


Most likely that's the issue. Is it only after is sits all night? How about when starting 10 ~ 15 min after shutdown?

Here's a test for you to try:
Start the car with cold oil and let it run a couple of minutes. Shut it off, and let it sit just 10 min. Restart ... does it make noise? If it doesn't then, but does after it sits all night, then it's a leaky ADBV.

 

[FetchFar]

I don't think you need to choose between flow and filtration if there are two paths the oil takes through the filter: One path goes through a 50 micron section, and the other parallel path goes through a 6 micron section. Microgreen.com filters are the only ones I know that have that for cars. (apart from FleetGaurd Stratapures for HD trucks). Microgreen doesn't make the sizes I need.

If not a parallel path filter, then the oil filters that blend in glass fibers into the cellulose offer more filtration at the same pressure drop compared to the cheapest paper-only filters.

 

[Cooper]

I have only noticed it after it has been sitting for a while.

 

[fdcg27]

My understanding is that even the most restrictive oil filter is only a minor source of restriction in the oiling circuit.
If too much flow restriction at the filter results in too great a pressure drop across the filter, it'll just go into bypass.
Japanese OEM filters do favor flow over efficiency.
These filters probably spend less time in bypass than do those with greater efficiency.
It may be that the Japanese designers figure that full time filtration of forty micron particles is more useful than part time filtration of twenty micron particles.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Cooper
I have only noticed it after it has been sitting for a while.


Leaky ADBV.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Japanese OEM filters do favor flow over efficiency.
These filters probably spend less time in bypass than do those with greater efficiency.
It may be that the Japanese designers figure that full time filtration of forty micron particles is more useful than part time filtration of twenty micron particles.


Most Japanese auto makers also recommend using the oil filter for 2x OCIs, so that may be part of the reason they don't make them very efficient and more free flowing.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
My understanding is that even the most restrictive oil filter is only a minor source of restriction in the oiling circuit.


Typically, the engine's oiling system is 15 times more restrictive to oil flow than an oil filter.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
These filters probably spend less time in bypass than do those with greater efficiency. It may be that the Japanese designers figure that full time filtration of forty micron particles is more useful than part time filtration of twenty micron particles.

There are a number of things at play here.

The standard beta test is conducted with special media of known size, known make-up, at a standard temperature, at a steady flow rate.

In the real world particles are of all sorts of sizes, various make-ups from bits of silica to gasket material to ingested microscopic detritus, at all sorts of temperatures, and with ongoing surges and ebbs.

The standard beta tests really don't correlate well with actual field tests.

For one example, the efficiency of many filters actual increases in use as particles block the larger openings in the filter media.

Laboratory tests are one bit of data to consider, but those tests are not the entire story. Use in the engine over time and a thorough oil analysis is the final judge of whether a filter is doing its job.

 

[Cooper]

It is mounted upside down, that doesn't make a lot of sense being a leaky ADBV.

 

[fdcg27]

OTOH, any more efficient higher tier filter is typically rated for the equivalent of two typical OCIs in miles.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D

The standard beta tests really don't correlate well with actual field tests.


There's no way they could easily obtain the same beta test data in the field unless they instrumented a filter in use with the same test setup as the IOS beta test done in the lab.

Therefore, your statement makes no sense because there is not in field use beta test data to compare to determine if there is a real correlation or not to the advertised betas obtained in the lab.

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: Cooper
So, both of the cars use OEM oil filters....

I have about 8 years worth of both.

Honda Filtech 15400-PLM-A01 and Subaru Tokyo Roki 15208AA160.

I have a few others as well....Fram Ultra, PureOne, etc....whatever the flavor of the month on here was.

The more I test these filters, the more I like the OEM flow over filtration. I find that I have less start up noise and more of a free revving engine with the OEM over the less flow, more filtration filters. I also think more flow will cause less wear at startup especially since the engine is not starved because of a lower flow filter.

I really don't think that 99.99999% filtration is necessary when it comes to the particle size that these filters are filtering. (I know it is an exaggeration)

I am also comparing filters with the right specs, ADBV design, etc... If all things are equal except for the filter media, which is more important, flow vs. filtration in your opinion?

What are your thoughts?

I am leaning toward flow.....


Agree with you... FLOW.

I had a 97 Buick Lesabre V6 3800 Series II and when I used a PUREONE Oil filter the Oil Pressure gauge moved around all the time.. at IDLE it was near the RED.... but Not on RED.

When I used A/C Delco the Oil Pressure stayed perfect in the middle at IDLE or while driving.. stop or go or on HIGHWAY.