Oil filter bypass

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Or how about the Purolators, or Champs, or yada yada yada that have torn and have allowed things big enough to get caught with a spaghetti strainer thru? Where are all those failed engines?? For all the torn filters this board has seen, NONE have had an engine failure to post about. That seems like a pretty big gap between your expectation and reality, don't you think?
......... the difference in engine lifetimes regardless of filter brand or oil (syn or conventional) is so small it is statistically insignificant.



You are also forgetting to mention the millions of Type 1 VW engines that have driven millions and millions and millions of miles
using an "oil filter" (

)
that looks exactly like ..... Window screen.

Yes - - - - SCREEN!!! These engines have no oil filter at all. Just a piece of screen with holes so large that fleas can fit right through easily.

How come those engines don't explode after just a few thousand miles?

 

[Pinoak]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Or how about the Purolators, or Champs, or yada yada yada that have torn and have allowed things big enough to get caught with a spaghetti strainer thru? Where are all those failed engines?? For all the torn filters this board has seen, NONE have had an engine failure to post about. That seems like a pretty big gap between your expectation and reality, don't you think?
......... the difference in engine lifetimes regardless of filter brand or oil (syn or conventional) is so small it is statistically insignificant.



You are also forgetting to mention the millions of Type 1 VW engines that have driven millions and millions and millions of miles
using an "oil filter" (

)
that looks exactly like ..... Window screen.

Yes - - - - SCREEN!!! These engines have no oil filter at all. Just a piece of screen with holes so large that fleas can fit right through easily.

How come those engines don't explode after just a few thousand miles?

Those were great little cars. Maybe the easiest car to work on ever made but let's be honest. How many miles did they last before needing a rebuild?
A million mile would be a lot more impressive if it didn't need a rebuild 8 times.
We don't do alot o rebuilding these days. Especially with our little gas sippers because it's not so simple now days.

 

[dnewton3]

This is all good conversation.

Now - show me that it matters. In real life, show me that the things like BP position, end caps, spring type, efficiency and such matter. Show me relevant data that allows us to conclude that all these things actually manifest into a difference in wear data.

I'll even stack the deck in your favor for those who believe these things are relevant ...
Take a low priced filter with a nitrile ADBV, and a dome end BP, with fiber end caps, a leaf-spring compression system, and a moderate efficiency (say 85%). Run some UOAs with this type filter at 7.5k miles each.
Next take a top-line filter with silicone ADBV, a base BP, metal end caps, coil spring compression, a 99% efficient. Run some more UOAs with this type filter at 7.5k miles each.

I'll bet your dime to my dollar that you'll never be able to distinguish the differences in wear control, even when stacking all the "benefits" into one filter and stripping them from another, because the "normal" variation of wear from daily operation and mechanical events will far surpass any ability to discern which filter is which from the wear metals.

When you can prove, with real data, using true controlled methodology, that these things matter, I'll sit up and take notice.

 

[Bill_W]

Well flow rate, filtration efficiency, can be tested.

UOA can be tested.

Each has a separate part, but over and under maintaining your vehicle has a bigger part IMO.

Whoever perceived one oil or one filter, UOA or over or under manitanence is an individual's way of feeling warm and fuzzy. So each is a choice unique. I perceive that change in filter design is around the corner. Not that it will make too much difference in reality. The Motorcraft filter can be bought pretty cheap, the Napa gold fairly cheap. But what sells these two is that bypass valve. Makes some people warm and fuzzy.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Not sure if the oil is supposed to be soaked up with a towel or something else when the filter is changed.

Old trick that works well ... punch a hole in the top of the filter, which will drain the filter and you won't have a mess when removing it.
There is no oil in that filter after about 1/2 hour. Changed a few in the past 5 years. That catch cup invites sand and grit. Not the best layout SUBARU.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I get deep engine knock in the winter with these small high efficiency filters. Biggest problems I've had in the past decade. Time to make the filter LAGER than a fuel filter.

BTW the dome end (a great place for debris to collect) will get washed out on a dome end bypass if its oriented dome DOWN from 180 horizontal to normal. does it matter? A little bearing streak? NBo Biggie

HLA ? maybe. Most of my cars haven't had HLA. Only Inverted buckets with shims. Solid cam.

My VW now has HLA but it's a lease so .... Que sera' sera'

Wife's Subi has HLA. Who cares it the wife's car - she pays for it

 

[zorobabel]

What about side mounted filters? I would say the thread end bypass has the edge.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
This is all good conversation.

Now - show me that it matters. In real life, show me that the things like BP position, end caps, spring type, efficiency and such matter. Show me relevant data that allows us to conclude that all these things actually manifest into a difference in wear data.

I'll even stack the deck in your favor for those who believe these things are relevant ...
Take a low priced filter with a nitrile ADBV, and a dome end BP, with fiber end caps, a leaf-spring compression system, and a moderate efficiency (say 85%). Run some UOAs with this type filter at 7.5k miles each.
Next take a top-line filter with silicone ADBV, a base BP, metal end caps, coil spring compression, a 99% efficient. Run some more UOAs with this type filter at 7.5k miles each.

I'll bet your dime to my dollar that you'll never be able to distinguish the differences in wear control, even when stacking all the "benefits" into one filter and stripping them from another, because the "normal" variation of wear from daily operation and mechanical events will far surpass any ability to discern which filter is which from the wear metals.

When you can prove, with real data, using true controlled methodology, that these things matter, I'll sit up and take notice.


I don't know if using a UOA is really the right tool for this ... but instead ISO particle count data is more relevant IMO. The best tool would to be to conduct a fired engine wear test with irradiated parts to measure real time running wear levels like some SAE studies have done with analyzing engine wear vs oil viscosity/HTHS performance.

Who here can prove that cleaner oil doesn't result in less wear. I'd like to know the physical mechanism that is supposedly taking place when more contaminated oil is not result in more wear - regardless of how small a wear level difference. IMO, just knowing the oil is being kept cleaner is good enough evidence to me that it could matter in the long run.

As posted before, some graphed UOA PC data from a couple members here posted in the UOA forum showing the PC for a filter rated at 99% @ 20u vs a filter rated at 50% @ 20u. Clearly, there is noticeable difference in the cleanliness level of the oil - a level about 10 times cleaner for most of the particle range shown.

Machinery Lubrication magazine has quite a few articles that always conclude that cleaner oil (a better ISO cleanliness code) results in less machinery wear, and there are all kinds of other studies like the SAE Bus Study and this paper I've linked below that all conclude that cleaner oil always results in less engine wear. That's all I need to know. Using high efficiency oil filters isn't going to cause me any grief what so ever in my goal of trying to keep the oil as clean as possible. If someone thinks it's not going to matter to them then that's all great ... anyone can use whatever they want based on their own knowledge/beliefs.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.404.5830&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Go here (Machinery Lubrication website) and search for "engine wear" and "oil cleanliness" in the search line in the upper RH corner.
https://www.machinerylubrication.com