Speaking of group III oils, I just bout some QuakerState UD 10w30 at Walmart for a decent price. Later I checked on line and the oil has a pour point of -51 deg IIRC. Much lower than the DEXOS 1 5w30. What's up here?
Oil Change Shop Fraud: Conventional instead of Syn
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ARCO, if you want another head scratcher, take a look at the flashpoint of Formula Shell Synthetic 5w-30. Is it a mistake, or do we have another ringer?
I wonder if that one employee is still in the restroom hiding.
I own the test lab that performed the analysis for KXAN. We don't do used oil analysis like Blackstone - we work only on new oils with the lubricant manufacturers. I can give you some additional background on how the testing was performed. It is correct that the typical used oil analysis won't reveal whether the oil is conventional or synthetic. However, we performed two tests that together can show the difference in most cases.
The first test was an FTIR (fourier transform infrared spectroscopy) scan. This shows characteristic peaks at certain wavelengths of light when chemical bonds are excited by the IR light. We ran the IR scan on the oil from the vehicle and compared it with a scan of the oil that was supposed to have been put in the car. Mobil 1, in particular, uses a unique antioxidant package that can be clearly seen by FTIR compared with other products. Since the shop was claiming to use Mobil 1, that made it pretty easy to detect.
The other test we ran was to test viscosity at 40c and 100c and calculate the viscosity index (VI). Synthetic oils have a significantly higher VI than conventional oils. Again, we tested the VI of the subject oil and the claimed packaged brand and looked for major differences.
We did a presentation at the 2015 STLE meeting in Dallas which is still available on their website if you want to see more information about how this was done.
One of the things in the presentation that wasn't in the TV clip was that we also tested oil from quite a few brand name quick lube places in the Austin area. All of the brand name and franchise stores were doing the right thing. The independent that was interviewed on camera was caught cheating. Another single-location independent had test results that were inconsistent with synthetic oil.
There are at least three industry organizations that self-police the lubricant manufacturers (API, ILMA, and PQIA), but I'm not aware of any that do field audits of quick lube stores. It's unfortunate, because the incentive to cheat is obvious.
The first test was an FTIR (fourier transform infrared spectroscopy) scan. This shows characteristic peaks at certain wavelengths of light when chemical bonds are excited by the IR light. We ran the IR scan on the oil from the vehicle and compared it with a scan of the oil that was supposed to have been put in the car. Mobil 1, in particular, uses a unique antioxidant package that can be clearly seen by FTIR compared with other products. Since the shop was claiming to use Mobil 1, that made it pretty easy to detect.
The other test we ran was to test viscosity at 40c and 100c and calculate the viscosity index (VI). Synthetic oils have a significantly higher VI than conventional oils. Again, we tested the VI of the subject oil and the claimed packaged brand and looked for major differences.
We did a presentation at the 2015 STLE meeting in Dallas which is still available on their website if you want to see more information about how this was done.
One of the things in the presentation that wasn't in the TV clip was that we also tested oil from quite a few brand name quick lube places in the Austin area. All of the brand name and franchise stores were doing the right thing. The independent that was interviewed on camera was caught cheating. Another single-location independent had test results that were inconsistent with synthetic oil.
There are at least three industry organizations that self-police the lubricant manufacturers (API, ILMA, and PQIA), but I'm not aware of any that do field audits of quick lube stores. It's unfortunate, because the incentive to cheat is obvious.
Originally Posted By: AlcorPetrolab
I own the test lab that performed the analysis for KXAN. We don't do used oil analysis like Blackstone - we work only on new oils with the lubricant manufacturers. I can give you some additional background on how the testing was performed. It is correct that the typical used oil analysis won't reveal whether the oil is conventional or synthetic. However, we performed two tests that together can show the difference in most cases.
The first test was an FTIR (fourier transform infrared spectroscopy) scan. This shows characteristic peaks at certain wavelengths of light when chemical bonds are excited by the IR light. We ran the IR scan on the oil from the vehicle and compared it with a scan of the oil that was supposed to have been put in the car. Mobil 1, in particular, uses a unique antioxidant package that can be clearly seen by FTIR compared with other products. Since the shop was claiming to use Mobil 1, that made it pretty easy to detect.
The other test we ran was to test viscosity at 40c and 100c and calculate the viscosity index (VI). Synthetic oils have a significantly higher VI than conventional oils. Again, we tested the VI of the subject oil and the claimed packaged brand and looked for major differences.
We did a presentation at the 2015 STLE meeting in Dallas which is still available on their website if you want to see more information about how this was done.
One of the things in the presentation that wasn't in the TV clip was that we also tested oil from quite a few brand name quick lube places in the Austin area. All of the brand name and franchise stores were doing the right thing. The independent that was interviewed on camera was caught cheating. Another single-location independent had test results that were inconsistent with synthetic oil.
There are at least three industry organizations that self-police the lubricant manufacturers (API, ILMA, and PQIA), but I'm not aware of any that do field audits of quick lube stores. It's unfortunate, because the incentive to cheat is obvious.
Have you done a follow up investigation to see if said company is still ripping off its customers? It would be ideal to find out. If they were, this would shut them down, which is what I think should be done anyway!
I own the test lab that performed the analysis for KXAN. We don't do used oil analysis like Blackstone - we work only on new oils with the lubricant manufacturers. I can give you some additional background on how the testing was performed. It is correct that the typical used oil analysis won't reveal whether the oil is conventional or synthetic. However, we performed two tests that together can show the difference in most cases.
The first test was an FTIR (fourier transform infrared spectroscopy) scan. This shows characteristic peaks at certain wavelengths of light when chemical bonds are excited by the IR light. We ran the IR scan on the oil from the vehicle and compared it with a scan of the oil that was supposed to have been put in the car. Mobil 1, in particular, uses a unique antioxidant package that can be clearly seen by FTIR compared with other products. Since the shop was claiming to use Mobil 1, that made it pretty easy to detect.
The other test we ran was to test viscosity at 40c and 100c and calculate the viscosity index (VI). Synthetic oils have a significantly higher VI than conventional oils. Again, we tested the VI of the subject oil and the claimed packaged brand and looked for major differences.
We did a presentation at the 2015 STLE meeting in Dallas which is still available on their website if you want to see more information about how this was done.
One of the things in the presentation that wasn't in the TV clip was that we also tested oil from quite a few brand name quick lube places in the Austin area. All of the brand name and franchise stores were doing the right thing. The independent that was interviewed on camera was caught cheating. Another single-location independent had test results that were inconsistent with synthetic oil.
There are at least three industry organizations that self-police the lubricant manufacturers (API, ILMA, and PQIA), but I'm not aware of any that do field audits of quick lube stores. It's unfortunate, because the incentive to cheat is obvious.
Have you done a follow up investigation to see if said company is still ripping off its customers? It would be ideal to find out. If they were, this would shut them down, which is what I think should be done anyway!
That first oil change shop is just minutes away from me. heh
KXAN did a follow-up investigation a few months later. Here is a link to the story:
http://kxan.com/2014/12/16/kxan-re-tests-failing-oil-change-shops/
All of the shops that failed the first time around were much more careful the second time around and the test results showed that the oil was in fact synthetic oil the second time around.
http://kxan.com/2014/12/16/kxan-re-tests-failing-oil-change-shops/
All of the shops that failed the first time around were much more careful the second time around and the test results showed that the oil was in fact synthetic oil the second time around.
I don't quite understand why this is a surprise. The thieves advertise plain as day. Those that tease you in with a too-good-to-be-true price and then bait-and-switch you. Them poor fellas NEED to make money somehow. They surely aren't making money on the advertised price. The shop in this video both got the price up and the cost of goods down. Now, that's good money. For a shop to last, it must be profitable and these are long-lasting shops because the advertising works. Even dealer techs will tell you that some (less-scrupulous) dealerships have a special tank for those free oil changes given with new cars. Then, when you start paying, you get top-shelf again.
In general, find a shop with fair pricing and you'll get what you ordered. Find someone competent and honest and STICK with them and then you will not need to change your own oil due to a lack of trust. There are plenty of good guys out there.
In general, find a shop with fair pricing and you'll get what you ordered. Find someone competent and honest and STICK with them and then you will not need to change your own oil due to a lack of trust. There are plenty of good guys out there.
Originally Posted By: AlcorPetrolab
I own the test lab that performed the analysis for KXAN. We don't do used oil analysis like Blackstone - we work only on new oils with the lubricant manufacturers. I can give you some additional background on how the testing was performed. It is correct that the typical used oil analysis won't reveal whether the oil is conventional or synthetic. However, we performed two tests that together can show the difference in most cases.
The first test was an FTIR (fourier transform infrared spectroscopy) scan. This shows characteristic peaks at certain wavelengths of light when chemical bonds are excited by the IR light. We ran the IR scan on the oil from the vehicle and compared it with a scan of the oil that was supposed to have been put in the car. Mobil 1, in particular, uses a unique antioxidant package that can be clearly seen by FTIR compared with other products. Since the shop was claiming to use Mobil 1, that made it pretty easy to detect.
Interesting. I know you have proprietary interests, but I am wondering if this "antioxidant package" will show up in a conventional UOA?
Quote:
One of the things in the presentation that wasn't in the TV clip was that we also tested oil from quite a few brand name quick lube places in the Austin area. All of the brand name and franchise stores were doing the right thing. The independent that was interviewed on camera was caught cheating. Another single-location independent had test results that were inconsistent with synthetic oil.
There are at least three industry organizations that self-police the lubricant manufacturers (API, ILMA, and PQIA), but I'm not aware of any that do field audits of quick lube stores. It's unfortunate, because the incentive to cheat is obvious.
As a former (long time ago) quick lube worker and supervisor, I can say that at a major chain there is little incentive for the average worker to cheat. I certainly always enjoyed making sure people got what they paid for and the company was paying it's fair share, we were under pressure to make sales and increase tickets, so we insured that the company also had its costs increase for materials used. If someone paid for syn, [censored] right I would break out the bottles of beautiful syn and put them in there!..
But yeah, I wouldn't trust some independent operators as far as I could throw them...
I own the test lab that performed the analysis for KXAN. We don't do used oil analysis like Blackstone - we work only on new oils with the lubricant manufacturers. I can give you some additional background on how the testing was performed. It is correct that the typical used oil analysis won't reveal whether the oil is conventional or synthetic. However, we performed two tests that together can show the difference in most cases.
The first test was an FTIR (fourier transform infrared spectroscopy) scan. This shows characteristic peaks at certain wavelengths of light when chemical bonds are excited by the IR light. We ran the IR scan on the oil from the vehicle and compared it with a scan of the oil that was supposed to have been put in the car. Mobil 1, in particular, uses a unique antioxidant package that can be clearly seen by FTIR compared with other products. Since the shop was claiming to use Mobil 1, that made it pretty easy to detect.
Interesting. I know you have proprietary interests, but I am wondering if this "antioxidant package" will show up in a conventional UOA?
Quote:
One of the things in the presentation that wasn't in the TV clip was that we also tested oil from quite a few brand name quick lube places in the Austin area. All of the brand name and franchise stores were doing the right thing. The independent that was interviewed on camera was caught cheating. Another single-location independent had test results that were inconsistent with synthetic oil.
There are at least three industry organizations that self-police the lubricant manufacturers (API, ILMA, and PQIA), but I'm not aware of any that do field audits of quick lube stores. It's unfortunate, because the incentive to cheat is obvious.
As a former (long time ago) quick lube worker and supervisor, I can say that at a major chain there is little incentive for the average worker to cheat. I certainly always enjoyed making sure people got what they paid for and the company was paying it's fair share, we were under pressure to make sales and increase tickets, so we insured that the company also had its costs increase for materials used. If someone paid for syn, [censored] right I would break out the bottles of beautiful syn and put them in there!..
But yeah, I wouldn't trust some independent operators as far as I could throw them...
Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
The sign advertises a Mobil 1 oil change for $29.99 but they charge $89.99?
Fees...
The sign advertises a Mobil 1 oil change for $29.99 but they charge $89.99?
Fees...
The typical used oil analysis (UOA) packages don't include a complete FTIR scan. Some UOA labs use FTIR to estimate oil properties such as fuel dilution and total antioxidant content using ASTM E2412. However, identifying the specific antioxidant peaks from one oil and comparing to a known standard requires a skilled analyst and isn't part of the regular UOA test packages. UOA labs run highly-automated, high-volume, low-price operations. We can't do what they do for the price they can do it, but we can be a lot more creative, flexible and precise, albeit for a higher price.
Originally Posted By: AlcorPetrolab
The typical used oil analysis (UOA) packages don't include a complete FTIR scan. Some UOA labs use FTIR to estimate oil properties such as fuel dilution and total antioxidant content using ASTM E2412. However, identifying the specific antioxidant peaks from one oil and comparing to a known standard requires a skilled analyst and isn't part of the regular UOA test packages. UOA labs run highly-automated, high-volume, low-price operations. We can't do what they do for the price they can do it, but we can be a lot more creative, flexible and precise, albeit for a higher price.
I appreciate this very much, thank you...
The typical used oil analysis (UOA) packages don't include a complete FTIR scan. Some UOA labs use FTIR to estimate oil properties such as fuel dilution and total antioxidant content using ASTM E2412. However, identifying the specific antioxidant peaks from one oil and comparing to a known standard requires a skilled analyst and isn't part of the regular UOA test packages. UOA labs run highly-automated, high-volume, low-price operations. We can't do what they do for the price they can do it, but we can be a lot more creative, flexible and precise, albeit for a higher price.
I appreciate this very much, thank you...
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