Oil advice from Stihl ...

[Japanese]

That would not allow Red Armor as Red Armor is a synthetic blend. Wow, really?

Nobody said that and is not written in the Stihl manual as well.

I'm not interested in what oils run best in 2 cycle machines. Only what runs best in a br800x.

Yes, now we are discussing only the Stihl BR800X 4-MIX blower and try to find the best oil for it. My last two posts are specifically for that machine which runs much low RPM and probably a lot cooler than a regular 2-stroke. You have experimented with thick oils that didn't work out well. I'm suggesting 2-stroke oils with lower flashpoint about 212°F and not higher than 250°F. All the oils you tested so far have much higher flash point than that and that contributes to smoking and not burning clean, especially at lower temps. Matter of fact the Red Armor has low flash point at 164°F.

I asked about your oil mixing procedure because you never mentioned at what ratio did you run any of those oils (Motul 710, 800, Amsoil Saber, VP Racing, what else did you run?) in the BR800. If you run ratios rich oil ratios above 50:1 any oil will get dirty and smelly. I've run the Motul Scooter Expert oil (above) at 50:1 in a 2-stroke bike and you cannot see any smoke even at start up. Yes, that oil is synthetic blend but is also JASO FD / ISO-L-EGD as the Red Armor and that covers your manual.

Also, please tell the moderators to add to your thread title and in your first post that you ask and discuss the Stihl 4-MIX engine BR800, not the Stihl 2-stroke engines.

 

[UNC196]

It seems logical, to set JASO FD as a baseline requirement for 2 stroke. You can get FD rated oils at Home Depot…and I don’t think US Stihl oils meet it?

If we are chasing the “best” oil, it’s been covered….but if you just want a good and easy to source oil, Red Armor will easily run any outdoor power equipment for it’s entire service life. Same with VP.

 

[lilspenny]

Nobody said that and is not written in the Stihl manual as well.


Yes, now we are discussing only the Stihl BR800X 4-MIX blower and try to find the best oil for it. My last two posts are specifically for that machine which runs much low RPM and probably a lot cooler than a regular 2-stroke. You have experimented with thick oils that didn't work out well. I'm suggesting 2-stroke oils with lower flashpoint about 212°F and not higher than 250°F. All the oils you tested so far have much higher flash point than that and that contributes to smoking and not burning clean, especially at lower temps. Matter of fact the Red Armor has low flash point at 164°F.

I asked about your oil mixing procedure because you never mentioned at what ratio did you run any of those oils (Motul 710, 800, Amsoil Saber, VP Racing, what else did you run?) in the BR800. If you run ratios rich oil ratios above 50:1 any oil will get dirty and smelly. I've run the Motul Scooter Expert oil (above) at 50:1 in a 2-stroke bike and you cannot see any smoke even at start up. Yes, that oil is synthetic blend but is also JASO FD / ISO-L-EGD as the Red Armor and that covers your manual.

Also, please tell the moderators to add to your thread title and in your first post that you ask and discuss the Stihl 4-MIX engine BR800, not the Stihl 2-stroke engines.

Nobody said that and is not written in the Stihl manual as well.


Yes, now we are discussing only the Stihl BR800X 4-MIX blower and try to find the best oil for it. My last two posts are specifically for that machine which runs much low RPM and probably a lot cooler than a regular 2-stroke. You have experimented with thick oils that didn't work out well. I'm suggesting 2-stroke oils with lower flashpoint about 212°F and not higher than 250°F. All the oils you tested so far have much higher flash point than that and that contributes to smoking and not burning clean, especially at lower temps. Matter of fact the Red Armor has low flash point at 164°F.

I asked about your oil mixing procedure because you never mentioned at what ratio did you run any of those oils (Motul 710, 800, Amsoil Saber, VP Racing, what else did you run?) in the BR800. If you run ratios rich oil ratios above 50:1 any oil will get dirty and smelly. I've run the Motul Scooter Expert oil (above) at 50:1 in a 2-stroke bike and you cannot see any smoke even at start up. Yes, that oil is synthetic blend but is also JASO FD / ISO-L-EGD as the Red Armor and that covers your manual.

Also, please tell the moderators to add to your thread title and in your first post that you ask and discuss the Stihl 4-MIX engine BR800, not the Stihl 2-stroke engines.

Important to keep in mind that Stihl Ultra runs well in my br800 and has a very high flashpoint of 428°F. It's just dirty. Question for you, Japanese, since you seem quite knowledgeable, why does Stihl recommend Stihl Ultra for the br800? Because it's ashless? I have tested VP with flashpoint 176°F, Honda HP2 flashpoint 221°F, Red Armor 163°F, Maxima K2 flashpoint 252° F, Motorex Crosspower 2T flashpoint 230°F, and Amsoil Dominator flashpoint 201°F. It should be said that HP2 @50:1 stumbles in cooler weather but otherwise is ok. Maxima Super M flashpoint 280°F ran great but dirty, Amsoil Saber flashpoint 356°F runs great and pretty clean @ 50:1 and even cleaner at 64:1. Amsoil Dominator ran as clean as any oil but stumbles a bit flashpoint 201°F. Motul 710 flashpoint 241°F ran "ok"... Not the best, and not as clean as several. Super M Injector, flashpoint 342°F, ran better than any oil, and cleaner than any oil @50:1.... Problem was the engine seized. Warranty replacement. Would 40:1 work better? Probably, but then again my engine seized while running that oil. So, what is the pattern? It is not flashpoint. Various high/low flashpoints work well/work not so well. It's more related to the base oil and somewhat viscosity. Attached are some notes . I have only measured in my garage with outside temp of 60°F. Same spot on muffler for temp. Obviously, runability is of utmost importance and so is muffler temp. Temps were taken at wot at 10 minutes runtime. Scientific? Not really and the only engine inspections were sparkplug, piston crown, rocker arms and valve stems. No real differences between oils on valves. All looked good. The best way to test would be long term with engine teardown. Not ready for that, and may never be. These results were with pump gas 0e 93 octane. Same gas for each oil.

 

[lilspenny]

It seems logical, to set JASO FD as a baseline requirement for 2 stroke. You can get FD rated oils at Home Depot…and I don’t think US Stihl oils meet it?

If we are chasing the “best” oil, it’s been covered….but if you just want a good and easy to source oil, Red Armor will easily run any outdoor power equipment for it’s entire service life. Same with VP.

Yes .. looking for the exceptional oil(s).

 

[Japanese]

So, what is the pattern? It is not flashpoint. It is not flashpoint. Various high/low flashpoints work well/work not so well. It's more related to the base oil and somewhat viscosity. Attached are some notes.

I have only measured in my garage with outside temp of 60°F. Same spot on muffler for temp. Obviously, runability is of utmost importance and so is muffler temp. Temps were taken at wot at 10 minutes runtime.

Great table, thanks a lot!
There is definitely scientific data/information on it although the engine was not put apart after weach run and cylinder wall inspected as engines clearances either.

I don't have much experience with 2-stroke oils because I didn't do any testing. It looks like you have more experience because just on that table you did like a dozen of tests.

So, all oil tests were performed in the same engine (Stihl BR800) at the same ambient temp. (60°F) for the same time (10 min.)?
Then the muffler temp. was measured, the spark plug, piston crown, and valve stems were inspected?
Do we have any images of the spark plug and the piston crown?

Yes, of course it's not only flash point, but usually oils with lower flash point burns cleaner and smoke less. That is one of the things that make oils environmentally friendly. That is why the marine TC-W3 oils have the lowest flash points. But of course the base oils and viscosity matter too.
That's probably why you have some issues in the cold and doesn't run very clean the Honda HP2 oil because that oil has the highest viscosity.

Although, you didn't run all the oils at 50:1 ratio (some were run at 45:1 and 40:1), I definitely see a pattern and that is—the lowest viscosity oils with lowest flash point run the cleanest. (Maxima Super M Injec., VP Racing, Echo Red Armor, Amsoil Dominaotr). Except Amsoil Saber which regardless of its high viscosity and high flash point run clean as well and also except Honda HP2 which has low flash point but it didn't clean. Amsoil Dominator even at 40:1 run cleanest than other oils run at 50:1. That is because that oil is low viscosity with low flash point.
Another pattern I see is that the thickest oils (KV at 100°C) run the coolest muffler temps (Honda HP2, Maxima K2, Motul 710, Amsoil Saber). Except Motorex, Stihl HP Ultra, and Amsoil Dominator that don't have high viscosity but run cool temp.
Another pattern I see is that the synthetic blend oils run the highest muffler temps (Maxima Super M Injec., Echo Red Armor) and eventually the Maxima Super M Injec. seized the engine with the highest muffler temp. of 633°F.

Interesting, the only oil that got A+ for both runability and cleanliness also seized the engine. Are you sure the oil ration was 50:1 and not less?
I would suggest to measure the muffler temp. half way at the 5th minute too, not only at the end. If it's too high—stop the test.

So, to clarify—the columns on your table are:
1. Oil Brand/Type and Oil ratio run
2. Muffler Temp. (I see what you ment earlier by saying that certain oils run cooler than others)
3. RPM
4. Flash point
5. Viscosity at 40°C
6. Viscosity at 100°C
7. % - What percent is that?
8. Vics. ? - Cannot read it.
9. % - What percent is that?
10. Oil color

11. Runability—I guess that's how the engine runs which is subjective as well.
12. Cleanliness

 

[Japanese]

Yes .. looking for the exceptional oil(s).

If you are not satisfied with so many high quality oils that you tested already, I don't have an idea what oil would qualify as exceptional.

Your tests show that you won't find the best protection oil (the lowerst muffler temp.) that also run the cleanest. Maybe Amsoil Saber or VP Racing or maybe Motul 710 are close to that oil, according to your test table.
For me the lowest muffler temps. is much more important than which oil run the cleanest. Because the cleanest running oil had also the highest muffler temp. and that seized the engine. I still think that the oil ratio might've been lean in one way or another.

 

[lilspenny]

Great table, thanks a lot!
There is definitely scientific data/information on it although the engine was not put apart after weach run and cylinder wall inspected as engines clearances either.

I don't have much experience with 2-stroke oils because I didn't do any testing. It looks like you have more experience because just on that table you did like a dozen of tests.

So, all oil tests were performed in the same engine (Stihl BR800) at the same ambient temp. (60°F) for the same time (10 min.)?
Then the muffler temp. was measured, the spark plug, piston crown, and valve stems were inspected?
Do we have any images of the spark plug and the piston crown?

Yes, of course it's not only flash point, but usually oils with lower flash point burns cleaner and smoke less. That is one of the things that make oils environmentally friendly. That is why the marine TC-W3 oils have the lowest flash points. But of course the base oils and viscosity matter too.
That's probably why you have some issues in the cold and doesn't run very clean the Honda HP2 oil because that oil has the highest viscosity.

Although, you didn't run all the oils at 50:1 ratio (some were run at 45:1 and 40:1), I definitely see a pattern and that is—the lowest viscosity oils with lowest flash point run the cleanest. (Maxima Super M Injec., VP Racing, Echo Red Armor, Amsoil Dominaotr). Except Amsoil Saber which regardless of its high viscosity and high flash point run clean as well and also except Honda HP2 which has low flash point but it didn't clean. Amsoil Dominator even at 40:1 run cleanest than other oils run at 50:1. That is because that oil is low viscosity with low flash point.
Another pattern I see is that the thickest oils (KV at 100°C) run the coolest muffler temps (Honda HP2, Maxima K2, Motul 710, Amsoil Saber). Except Motorex, Stihl HP Ultra, and Amsoil Dominator that don't have high viscosity but run cool temp.
Another pattern I see is that the synthetic blend oils run the highest muffler temps (Maxima Super M Injec., Echo Red Armor) and eventually the Maxima Super M Injec. seized the engine with the highest muffler temp. of 633°F.

Interesting, the only oil that got A+ for both runability and cleanliness also seized the engine. Are you sure the oil ration was 50:1 and not less?
I would suggest to measure the muffler temp. half way at the 5th minute too, not only at the end. If it's too high—stop the test.

So, to clarify—the columns on your table are:
1. Oil Brand/Type and Oil ratio run
2. Muffler Temp. (I see what you ment earlier by saying that certain oils run cooler than others)
3. RPM
4. Flash point
5. Viscosity at 40°C
6. Viscosity at 100°C
7. % - What percent is that?
8. Vics. ? - Cannot read it.
9. % - What percent is that?
10. Oil color

11. Runability—I guess that's how the engine runs which is subjective as well.
12. Cleanliness

Here is a Google Photos link that should clear the fuzziness. This forum cuts the resolution. The percent is a comparison of the viscosity at 100°C and 200°C using 40°C as the baseline. HP2 is an interesting case.... It's viscosity is very high but it loses more % of viscosity as temp goes up. Not a good running oil until for my br800 until engine is warm. While HP2 loses a lot % if viscosity it still has plenty at 200°C. I like HP2, just not until engine is warm. The temp was measured at wot on each oil. Ten minutes was my measurement time although each oil was run at a minimum of 2 gallons and temps measured at the end of 2 gallons. I used much care to measure ratio. Measuring bottle was a pharmaceutical bottle which was weighed/calibrated with 2oz, 4oz, 6oz, and 8oz of water to verify volume/weight. The bottle was accurate. Gasoline was measured using the same basic protocol. All ratios posted are as accurate as feasible. I only have a few photos, but unless everyone could actually be there or watch live there really is no point in trying to "prove" the results. How could anyone know I was truthful? Faking photos? Besides, it's possible that every br800 may have it's own unique results. After the seizure my testing was begun anew with the new br800. All previous results were not used. People can believe my results or not believe, so be it. I started looking at oils because Stihl Ultra was running dirty and smelled bad to me. The more I tested Stihl Ultra the more I was reminded of Oedipus. The Stihl Ultra ran very cool and is quite good in that regard. As much as I wanted a bad result the truth showed a good result insofar as temp. I even bought new Ultra which was run with different gas and the smell was decent. There is a definite variance in gasoline. The place I buy 93 0e gas has consistently had really good burning gas. It's a Murphy station in Florence, AL. I have bought 95 0e in Huntsville at the Phillips 66 which was good and 91 0e in Athens which was so bad that it caused Red Armor to make a mess. The 93 0e is all I use for testing and I buy 25 gallons per visit. If it ever turns out to be iffy gas I will know quickly because I know what to expect. All iffy gas has been run in my truck. The carburetor was adjusted for peak rpm each time I changed oil. Remember, the br800 is not a 2-stroke. The carb does not need to run rich while under no load conditions. There is about a 3/16 turn of the high speed screw that is favorable and I always seek the sweet spot but favor on the rich side of that sweet spot. That spot will still give max rpm. Spark plugs were changed each time oil was changed. I even went to a cmr5h instead of the oem cmr6h to see if that might run cleaner. It definitely ran cleaner but the engine temp was noticeably warmer. Not a good idea. As testing was underway it became obvious that it was not going to be accomplished quickly. Weeks went by. Months went by. My neighbors probably thought I was a nutcase. I blew every day. On my property and on the neighborhood streets. The cleanest oil, Super M Injector, has a pretty high flashpoint. Yes, it was measured correctly. Was the seizure caused by that oil? I don't know. I do know that long periods of time in 2-strokes and 4-mix at wot can be risky because the crankcase tends to have less oil to utilize. It's best to vary throttle, or increase oil. Water cooled outboards handle this better than air cooled ope. It takes a good oil to run hot and lean and still offer good protection. Hence, Stihl told me via email to always run a full synthetic. So far I have found 2 oils that are exceptional in my br800... Amsoil Saber 50:1 and 64:1, and Motorex Crosspower 2T 40:1. They are both excellent oils. So what if I were to be using a chainsaw or weed eater under heavy load? Just a guess, but Saber has demonstrated an ability to operate well at various ratios in my br800 and fs131r. It "seems" to be great under load, as does HP2 and K2. There really is no oil that is best at everything, but from what I have seen Saber has to be the standard by which oils are judged. Stihl Ultra should also be used as a baseline. Motorex is my favorite oil in the br800. It performs well and smells great. In my fs131r with .105 string and no guard Saber runs cooler. Red Armor is a clean oil but to me it stinks plus runs a tad hot. I do trust Red Armor, and trust means a lot. It will not fail. Notice that 710 is rarely mentioned? It is a very good oil but fails to be impressive above HP2, K2, Motorex, Red Armor, or Saber. VP? Well, all things being equal I'll stick with a bit more viscosity and a higher flashpoint. May be psychological, but VP is a winter oil for me. Dominator... Clean but just doesn't run well in my br800. Like Motul 800 off-road it may be a bit too hard for my br800 to digest. That boils down to the base oil. Too bad because it runs cleaner than Saber. In my fs131r, no problem. This testing has shown that different conditions favor different oils, or different ratios. Too much alteration in ratios will also alter the additive ratio which can change the desired results. So, Honda says run their HP2 at 32:1. I tried that. Ran great in my chainsaw but choked my br800. So I tried 50:1. Better, but what about using less detergent caused by using less oil? There are tons of variables. Notice no Klotz oils? That's because Klotz does not want consumers to know basic composition and viscosity numbers. Same with other oils, but Klotz was difficult to accept. I even wrote Klotz only to be told "this is the only information I have" after giving me very little information. See link below. Edit... Even that is blurry on this forum. Not my fault, but somehow this forum won't produce good photos for me.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/9DpELPg6gUpetD3i8

 

[UNC196]

Yes .. looking for the exceptional oil(s).

I think best is a relative combination of the fuel, oil, additives, and engine.

I have seen 2 stroke that ran perfectly in my chainsaw, but wouldn’t run well in my trimmer. My Husky blower will run well on the most garbage 2 stroke ever…I’ve used 2 year old pump gas and cheap oil in it while never winterizing it. Runs perfectly.


Generally, I think fuel ages quickly and poorly. It needs to be refinery fresh. That’s hard with ethanol free gas.


I used to mix in oil, fuel stabilizer, and ring free. I think it was a lot to add and potentially caused some of the poor running.


This year, I mixed up 2 gallons of 93 octane ethanol free fuel at 50/1 with Mystik FD rated OPE oil. Not sure if they sell it anymore, it was purple and nothing magic. Bought it a couple of years ago. It is running perfectly. Low smoke. No issues.

 

[lilspenny]

Nobody said that and is not written in the Stihl manual as well.


Yes, now we are discussing only the Stihl BR800X 4-MIX blower and try to find the best oil for it. My last two posts are specifically for that machine which runs much low RPM and probably a lot cooler than a regular 2-stroke. You have experimented with thick oils that didn't work out well. I'm suggesting 2-stroke oils with lower flashpoint about 212°F and not higher than 250°F. All the oils you tested so far have much higher flash point than that and that contributes to smoking and not burning clean, especially at lower temps. Matter of fact the Red Armor has low flash point at 164°F.

I asked about your oil mixing procedure because you never mentioned at what ratio did you run any of those oils (Motul 710, 800, Amsoil Saber, VP Racing, what else did you run?) in the BR800. If you run ratios rich oil ratios above 50:1 any oil will get dirty and smelly. I've run the Motul Scooter Expert oil (above) at 50:1 in a 2-stroke bike and you cannot see any smoke even at start up. Yes, that oil is synthetic blend but is also JASO FD / ISO-L-EGD as the Red Armor and that covers your manual.

Also, please tell the moderators to add to your thread title and in your first post that you ask and discuss the Stihl 4-MIX engine BR800, not the Stihl 2-stroke engines.

Here is what Stihl said about running a full synthetic... When Stihl advises to use a fully synthetic oil there is a reason. That reason is probably engine failures that they have seen which were caused by too much heat for the Stihl engine. They are confident that Stihl Ultra is good enough at 50:1 to protect. I can see why, as Ultra runs cool. Too bad it also runs dirty. So, therein lies my objective. Find oils that run cool and clean. Also .. no significant ash buildup on valves. Back to my statement that "there is no equivalent to Stihl Ultra". (Ashless, full synthetic, high flashpoint, relatively low viscosity, and not for use in outboard motors and various other non ope). Apparently Stihl is willing to have carbon buildup in order to avoid ash buildup on the valves.





Thank you for contacting STIHL Inc.



Regarding your inquiry, we would like to provide you with the following information:



To ensure the maximum performance of your STIHL engines, please use a high quality 2-cycle engine oil. To help your engine run cleaner and reduce harmful carbon deposits, STIHL recommends using STIHL HP Ultra 2-cycle engine oil, or we would kindly advise you to ask your dealer for an equivalent fully synthetic 2-cycle engine oil.

Please use only STIHL two-stroke engine oil or equivalent high-quality two-stroke engine oils that are designed for use in air cooled two-cycle engines.

Additionally, please do not use NMMA or TCW rated (two-stroke water cooled) mix oils or other mix oils that state they are for use in both water cooled and air cooled engines (e.g., outboard motors, snowmobiles, chain saws, mopeds, etc.).

For your own convenience, we would like to provide you with a link to locate an authorized STIHL dealer in your area, as well as with the Owner's Instruction manuals of the products in PDF form, which are also downloadable and/or printable.

Dealer Locator
https://www.stihlusa.com/locator?changeDealer=true&returnurl=

STIHL BR 800 Owner's Instruction manual
https://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent...BR-800-BR-800-X-Owners-Instruction-Manual.pdf

STIHL FS 131 R Owner's Instruction manual
https://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent...HL-FS-131-131-R-Owners-Instruction-Manual.pdf

We hope this information has been helpful.

We remain at your disposal for any further assistance.


Kind regards,


STIHL Inc.
536 Viking Drive
VIRGINIA BEACH, VA 23452
USA

1-800-467-8445
www.stihlusa.com


If you are not the legitimate recipient, please send the e-mail back and delete it
on your system. Any unauthorized use or transfer of confidential information
may have legal consequences.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

[Japanese]

The percent is a comparison of the viscosity at 100°C and 200°C using 40°C as the baseline.

How did you get / measure the viscosity at 200°C?

So far I have found 2 oils that are exceptional in my br800... Amsoil Saber 50:1 and 64:1, and Motorex Cross Power 2T 40:1. They are both excellent oils.

Great!
Why don't you always run those oils then?

So what if I were to be using a chainsaw or weed eater under heavy load?

I thought this is discussion only for BR800 4-MIX engine because it didn't run clean enought, not comparison of 4-MIX vs 2-stroke engines that have obvious differences.

The carburetor was adjusted for peak rpm each time I changed oil. Remember, the br800 is not a 2-stroke.

Why would you adjust the carb if you run the same ratios 50:1? Why did you run some oils at 50:1 and other to 45:1 and 40:1 that compromises the test result?

The carb does not need to run rich while under no load conditions. There is about a 3/16 turn of the high speed screw that is favorable and I always seek the sweet spot but favor on the rich side of that sweet spot. That spot will still give max rpm.

Who said that? Those machines are designed to run most of the time at full throttle. Also, adjusting the carb to lean may be the reason for seizing your engine. If I was testing different oils in that machine (BR800) I would run all oils at 50:1 ratio (as the manual states) and run the carb with the stock settings or at least with the same setting with each oil.
Also, if you set the carb for lean because of some thicker oil and than forgot to set it back to rich and after that run lower viscosity oil that might not be healthy for the engine. Also running different oil ratios and carb settings compromises the oil tests because the conditions are not the same and the variables increase for no reason.

Notice no Klotz oils? That's because Klotz does not want consumers to know basic composition and viscosity numbers. Same with other oils, but Klotz was difficult to accept.

Most Klotz oils have castor oil in them—hence the smell. They also run dirty because of the castor oil but provide exceptional engine lubrication. However, I don't think they are suitable for OPE machines that run below 10K-12K RPM and especially not suitable for 4-MIX engines that run lower RPM and temperatures. If you didn't like Honda HP2 and Motul 710 Klotz will be oven bigger overkill and you'll hate it.

Which Klotz oil would you like to read the specs for?
This Swedish website provides technical info (PDS) about the Klotz oils because overseas they use it in their RC models (cars, planes, etc) to take advantage of the castor oil in them. There are more Klotz PDS on that Swedish website. All those PDS are from 2018.

Klozt Original TechniPlate
https://www.minicars.se/internt/artiklar/internal_documents/KL200_KL205_Tech_Sheet.pdf

Klotz Super TehcniPlate
https://www.minicars.se/internt/artiklar/internal_documents/KL100_KL101_Tech_Sheet.pdf

Klotz BeNOL Racing Castor Oil
https://www.minicars.se/internt/artiklar/internal_documents/BC171_BC172_BC175_Tech_Sheet.pdf

 

[Japanese]

Here is what Stihl said about running a full synthetic... When Stihl advises to use a fully synthetic oil there is a reason. That reason is probably engine failures that they have seen which were caused by too much heat for the Stihl engine.

Thank you for contacting STIHL Inc.

Regarding your inquiry, we would like to provide you with the following information:

To ensure the maximum performance of your STIHL engines, please use a high quality 2-cycle engine oil. To help your engine run cleaner and reduce harmful carbon deposits, STIHL recommends using STIHL HP Ultra 2-cycle engine oil, or we would kindly advise you to ask your dealer for an equivalent fully synthetic 2-cycle engine oil.

But you already run two synthetic blend oil - Maxima Super M Injector and Echo Red Armor (the above table).
2-stroke Oil Tests in Stihl BR800 4-MIX engine and the first one seized the engine.

Did you run those oils before the Stihl letter cited above or after? It's interesting that those two oils have the highest muffler temps. at 633°F and 590°F respectively. So, don't run them anymore and stick to the full synthetic oils that give you great results like Amsoil Saber and Motorex Super Power 2T. And don't run any TC-W3 or NMMA oils either as stated by Stihl. If you want to try those marine oils they have to be mixed at 25:1 but also at your own risk because of their low viscosity and low flash point.

 

[lilspenny]

But you already run two synthetic blend oil - Maxima Super M Injector and Echo Red Armor (the above table).
2-stroke Oil Tests in Stihl BR800 4-MIX engine and the first one seized the engine.

Did you run those oils before the Stihl letter cited above or after? It's interesting that those two oils have the highest muffler temps. at 633°F and 590°F respectively. So, don't run them anymore and stick to the full synthetic oils that give you great results like Amsoil Saber and Motorex Super Power 2T. And don't run any TC-W3 or NMMA oils either as stated by Stihl. If you want to try those marine oils they have to be mixed at 25:1 but also at your own risk because of their low viscosity and low flash point.

I'm really just amazed at your outspoken knowledge. How many years have you run or repaired 2 stroke machines? Which brands and models? Which ones? 4-mix machines?

 

[kballowe]

I hate this thread because it makes my head hurt.

I'm feeding a 15-year old Shindaiwa, a relatively new Echo SRM-225, and a ten year old Stihl 056 string trimmer. Oh, and an old 4-mix Shindaiwa blower and a 20 year old Stihl 270 chainsaw.

They usually get the Stihl silver bottle or the Echo Red Armor - at 50:1 with Seafoam in the mix at one ounce/gallon. I buy whatever 87 octane fuel they have at the gas station at the last minute and drain them for winter. I freely admit to orange bottle Stihl or Husqvarna on occasion.

BUT - I only go thru about five or six gallons of pre-mix in a year.

 

[lilspenny]

I hate this thread because it makes my head hurt.

I'm feeding a 15-year old Shindaiwa, a relatively new Echo SRM-225, and a ten year old Stihl 056 string trimmer. Oh, and an old 4-mix Shindaiwa blower and a 20 year old Stihl 270 chainsaw.

They usually get the Stihl silver bottle or the Echo Red Armor - at 50:1 with Seafoam in the mix at one ounce/gallon. I buy whatever 87 octane fuel they have at the gas station at the last minute and drain them for winter. I freely admit to orange bottle Stihl or Husqvarna on occasion.

BUT - I only go thru about five or six gallons of pre-mix in a year.

Just curious... What year model is your Shindaiwa blower? Echo has revived the 4 stroke blower.

 

[kballowe]

Just curious... What year model is your Shindaiwa blower? Echo has revived the 4 stroke blower.

i bought it from our local Western Auto store as they were going out of business in 2009. I didn't realize it was a 4-stroke until sometime later when I actually read the owner's manual. Odd thing is that (from new) it always had to "warm up" a minute or two before it was ready to go.

 

[Japanese]

I'm really just amazed at your outspoken knowledge. How many years have you run or repaired 2 stroke machines? Which brands and models? Which ones? 4-mix machines?

I already answered this same question in post #65 above:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/oil-advice-from-stihl.402139/page-4#post-7607038

Thanks for answering my questions in post #70. What do you think about the Klotz oils properties in that same post?

I'm trying to get you the patterns from your 2-stroke oil test in a 4-MIX engine. However, there are inconsistencies (too many variables), so it's really hard and subjective to draw any conclusion. The inconsistencies are:
1. The oils were not run at the same ratio. (some were run at 50:1 and other at 45:1 and 40:1)
2. The carburetor was adjusted for specific oils. (we don't have information how was adjusted and with what oils)
3. The engine was run only for 10 min. which is not really enough to draw any conclusions because at about that time the engine just reaches it's operating temp.
4. The engine was seized. Do we have any information on the carb settings - stock or lean settings?

My research show that Stihl BR800 has a .53 gallon tank (page 19 on the PDF below) and runs about 80 min. on one tank.
https://ssc.stihl.com/tsa/techdoc-documents/DVS_STIHL%2FZBA%2FZBA%2F0458-490-8321-B_ZBA_04_01.pdf
That means that by running the engine for 10 min. you burn about 8.5 oz of fuel. I don't think that is enough fuel to tell which oil burns the cleanest and protects the best. One or two tanks would be much better test, but longer running time would be even better.

 

[lilspenny]

i bought it from our local Western Auto store as they were going out of business in 2009. I didn't realize it was a 4-stroke until sometime later when I actually read the owner's manual. Odd thing is that (from new) it always had to "warm up" a minute or two before it was ready to go.

Sounds sorta like my br800. The Echo pb5810t is their latest 4 stroke. Many Echo and Shindaiwa owners have spoken out as critics against the Stihl 4-mix. Now, Echo has revived their 4 stroke hybrid. Echo has been quiet about the pb5810t being a 4-stroke. Interestingly Echo recommends synthetic blend, low ash, Red Armor oil for it. The war against 2 strokes is on.

 

[lilspenny]

But you already run two synthetic blend oil - Maxima Super M Injector and Echo Red Armor (the above table).
2-stroke Oil Tests in Stihl BR800 4-MIX engine and the first one seized the engine.

Did you run those oils before the Stihl letter cited above or after? It's interesting that those two oils have the highest muffler temps. at 633°F and 590°F respectively. So, don't run them anymore and stick to the full synthetic oils that give you great results like Amsoil Saber and Motorex Super Power 2T. And don't run any TC-W3 or NMMA oils either as stated by Stihl. If you want to try those marine oils they have to be mixed at 25:1 but also at your own risk because of their low viscosity and low flash point.

Yes to the timing. Why do they have to be run at 25:1? You have not ever owned and operated a Stihl 4-mix, right? Edit... So, what is your experience with 2 stroke ope? Brands and models?

 

[tblt44]

I run echo in all my stuff

 

[kballowe]

Just today I replaced the first primer bulb in that T242 Shindiawa string trimmer.
And I think this is the first plug change.