Oil advice from Stihl ...

[lilspenny]

I have used VP Racing 2 cycle oil at 50:1, 45:1, and 40:1 on Stihl (4 mix and 2 cycle models), Redmax, old Lawnboy/Toro-Suzuki 2 cycle walk behind mowers and a few cheap chain saw equipment. I use ethanol free (REC89) fuel on all my 2 cycle/4-mix equipment. I experiment with the different fuel to oil ratios from time to time but mostly/recently use 45:1. I cannot detect any engine performance changes at the different ratios. Suspect the real test is internal engine wear at elevated hours. No exhaust smoke at 40:1. My current 45:1 adds a margin of safety in case I did not mix the fuel myself (some friends/kids suggest I have trust issues).

Some of my Redmax line trimmers, blade edgers, and handheld/large backpack blowers are over 24 years old. Before VP oil, I used Redmax FD oil. This year I had to replace a cylinder to case gasket on a 24 year old redmax hand held blower (my guess over 800 hours use in OAT range from 95F to 10F -winter use clearing cars of snow) so I got to inspect the internals. Very clean with no significant wear on the bore and piston.

I think the key for small hand held 2 cycle/4-mix equipment is to use an FD rated oil at a ratio between 50:1 and 40:1 mixed with fresh fuel. I like ethanol free fuel as it has almost eliminated my carb clean/rebuilds in the last 8 (estimated) years since I switched over.

Thanks for sharing. You keep stuff running like I do. I have all 4-mix now so I'm always concerned with cam wear especially on my blower because the cam is on the fan side. The br800 was a gift to me and it's been flawless but matching an oil to it has been a journey. I will not use Ultra because of the stinky exhaust and the carbon. I will say that Ultra certainly is not the only oil that causes carbon. I'll give vp another try since I have an unused 16oz bottle. How did you like the Redmax oil?

 

[Slick]

Thanks for sharing. You keep stuff running like I do. I have all 4-mix now so I'm always concerned with cam wear especially on my blower because the cam is on the fan side. The br800 was a gift to me and it's been flawless but matching an oil to it has been a journey. I will not use Ultra because of the stinky exhaust and the carbon. I will say that Ultra certainly is not the only oil that causes carbon. I'll give vp another try since I have an unused 16oz bottle. How did you like the Redmax oil?

lilspenny

The Redmax FD always worked well for us never having a issue except carb cleanings likely from the ethanol fuel. During those years we used 87 octane unleaded with 10 percent ethanol as we had not yet switched over to ethanol free (REC89/90) on our single cylinder equipment. My son was running a small commercial operation to save for college while in High School. I was his free labor help and maintenance guy. He seemed to like running the big zero turns while I did the triming/edging/debris blowing.

I would still be using Redmax FD oil if VP Racing 2 cycle was not available. We would buy it in case quantities from a out of dealer in Florida that offered a great price back then. (Mobil also had a great oil (2T) we used before Redmax oil but sadly it has not been available in years. Would buy it in 1 quart cases and was gold colored. From memory it was a suggestion from Cuejet. I bet Cue still has some)

Funning story: Many years ago we went to the fall landscaping show in Louisville KY and were leaving on the last hours of the show. Stopped at the Redmax display to look at their largest backpack blower at the time and Redmax Rep asked us what equipment we had and what oil we used. We used all Red max 2 cycle equipment at the time and their FD oil. She said they would have to cart all this oil out in soon. Told us to take whatever we wanted for free. I asked, did I hear that correct. She smiled and said it is yours. I love a great bargain. Son and I took our jackets off and used jackets as a makeshift "carry all" to take all of the 6 packs of gallon mix containers they had. I don't think I had to buy any 2 cycle oil for the following year.

I have been buying the 16 ounce containers of VP Racing 2 cycle oil from Wallmart.com. I think it has been $9.48 per bottle and if you have over $35 order they ship free. Local walmart by us does not stock it but some do.

Let us know how the VP racing oil works for your 4-mix machines when you start back. I consider it as a lower cost version of Echo Red Armor oil.

Best regards

 

[lilspenny]

lilspenny

The Redmax FD always worked well for us never having a issue except carb cleanings likely from the ethanol fuel. During those years we used 87 octane unleaded with 10 percent ethanol as we had not yet switched over to ethanol free (REC89/90) on our single cylinder equipment. My son was running a small commercial operation to save for college while in High School. I was his free labor help and maintenance guy. He seemed to like running the big zero turns while I did the triming/edging/debris blowing.

I would still be using Redmax FD oil if VP Racing 2 cycle was not available. We would buy it in case quantities from a out of dealer in Florida that offered a great price back then. (Mobil also had a great oil (2T) we used before Redmax oil but sadly it has not been available in years. Would buy it in 1 quart cases and was gold colored. From memory it was a suggestion from Cuejet. I bet Cue still has some)

Funning story: Many years ago we went to the fall landscaping show in Louisville KY and were leaving on the last hours of the show. Stopped at the Redmax display to look at their largest backpack blower at the time and Redmax Rep asked us what equipment we had and what oil we used. We used all Red max 2 cycle equipment at the time and their FD oil. She said they would have to cart all this oil out in soon. Told us to take whatever we wanted for free. I asked, did I hear that correct. She smiled and said it is yours. I love a great bargain. Son and I took our jackets off and used jackets as a makeshift "carry all" to take all of the 6 packs of gallon mix containers they had. I don't think I had to buy any 2 cycle oil for the following year.

I have been buying the 16 ounce containers of VP Racing 2 cycle oil from Wallmart.com. I think it has been $9.48 per bottle and if you have over $35 order they ship free. Local walmart by us does not stock it but some do.

Let us know how the VP racing oil works for your 4-mix machines when you start back. I consider it as a lower cost version of Echo Red Armor oil.

Best regards

I have been hesitant to use vp @ 50:1 since it is thinner.

 

[Alex D]

A BITOG compatriot and I are running tests on the BR800 X Magnum platform (he's got one, and I do).

So far the best oils for ultra clean burn with good lubrication film on the engine internals are:

- Amsoil Saber
- Motorex Crosspower 2T

In testing are now:
- Maxima SuperM
- Maxima SuperM Injector

Also checked but deemed less effective were:
- Maxima K2
- VP fuels
- BelRay H1R
- Red Armor
- Honda HP2

Not considered because of inferior performance:
- Stihl HP Ultra

 

[ARB1977]

Amsoil Saber at 80:1 for the last 8 years. Exhaust port is carbon free. Spark screen was removed 11 years ago.

 

[Japanese]

but the answer was vague because there are so many variables like viscosity, vis index, ash, flashpoint, etc....

What answer do you need? Exact brands and products?
You can run any 2-stroke dedicated motorcycle oil, but not NMMA or TCW, boat, snowmobile rated oils. How clear is that?
That guy on youtube Richard Flagg has many videos testing motorcycle oils. Pick one and you'll be good.

 

[lilspenny]

What answer do you need? Exact brands and products?
You can run any 2-stroke dedicated motorcycle oil, but not NMMA or TCW, boat, snowmobile rated oils. How clear is that?
That guy on youtube Richard Flagg has many videos testing motorcycle oils. Pick one and you'll be good.

Equivalent. Stihl Ultra is ashless with a very high flashpoint of 428° F. There is no equivalent.

 

[97prizm]

What ratio on the vp?

I run my FS-38 on 40:1 with VP racing. Only had to replace the fuel filter once. Starts up every spring. The higher octane av fuel makes a difference.

 

[lilspenny]

I run my FS-38 on 40:1 with VP racing. Only had to replace the fuel filter once. Starts up every spring. The higher octane av fuel makes a difference.

Where do you get the av fuel? Price of it? Can anyone buy it?

 

[97prizm]

Where do you get the av fuel? Price of it? Can anyone buy it?

Yeah most airports now have something called mogas which is unleaded and 100 octane. Some local airports you can walk up put your credit card in and pump like a regular gas station. Some local airports the fuel is in a truck and an fbo attendant has to pump it for you. Check out Airnav dot Com put in your zip code 100LL or mogas.

 

[lilspenny]

10-4 thanks!

 

[Japanese]

Equivalent. Stihl Ultra is ashless with a very high flashpoint of 428° F. There is no equivalent.

Why do you care if its ashless or not? Ashes help lubrication at high temp.

Technically, you run also NMMA or TCW oils, but you need to go to 25:1 ratios.
Also you can run lower flash point oils and add 0.5-1% (200:1-100:1) of castor oil. Castor oil has a flash point at about 500* and won't faul your plugs if engine runs over 10K-12K rpm.

However, castor oils may gums up below the piston in the crank bearings because it cannot fully burn.

 

[Japanese]

Equivalent. Stihl Ultra is ashless with a very high flashpoint of 428° F. There is no equivalent.

Most of todays oils are JASO FC/FD rated and because of that cannot have very high flash point. Motul 800 2T has pretty high flash point - Road Racing version 274.0°C (525.2°F) and Off Road version 215°C (419°F).

Motul 800 Road Racing
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/800_2t_factory_line_road_racing_en_fr_motul.pdf

Motul 800 Off Road
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/800 2T FACTORY LINE OFF ROAD (AP) 2.pdf

Catrol Go! 2T Trouble Free Ride has flash point of about 194°C (380°F), but is JASO FB oil.

Suitable for use with all makes of 2-stroke motorcycles, scooters, all-terrain vehicles and lawn equipment.

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...FA27C7A80258B9700482AC2/$File/WEPP-D93RJK.pdf

 

[Jmoney7269]

I would only use Stihl if you wanted the longest life out of the 2-stroke engine. I guess the only substitute i would consider would be Amsoil.

Ive been watching a lot of chainsaw videos lately on different oils and engine teardowns and the best and cleanest burning one ive seen is honda hp2

 

[Japanese]

Equivalent. Stihl Ultra is ashless with a very high flashpoint of 428° F. There is no equivalent.

Here's another very high flash point 2T oil at 493°F (256°C) designed to run at 23,000 RPM:
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/KART_GRAND_PRIX_2T_en_FR_motul_20210414.pdf

Take a look at the section Recommendations:

Mixing ratio:
- 100 cc: 6%
- 125 cc: 4%

For the smaller displacement engine is recommended more oil.

 

[Sumboodie]

Any FD oil ran 40:1 in ethanol free gas and your Stihl will love you long time.

50:1. 40:1 is too lean.

 

[lilspenny]

Here's another very high flash point 2T oil at 493°F (256°C) designed to run at 23,000 RPM:
https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/KART_GRAND_PRIX_2T_en_FR_motul_20210414.pdf

Take a look at the section Recommendations:

For the smaller displacement engine is recommended more oil.

Quite high viscosity, too.

 

[oil pan 4]

50:1. 40:1 is too lean.

32:1 loads up my saw with oil.
32:1 is fine in other things ran wide open for extended time like weed eater and leaf blower.

 

[Japanese]

Quite high viscosity, too.

Take a look at the section Recommendations:

Mixing ratio:
- 100 cc: 6%
- 125 cc: 4%

For the smaller displacement engine is recommended more oil.

One thing that needs to be mentioned about the Motul kart racing oil is that 100cc requires 6% (12:1) oil because those carts are air cooled and the 125cc karts are most of the time are water cooled, so 4% (25:1) is sufficient for them.

^This is for the people who say that the oil ratio is the same for both air or water cooled engines.

 

[lilspenny]

One thing that needs to be mentioned about the Motul kart racing oil is that 100cc requires 6% (12:1) oil because those carts are air cooled and the 125cc karts are most of the time are water cooled, so 4% (25:1) is sufficient for them.

^This is for the people who say that the oil ratio is the same for both air or water cooled engines.

We're able to enjoy 2 strokes now. They are under attack now in Virginia.