Observed EV tax credit market distortion

demarpaint said:
I agree, only maybe 2075 for the year. Just look no further than the grid, lets not forget they want to do away with oil and natural gas heat, gas cooking, gas hot water, etc.
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This just in, with electric demand going up across the nation, power plants are burning more fossil fuels than ever.

Like who would have thought? *LOL*
Can you imagine if everyone or a significant amount of people owned an electric car? Good god, what a disaster this is. All created by some of the same people (no politics)

Fact - Resale value on many electrics are falling into the toilet and we already know sales are in the toilet. Now just imagine what would happen if I didn't have to contribute $7,500 for someone to buy one> Wouldn't you think we would be better spending (oh wait borrowing) this money and build nuclear plants?
 
alarmguy said:
This just in, with electric demand going up across the nation, power plants are burning more fossil fuels than ever.

Like who would have thought? *LOL*
Can you imagine if everyone or a significant amount of people owned an electric car? Good god, what a disaster this is. All created by some of the same people (no politics)

Fact - Resale value on many electrics are falling into the toilet and we already know sales are in the toilet. Now just imagine what would happen if I didn't have to contribute $7,500 for someone to buy one> Wouldn't you think we would be better spending (oh wait borrowing) this money and build nuclear plants?
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I agree, but it's tough for a reply without getting into politics. Lets cut back on oil, coal, and natural gas to go all green. That's a big LOL in my book. Oh and people often forget the energy demand that the up and coming AI is supposedly going to need. It's only right to add in AI to all the juice the EVs, electric heating, cooking, hot water, etc. involved in the Go Green Pipe Dream will need. 2075 might be a more realistic number than many think to get the grid ready.
 
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Is it sad to say I don’t really worry about depreciation when all EVs basically drive the same in stop and go traffic with varying degrees of acceleration? I’m not going to replace it every 5 years. I won’t gain much in functionality.

It just doesn’t matter when it’s that cheap to operate. While I’d still pick the fast one, I’m just getting A to B otherwise. Even modern ICE vehicles aren’t improving that much. Considering how long the warranty period is on some of these newer cars I don’t get why people lease instead of just buying and realizing time without any form of payment eventually.
 
alarmguy said:
This just in, with electric demand going up across the nation, power plants are burning more fossil fuels than ever.

Like who would have thought? *LOL*
Can you imagine if everyone or a significant amount of people owned an electric car? Good god, what a disaster this is. All created by some of the same people (no politics)

Fact - Resale value on many electrics are falling into the toilet and we already know sales are in the toilet. Now just imagine what would happen if I didn't have to contribute $7,500 for someone to buy one> Wouldn't you think we would be better spending (oh wait borrowing) this money and build nuclear plants?
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AG, hard to agree with your perspective on this one...

Yeah, lots of AC going on in these hot months... Solar panels for the win! I think you know most people charge at night due to cheaper rates.

Resale on EVs is horrible. Prices continue to fall on new, better ones, so used drop in value. This is typical of new products. Early adopters, like me, understand this. Remember the price of the early IBM PC? Introduced in 1981 for $1,600 with a whopping 16KB of RAM. You could easily spend $4,000 for a loaded configuration. And that's in 80's money...

You don't pay the tax credit. The purchaser, if eligible, gets a credit.
 
The freedom isn't the price of the fuel, it's the absolutely limitless access due to availability. And most places don't have 330 sunny days. And do they have enough roof acreage to power a home fully plus charge cars, because if we all have to go electric there will be multiple cars to charge.
 
Torrid said:
Hertz sells everything. This isn't some knee jerk reaction. I've seen the mileages some of these cars have been coming out of there with. They've got a lot of miles. I worked with Hertz for 10 years and then worked with them for 1 year after that when they bought my company out. My job was to install equipment in many cars and then remove it before the cars go to auction or the sales lot. It's a constant process. They bought a lot of EVs all at once and not surprisingly the time limit went up on those car all at once. I haven't worked there in 8 years now. They had Teslas back then too, just not as many.

It's amazing what the news can put out to bend a story. It's like making news when they sold a bunch of Altimas and bought mostly Malibus and Impalas as their replacement. That was just the cycle they went through. I've said many times I don't think EVs benefit the rental car company or the renter. These cars will predominantly see public charging in the hands of renters, so they aren't saving money on fueling costs.
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I got one off those 23 EUVs this spring from Hertz. I were looking at Tesla models 3 also, decided that basic EUV will be more practical for my case, and I’m really not sure that I want everything controlled by a huge tablet, even my glovebox. Anyway, got it for very decent price, with under 7k miles on it. Had a few minor scrapes that buffed off and two back tires were damaged when Carvana delivered it (It engages parking brake if it detects rolling). Anyway, very happy with mine, and it surves my purpose very good. Don’t really plan to take it outside of the city and surrounding areas, so I don’t really care about slower DC charge rates. For those who plan to try out EV, used Bolt or EUV can be a great choice. Prices came down dramatically, and they are nice simple cars with decent range. Mine is limited to 80% change and I shows avg 200 miles at the that level with my driving. The most I’ve driven it in one day is 100 miles so far, so not a problem at all.
 
LDB said:
Where does it come from? Who exactly pays it?
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No one. Do you understand what a tax credit is?
A tax credit is a dollar-for-dollar amount taxpayers claim on their tax return to reduce the income tax they owe.
So if you do not owe any federal tax, such as a low wage earner, there is zero benefit.
 
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LDB said:
The freedom isn't the price of the fuel, it's the absolutely limitless access due to availability. And most places don't have 330 sunny days. And do they have enough roof acreage to power a home fully plus charge cars, because if we all have to go electric there will be multiple cars to charge.
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Now you are starting to understand. An EV's value, like any other vehicle, depends on your use case. For the right use case, such as mine, waiting 47 years makes no sense.

I'm not sure anyone said we all have to go electric; I sure didn't. I love my Tundra, even though it sucks the gas, it makes a whole lot more sense for me than any EV pickup.
 
zyxelenator said:
I got one off those 23 EUVs this spring from Hertz. I were looking at Tesla models 3 also, decided that basic EUV will be more practical for my case, and I’m really not sure that I want everything controlled by a huge tablet, even my glovebox. Anyway, got it for very decent price, with under 7k miles on it. Had a few minor scrapes that buffed off and two back tires were damaged when Carvana delivered it (It engages parking brake if it detects rolling). Anyway, very happy with mine, and it surves my purpose very good. Don’t really plan to take it outside of the city and surrounding areas, so I don’t really care about slower DC charge rates. For those who plan to try out EV, used Bolt or EUV can be a great choice. Prices came down dramatically, and they are nice simple cars with decent range. Mine is limited to 80% change and I shows avg 200 miles at the that level with my driving. The most I’ve driven it in one day is 100 miles so far, so not a problem at all.
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Just another general motors screw up. They are like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football away from Lucy. They just love to torture themselves.
I haven’t heard or read a bad thing about the GM Bolt. So what did they do? They cancel production to go after high margin cars only to change their mind and come out with a new Bolt model after the public and investor out.

In the meantime, they lost over a year of sales. The EUV is a model that we were interested in along with the gasoline trailblazer

Not only that the high margin cars and high price tags of all EV models are struggling. General Motors could’ve been cranking these out of the factory and selling them all.
 
JeffKeryk said:
No one. Do you understand what a tax credit is?
A tax credit is a dollar-for-dollar amount taxpayers claim on their tax return to reduce the income tax they owe.
So if you do not owe any federal tax, such as a low wage earner, there is zero benefit.
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I do understand that theory. I don't necessarily believe they aren't making it up somewhere else in some way.
 
alarmguy said:
The average every day taxpayer pays for it.
It gives taxpayers who owe up to $7500 less in taxes that they have to pay if they buy an electric car

Joe public who doesn’t buy an electric car has to pay his full tax bill
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Each of us has credits, write offs, etc. No one pays for other's tax credits. There is no such thing; it is a tax liability calculation.
Now if you wanna talk about tax payers paying for things, I can tell you a couple vehicle company beneficiaries: GM, Chrysler, Ford (bailouts, either direct or indirect) and perhaps our Navy patrolling the Straits of Hormuz?
 
LDB said:
My dealer never adds anything to any vehicle. Period. And has 7 brands available. Might not be any discount off Monroney price if it's a hot model but never anything above sticker.
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Who is it? Houston is not that far for me, 3 hours.
 
alarmguy said:
This just in, with electric demand going up across the nation, power plants are burning more fossil fuels than ever.

Like who would have thought? *LOL*
Can you imagine if everyone or a significant amount of people owned an electric car? Good god, what a disaster this is. All created by some of the same people (no politics)

Fact - Resale value on many electrics are falling into the toilet and we already know sales are in the toilet. Now just imagine what would happen if I didn't have to contribute $7,500 for someone to buy one> Wouldn't you think we would be better spending (oh wait borrowing) this money and build nuclear plants?
Click to expand...
This isn't the flex that ICE advocates think it is. Power plants burn fossil fuels at a far higher thermal efficiency than your neighbor's F250. Most use co-generation to make waste heat useful. That could never be duplicated on a moving vehicle, it's just too big and too heavy. The closest thing to that is hybridization, but even that doesn't get close to what power plants can do.

At the end of the day there is less carbon from the grid operating an EV than an ICE vehicle, the research is out there if you care to look.

But really, I don't care about the carbon arguments that much anyway. I just like the way they drive. And resale value in the tank? Well that's great for me because I'm looking to replace my other ICE vehicle.
 
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