Not necessarily. Allocations get redistributed.
Observed EV tax credit market distortion
- Thread starter Brons2
- Start date
11pages of used EVs under 30,000 miles.
https://www.hertzcarsales.com/used-...adius=0&geoZip=20146&odometer=0-30000&start=0
https://www.hertzcarsales.com/used-...adius=0&geoZip=20146&odometer=0-30000&start=0
Sadly NADA has a much more organized approach dealing with the auto industry than say apple dealers which have no congressional level organized structure for legislating themselves whatever they wish.
Now it's true that the manufacturer COULD cut them off or try to revoke their franchise, because of frowned upon practice of markups, or the much rarer excessive discounting, but in reality they could care less that the dealer gouges their clients as long as they make their quota.
How much control a manufacturer has over dealer retail pricing will depend upon the terms under which a franchised dealer is incentivized to take on and offer a new model.
In the case of the Ford EVs, I suspect that FOMOCO must have heavily subsidized the floor plan costs, so Ford could have exercised control over selling prices as a part of the agreement for that deal.
I don't know this as fact. It's merely my speculation based upon the number of these things that dealers took into inventory and are still trying to move.
In the case of the Ford EVs, I suspect that FOMOCO must have heavily subsidized the floor plan costs, so Ford could have exercised control over selling prices as a part of the agreement for that deal.
I don't know this as fact. It's merely my speculation based upon the number of these things that dealers took into inventory and are still trying to move.
Your missing a part.
Manufacture sets MSRP where they believe the market price is - or close.
Historically OEM's would do rebates to incentivize sales when business was slow or something was unpopular. They could do it direct to consumer (to provide a marketing incentive), or extra credit to the dealer to give them room to move aggressively on price while maintaining the perceived MSRP starting point.
So in the same way, the $7500 is factored into the MSRP. OEM's know that EV buyers will do the math. $37500 EV is really $30K. So its $7500 margin built in.
Yes, dealers can do what they "want", but if they want to sell cars the market decides. If there local market allows add ons and market adjustments - then they can The market adjustments around here were never as bad as I have seen posted elsewhere, so its likely locality specific.
There's no monetary CAFE credit. It's all about avoiding or reducing CAFE penalties. Credits can be bought and sold. Tesla for example sells them. Obviously if you're selling both ICE and "EV" your EV offsets X amount of ICE. Then you can perhaps buy credits from say Tesla to zero everything out.
Extremely strange selection, I guess if you want a used 2023 Volvo.
You can still find some “new” 2023’s that are untitled which are a better deal all around.
The strange thing with most EVs (not including the leaf) is that no matter how old or how many miles they are all clustered randomly around the same price.
Why you would pay the same for a 2017 Bolt with 120,000 miles and no QC as compared to a 2019-2021 with under half the miles is beyond me.
Last edited:
I think there is just too much binary thinking about EV’s, as well as misapplication by OEMs. I dont think electrics will ever be the right choice for everyone, certainly not in the near to medium future. However, for many people they would work fine. I think the OEM’s messed up by going for maximum range, those customers wouldn’t by an EV anyway. Why not do 120 miles (or insert any number here) if it dramatically lowers sticker price and would work for 80% of EV buyers? Pretty much any resident of metro suburbs would be a good ev candidate (certainly as a SECOND) car. I think we are going to have a mix of ICE and EVs for at least the medium range future. The problems come when govs start getting mouthy and based on nothing come up with these 2035 ICE bans and the like. This instantly polarizes everything.
Yes, binary thinking tends to be wrong on both counts. An EV, like any car, depends on your particular use case. The have their place, but certainly are not for everyone.
The negative posts are generally from non-owners, full of "I think" and "they should", etc. Owners generally love their EVs and learn a lot. I sure did. Human nature does not like change...
But I disagree on range; range is everything.
I think that many did do city cars, but it was still somewhat expensive. We had the Leaf and the e-Golf used to be available. Mini either has one coming out or is out that's a shorter range vehicle too. I'm very much pro EV and do have one, but primarily still drive a gas vehicle. Part of that is for enthusiast reasons, but also for what I use the gas GTI for a city vehicle wouldn't cut it about 70% of the time. The Tesla covers this pretty well, but rarely does that duty. I'd still prefer a small hatchback, so nothing fits that with the range and most that fit my needs are crossovers and I really don't want a vehicle that large.
First world problems I know. If I had less driving needs I'd probably source a good condition e-Golf for inexpensive transportation. I'm still a child(mentally) when it comes to wanting a performance daily driver so I ended up in a GTI and would really like a Golf R.
Last edited:
EV's are a great idea and a perfect solution for 2067. This isn't then. They are ok and do an acceptable job in many cases and are at least one generation, if not two, too soon to really be the answer they want them to be. No matter how much they are forced on everyone now they aren't it. And the fact some of the mandates and restrictions are being pulled back proves it. The same with the wind/solar/etc. that is at least a generation too soon or just down right phony. But the media and one direction are big on them so they get falsely played up.
I spent many many many hours studying and researching EV's and determined they aren't a solution for my needs. I do not own one. And 43 years is a good estimation of 2 generations, about the time needed to properly get where they want to force us to be right now.
I bought our '18 Mid Range as a gift for my wife. I thought similar to you. And at that time Tesla was gonna be belly up any day....
I was wrong.
You just posted you have no real life EV experience. Sure an EV may not be right for you. They are not right for every use case; no car is. But why would you say "EV's are a great idea and a perfect solution for 2067." ? Why is 2 generations a good estimation? Based on what?
The fact is EV owners for the vast part love their cars. Again, the (expensive) Model Y was the #1 selling car in the world last year, by a bunch. Perhaps they are ready for a lot of buyers?
In my case, the performance is so much fun and is so useful in everyday driving; the instant torque is great in traffic. Also, in traffic, idling is expensive in ICE (zero mpg) while your EV doesn't care. While not everyone does, I love 1-pedal driving. I can tell you starting every day with a full tank is amazing; going to gas stations is a drag and is expensive! The rare times I supercharge, I plug in, walk through the parking lot and grab a coffee or whatever. Come back, maybe check emails, or just zoom outta there.
This is what EV ownership is for me. I just bought my 2nd one.
Based on reliable and adequate infrastructure to support them. Based on technology to adequately and reliably give 400+ miles range at any time under any conditions. Bringing cost down to a competitive point. Making them an equal to an ICE option. Things we don't have now or in the foreseeable future. Two generations is a best estimate on how long it will take to achieve those things.
You're cherry-picking the worst traits of EVs while ignoring the things they already excel at. Convenience, acceleration, low maintenance, fuel savings, structural rigidity, reduced emissions.
I could get into how a large number of large batteries connected to the grid could actually be a stabilizing influence but I ain't got time.
Has everybody heard that over 50% of cars sold in China last month were EVs?
I could get into how a large number of large batteries connected to the grid could actually be a stabilizing influence but I ain't got time.
Has everybody heard that over 50% of cars sold in China last month were EVs?
Imagine thinking you have more freedom being forced to buy expensive gasoline vs. being able to power your car from the sun independently, with solar panels on your house in an area of 330+ sunny days.
Just sayin'...
Just sayin'...
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Locked