No e-core Mobil 1 and K&N filters, why????

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SilverC6

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If e-cores are so good, why doesn't Champion make their premium filters, M1 and K&N, in this configuration?

Champion began the e-core movement from the other direction.....

First - Mexican Valucraft
Second - Super Tech at Walmart
Third - STP
Fourth - AC Delco
Next - ??????
 
It is very true. That said, the more premium filters may be a spec provided in the opposite direction - K&N isnt going to build their own, but will provide a spec, and the different makers can bid to build to it.

Valucraft and supertech are purely to a price point, nothing else. STP is a midline player, IMO, and delco needs to retain a trust factor, so they may be a bit tougher to satisfy - especially for delco, there may need to be some burden of proof for quality.
 
I've gotta agree and believe that the plastic components in the e-core exist for cost-saving measures. As far as AC Delco, I used to use them happily in my boat, cars, trucks. no more. I dont believe that the e-core design is as good. in spite of the general feeling around here that e-core is a good filter, I have seen a couple of filter "tear downs" that found some weak points and failure points (open flow through gaps in the media) in some e-cores. Years ago, "a leading consumer magazine" actually did filtration testing (back in the mid 80's) on oil filters. They said that the AC Delco's that were made in England were better than the USA ones. interesting. of course, they also rated Fram as a top-performing filter. which, I am guessing, they were back then.
 
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i stopped using the a/c delco oil filter also...I have been using it for years if i wanted e core i would buy super tech at wal mart although those prices are gettng high also..
 
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like was said above the KandN and Mobil 1 filters are made to those companies specs. Unless those companies want the filter to go ecore, they will not.
 
Originally Posted By: defektes
like was said above the KandN and Mobil 1 filters are made to those companies specs. Unless those companies want the filter to go ecore, they will not.


I would assume that is the case. K&N, Mobil 1, Harley, Royal Purple, etc still retain the original design and that is probably due to customer specs or choice. As long as Champ has the production capabiity to make the legacy filter the customer (contracting company) can have what they want. RP is a relatively new contract and they have the legacy design so that tells me that Champ is still offering the legacy design for new Requests For Proposal and not completely phasing it out right now.

All that said, Champ says this

"The 11 most popular filter designs have been redesigned into the Ecore construction. Additional filter configurations will migrate to this configuration over time."
 
I don't hate the Ecores, but OTOH I'm not paying $10 and up for one. I don't believe M1 and K&N will go Ecore, but if they ever do, I'm done with them.
 
If Mobil 1 and K&N go to the e-core style of construction, then it would go a LONG way to convince me that it is truly a good design.

Until then... no thanks.
 
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I've gotta agree and believe that the plastic components in the e-core exist for cost-saving measures.


Not at all. The creation of the dedicated line would make them cost prohibitive. It was for the environmental aspects of filter disposal. The OEM are returning to cartridge, but the after market and quick lube industry are chuck full of spin-on's for (probably) decades.

They already had a low-ball line for the trade/aftermarket. If it was for "cheap", they just spent a whole lot of money with no substantial ROI in the shorter term.


..but I submit that if one wanted M1 or K&N grade media ..and a silicon combo valve, that Champ would manufacture it under your label. There is just no demand for such a product. Let me add that if the price was right, and offered a price advantage to either K&N or M1 ..if it was in the PureOne price range, I'd be happy to use it.

My only complaint with the Ecore is the failing of all nitrile components in filters, you can't get more than 3-5k out of them before the annoying (just an annoyance) noises start ..and that's about it.
 
E-Core is interesting as it is a similar design to the cartridge system on our now gone '98 BMW. When you put the cartridge filter in the housing, there was a plastic web or grid, whatever is the appropriate term, attached to the cap, that went through the center of the filter...That thing took the heat cycling of a normal engine for 10 years and held up fine.
 
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

My only complaint with the Ecore is the failing of all nitrile components in filters, you can't get more than 3-5k out of them before the annoying (just an annoyance) noises start ..and that's about it.


Maybe they should consider using silicone instead. Wonder why they don't? ... probably cost related. They figure everyone what's a $2.49 oil filter.
 
Originally Posted By: labman
Yeah, pay $3.50 instead and get a Purolator Classic with a nitrile ADBV and a dome end bypass.


Exactly ... well worth the extra $1.
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Originally Posted By: river_rat
I don't hate the Ecores, but OTOH I'm not paying $10 and up for one. I don't believe M1 and K&N will go Ecore....
+1 IMO, M1 and K&N as currently designed and constructed are built to handle extended OCI's. While I have nothing against Ecores, as designed with felt (like) endcaps I would not consider them for use in extended OCI's. I'd pay ~$2.50 for an ST for 3-5K OCI, but not beyond.

My preference is for metal endcaps, and apparently the filter manufacturers including Fram, see the benefit in them for anything beyond a standard length OCI. I know I wouldn't pay a premium price for an Ecore even if it had a silicone adbv. Even if the same price as a Pure One, I'd pick the P1 because of construction and efficiency.

As designed the Ecore is at a price point where it can be a sensible choice, but beyond that it would be a tough sell IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: labman
Yeah, pay $3.50 instead and get a Purolator Classic with a nitrile ADBV and a dome end bypass.


Exactly ... well worth the extra $1.
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Well maybe, if you belong to the USW.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
+1 IMO, M1 and K&N as currently designed and constructed are built to handle extended OCI's. While I have nothing against Ecores, as designed with felt (like) endcaps I would not consider them for use in extended OCI's. I'd pay ~$2.50 for an ST for 3-5K OCI, but not beyond......

Sure. I have a few Ecores in my stash. But for M1, K&N price--which I dont mind paying--I want it built like a brick [censored]house.
 
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

My only complaint with the Ecore is the failing of all nitrile components in filters, you can't get more than 3-5k out of them before the annoying (just an annoyance) noises start ..and that's about it.


Maybe they should consider using silicone instead. Wonder why they don't? ... probably cost related. They figure everyone what's a $2.49 oil filter.


The concept of the Ecore itself is targeted at the future potential for economical and environmentally convenient disposal. It wasn't done for the individual user. You have a whole mass of quicklubes, dealerships, and fleet operators using expensive and time consuming processes to de-metalize filters. The Ecore reduces that to one step. Zip the can and dump.

FleetGuard attempted market penetration in this area with their spin-on canister. It's a pathetic loser for the individual user due to the filters inserts being in such limited distribution and (because of that) too high a cost. But to a taxi fleet or other like enterprise that had so many man hours devoted to filter filleting just to get the metal out, it would work in secondary savings in what could be easily recycled and what could be disposed of cheaply in an increasingly authoritarian regulatory environment.

uff1.jpg
 
Can you explain this procedure? Around here you just drain the filter and throw it away or recycle it, AFAIK.
Why do they separate the metal?
 
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