Nissan 1.8L/RL530/Auto-RX/LC

[TooSlick]

Solvency and volatility are a two edged sword ....

If you were to try and blend a fully formulated oil using low viscosity esters to get the desired solvency, it would end up as a very thin oil and burn off easily (think of synthetic two stroke oils). In terms of formulation chemistry, it becomes problematic to achieve both good solvency AND low volatility in the same formulation ....

So the approach Terry is using actually makes a lot of sense, even if it seems like VooDoo engineering ...

 

[Terry]

Teddy, its in the cards!

 

[Terry]

Mola has provided that warning but 2 ounces per qt and a 1 t o3 ounce top off every 1000 miles has proven through field trials like this to be effective and not cause problems.

Active solvency that would pose that issue are depleted at the 1000 mile mark in a system like a internal combustion engine.

When using analysis as a guide those issues would be recognized easily.

Note that Odis Beaver has used the product and very high dosages for 30+ years that both Mola and I were initially nervous about. I am less concerned with the issue after a year and a half of testing. Mola being the chemist may take a different stance and I will let him speak for himself.

Jason, generally RL does NOT need LC for oxidation stabilization for the duration you describe. To take the oil out past that time frame and DEPENDING ON THE SPECIFIC APPLICATION RL can be extended with the use of LC.

LC address's a real issue with Amsoils formulations and is a real benefit in using with Amsoils engine lubes. The LubeControl product has many benefits for any lube that needs solvency added with a side benefit of oxidation stabilization and all that goes with that.

Once again you all are being allowed into the ongoing testing of a product much like the development of Auto-RX so remember that this is not marketing you are seeing and reading from LC and Auto-RX but honest up front sharing of results and ongoing discussions.

You are the most informed lube consumers in the world right here at BITOG.

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

---

If you were to try and blend a fully formulated oil using low viscosity esters to get the desired solvency, it would end up as a very thin oil and burn off easily (think of synthetic two stroke oils). In terms of formulation chemistry, it becomes problematic to achieve both good solvency AND low volatility in the same formulation ....

---

Just an FYI Ted, synthetic 2-cycle oils are mostly 10.6 to 13.5 cST viscosites, and this includes 11% of solvents and 8% additives. The base oil is a mix of various esters.


WRT to the LC treat ratios, there was an early concern, devoid of expensive chemistry testing, that one of LC's components might depolymerize VII's and esters (see report) at high temperatures and at high treat rates. In the report, we were attempting to err on the safe (conservative) side for treatment rates.

However, when mixed with Amsoil ATM and Mobil 1 SS, at 5 times the treat rate levels (also in the report), no depolymerization was observed at 105 F. I think further testing and close monitoring using analysis has shown that slightly higher treat rates above that which was was originally recommended, do not depolymerize esters and VII's.

However, I would not go beyond the recommended treat levels without close monitoring using UOA analysis, such as what Terry has done here.

 

[Terry]

Just an update on the IR run for this test.

Soot is 12 low

Oxidation of 75 is the corrected value, which is 37.5%.

I QA/QC my customers analysis results better than I do my own ! Much less Oxdiation than first reported. Nearly normal for a Dino oil, let alone RL.

Nitration is 92 rerun, even better.

Sulfur is 119 much worse than originally reported so the fuel here is still crappy and FP didn't clean this for me.

This is the kind of changes other labs will not tell you about unless someone is reading and rereading the data.

TD

[ March 10, 2004, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[Night Owl]

Terry: Could you summarize this in laymans terms. From your results, what do you see as the positive end results of each additive when added to RL oil?

RL+RX=

RL+LC=

RL+RX+LC=

Effect of FP=

 

[Terry]

Night Owl, gladly:

RL+RX= Overkill, some liquid filter capability depending on application level. RX if present will clean before the RL will at a 3 ounce Auto-RX load.

RL+LC= Optimum for extended drains and oxidation control, some thermal stability benefits in race engines.

RL+RX+LC= Liquid filter phase of Auto-RX usage and cleanup of overextended or damaged oil. It works. LC and ARX didn't seem to have any compatibility issues in this test. Major insolubles control. Once oil cleaned no need to change oil, change filter top up and continue.

Effect of FP= Nox drop and oxidation control and good insolubles containment or burn off.


I need funding to go "all the way" and make the cynical engineers happy but all in all quite amazing chemistries contributing to a good result.

Hope that helps decipher it all a bit.

 

[Night Owl]

Yes it helps very much! Thank you sir...Scott

 

[Terry]

update same engine/car SAME M1 oil filter using LC/FP and GC 0w-30 NO oil added. total GC oil use interval 10,664 miles and still running. Oil filter was run about 12464 miles.

al 3
ca 3407
cr 1
cu 9
fe 31
pb 9
mg 13
mo 228 redline in the filter
p 882
k 12
si 22
na 11
sn 1
zn 1281
soot/solids 0 yes 0

oxd 46 or 23% low
nit 115 or 57.5% time to tune up
sul 0 clean from FP use

water,coolant,fuel all none or negative

vis 12.5cSt needed a bit more LC used and skipped a FP fuel treat

TBN 5 perfect

Fe is still not at my standards but considering the whack I gave this thing it is consistent.

Wanted to share the results running the USED M1 oil filter with USED RL in it showing that I can control vis, solids( insolubles production) and lower oxidation using LC.

Will give total FP and LC used in a later post, got to go play putt putt golf with kids at Church tonight.

TD

 

[buster]

Thanks for sharing this Terry. LC does a heck of a job at keeping oils in grade. The wear seems to be on par with RL so far, maybe a tad higher.