Nissan 1.8L/RL530/Auto-RX/LC

[Terry]

2002 Nissan Sentra 1.8L4,man trans
3qts Redline 5w-30/ 12oz Auto-RX/26oz LC/4 oil filters used,1 nissan,2 wix,1 M1
40235 total miles
14187 oil miles- 1 year service
Auto-RX w/M1-110 for liquid filtration 1500 miles
LC used at 2oz per qt initial fill, then 1to3 oz every 1000 miles.

6000 miles into interval we had a silicon issue from a jarring blow to engine and exhaust system,and dirt ingression. Si to 90 ppm. Changed AF and oil filter using LC and Auto-RX and dropped Si to 26 ppm, rose to 29 ppm at end of test.

al 3 normal to low

ca 1519 depleted

cr 1 low to normal

cu 11 slight elevation Auto-RX dropped this from 15 peak

fe 39 slight elevation ARX dropped from 42 peak

pb 11 slight elevation, no change from trend but stable.

mg 10 slight depletion of oil add

mo 307 depleted

p 649 depleted

k 17 normal

si elevated 29 see note above, this is affecting all wear values.

na 15 normal oil add

sn low, a major drop using Auto-RX ! peak of 6 ppm

zn 769 depleted

soot/solids 13 LOW

oxd 111 or 55.5% normal RL and Auto-RX oxd levels, 40 or 20% normal for conventional oils in this test engine

Nit 98 or 49% normal for duration, 40% normal burns hot.

Sulfur 26 LC and FP cleans up the crappy gas here! LOW.

W,A,F negative, none, perfect

V100cSt 11.9 Starts at 11.2 well within limits considering 3 qt capacity and dirt ingression.

TAN 1.8 oil starts at 0.1, this is a change indicator for us. Auto-Rx raises this during cleaning and would drop if filter changed and topped a bit, LC will drop this as well as oxidation.

TBN 3.0 plenty of residual add remaining, mostly base oil influence as adds deplete. 10.0 VOA dropped as low as 2.0 during test.

Conclusion : Redline oil is one of the strongest PCMO's available and If I could have filtered this oil to < 10 um it could still be used with metered LC usage and top up with FF change.

I am very keen to see the Bob Winters Escort Si drop with the gulf coast bypass filter clean his Si levels.

LC and Auto-RX seemed to have worked quite well together although more formal testing is required to confirm. LC controls both Oxidation, vis increase, it also has a FM capability that seems to be dependent on insolubles/soot levels.TAN can be moderated as well with LC.

Auto-RX "liquid filter" affectation did have a positive effect in conjunction with M1 oil filter to stop or drop wear values. More testing required for confirmation.

Auto-RX was used in cleaning phase for 2000 miles using a wix oil filter. Filtering phase 1500 miles at end of test.

Oil changed to GC 0w-30 with M1 -110 oil filter and I will share test data with the BITOG site at that time.

[ March 08, 2004, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[slider]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:

3qts Redline 5w-30/ 12oz Auto-RX/26oz LC/4 oil filters used,1 nissan,2 wix,1 M1
40235 total miles
14187 oil miles- 1 year service
Auto-RX w/M1-110 for liquid filtration 1500 miles
LC used at 2oz per qt initial fill, then 1to3 oz every 1000 miles.

---

That's quite a cocktail. Very interesting.

I see 2 oz. of LC was initially used, twice as much as recomended in the last test report.

What happens when you use 'too much?'

Thanks for posting.

 

[Terry]

Slider, The initial load of LC was metered by oxidation to "fine tune" the LC load. Many of my customers need the higher dosage to maintain proper control in the oil over a long haul.

Also with a small oil capacity in a hot burning engine LC was needed to keep the oil in near new condition.

I used this 14,000 mile test to confirm dosage of LC and at the end the efficacy of LC and FP on a syn like RL.

I haven't seen any problems with using too much LC. And that level would have to be much higher than this level. Remember that out test paper was a starting point, proper use of LC and FP is dependent on oil analysis and the owner/operator observing the oil condition and adjusting levels of LC every 1000 miles or so.

 

[shortyb]

Terry, have you figured which filters are giving you the best service? You are acutely aware of my insoluble levels in the Xterra using the OEM.

Still amazed at the "jarring" causing the Si levels to rise

 

[Terry]

Shortyb, the oil filter really doesn't seem to matter, as long as it does not affect oil flow. Using Auto-RX does though. Even the dense M1 filter doesn't seem to negatively affect this 1.8L 4 cylinder. I am very interested in the Fram "triad " media used in conjunction with Auto-RX.

The Jarring event was from a Semi truck tire that was run over at 70 MPH and dented/jarred the hades out of the engine, car,exhaust system.

The Si spike to 90 ppm just after that event. I got mix of dirt and assembly si that was really problematic in the midst of testing.

Another source of Si the 2.5L 4 cylinder higher Hp version of this engine sees is the fwd CAT exploding and being sucked into the valves and dirting up the oil.

 

[buster]

This is an extremely impressive report for a few reasons. The oil held it's grade for 14k miles and there were only 3qts of it in the engine. That is quite amazing actually.

Regarding M1 oil filters. I think they are top notch along with K&N. I know there is some flow issues that have been talked about but I'm not convinced that this is an issue with all vehicles.

[ March 08, 2004, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[slider]

When was the RX put in?

Thanks.

 

[Terry]

Auto-RX added initially at 36787 miles. So in the engine for 3448 total miles.

 

[TooSlick]

Terry,

So what's "in the cards" next for this little Nissan motor ...?

Since I'm a purist, I think that doping your oil is sort of cheating, but I have to admit I've been playing around with ARX myself, with some impressive results.

How about an automated delivery system for dispensing a small dose of LC every 1500 miles? Hey, of course it's overkill but that's what engineers live for

TS

 

[Terry]

The engine currently has 6 ounces of LC with 3 qts of GC 0W-30 !!!! Just for you BITOG fanatics.

This would have been a "purer" test if the tire had not been run over ! Ah such is the harsh treatment a real engine in a real car gets vs. a test engine mounted in a real safe lab!

The Transaxle has a custom Mola built MTF, neat stuff !!!

Ted, start using the LC with the Amsoil stuff at 1000 miles and be amazed.

TD

[ March 09, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[Pablo]

Really interesting!!! Some observations:

1) If this was Amsoil (with the same wear numbers), people would say "HIGH!!!"

2) If this was Amsoil (with the same wear numbers), people would say "Hey, you doctored the oil, not fair!!"

3) Personally I don't care, it's your car, choose your own juices!!!

PS The TAN gives me ideas. So why do you think the TBN bounced like that? (as low as 2.0)

 

[Terry]

Pablo, I'm surprized the comments haven't attacked the elemental values as being a RL problem too.

TBN degredation was me stressing the heck out of the oil and the TAN pop was some RX cleaning and mostly no top up oil added except for filter changes. A reapplication of LC brought the TBN bouncing back and would have dropped TAN if given a bit more time. Lube control is a real acid killer. This engine uses 0 oil, even over a year of driving and it runs 70+ periodically to stop and go in Dallas traffic. Ambient temps from 110 to 15F.

Point of excercise was to show how low volume of fluid in a engine could be moderated probably indefinitely until the "event" changed my plans ! The test then became a LC and Auto-RX event for a damaged load of Redline oil. IF I could have filtered the oil to
Note that vis NEVER came out of grade nor did lubricity suffer even with a truck load of SI.

Amsoil would have done as well with the use of LC and FP. The POE of the RL is much more robust than the PAO's of Amsoil or M1 for these engines. Thats my informed opinion.

Hopefully Ted will start trying LC in his tests and share them!

[ March 09, 2004, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[Pablo]

I do have LC in the wife's 850 and Amsoil 10W-40.

 

[Terry]

I knew you were running LC and FP successfully from reports you've shared here!

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
...I haven't seen any problems with using too much LC. ...

---

I could swear Molakule has said on this site not to use more than his recommended dose to avoid risk of depolymerization of ESTERS or the VII's.

Part of the reason I haven't used it yet. Other reason is cost. I already get 10k out of RL.
To get to 10k w/LC in it would be an extra $6 minimum(only 1oz/1k). Plus extra ~$.30 per add'l 1k miles. How much more life will it really get me? If I go 15k it will cost minimum ~$8 more than going 10k w/o it.
I'll probably give it a try next interval for the heck of it. Have to order more FP so just add on some LC.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Got it..
Thanks Terry

 

[Spector]

Terry:

In my vehicles that use Amsoil I have been using the BREW with good results. However, on my Camry, currently going through an RX rinse cycle, I am switching over to Schaeffers 15W40 and will have no need for the #132 mix in the Brew. However, I am thinking of adding the LC and the 3 ox maintenance dose of RX. It appears that your testing indicates that this is fine with no side effects at present.

Am I correct that RX and LC look good in combination?

 

[Pablo]

Funny Terry, too funny. Nope, this is the first time I've used LC and I announced it in a ho-hum post some months back. When I ran the 20K test (which Amsoil 5W-30 did quite fine all by itself), I hadn't even heard of Lube Control!!!

I don't have it in the turbo either. Maybe next oil change, though.

I didn't know LC had an effect on TBN???

 

[Terry]

Spector, from my field tests here and others not shared I would say yes. Back that up with analysis on your specific application. This is in-house testing and not a blanket statement of safety. In other words you are on your own if it doesn't work!

The chemists that are familiar with both formulas may disagree with me and I welcome the discussion.


Pabs sorry to misrepresent you that way. I have many customers using LC with Amsoil I must have mistaken you for one of them !

Yes it seems to have an effect on stressed oil in recovering a bit of TBN. VOA of the Lube Control product from our CAT lab using Dyson Analysis kit yields 1 TBN.

[ March 09, 2004, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]

 

[buster]

I can't see how any oil is designed or intended to stay in grade after 10k + miles. I think thats asking for a bit much.

I'd be happy with one grade up or down and as long as wear rates aren't effected, who cares. Running oils that long is risky no matter what supplements your using. Just my opinion.