New vs. restored muscle car

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
I like newer ones because I can use them every single day without worry of wearing them out fast.

But for a garage queen fair weather ride.... gotta go old.


I have been using my Caddy as a commuter for years...over 100K since it was (re)built. The only reason it gets parked is to keep salt off the body. The car probably has ~365,000 total miles. I have about 110K on the stroker engine and it still runs perfectly.

 

[marc1]

Originally Posted By: Bamaro
New ones depreciate while old ones appreciate.


This is very true, my Judge went up huge in the time I owned it (I bought it well before the madness)... my Shelby is maybe 60%-70% of sticker now and will never have the gains of my Judge.

 

[MarkM66]

M1Accord and another one of his fantasy post. Makes a post, and rarely returns.

That fact that he shared his financial situation tells it all.

Stop feeding the trolls people...

 

[Tdbo]

Cars are depreciating assets, overall.
Even if one is fortunate to have one that appreciates, they are still an expensive proposition.
As has been said, their value is in the utility and/or enjoyment they provide.
In my case, I always wanted a 1965 Mustang convertible.
Finally had the opportunity to buy a 1965 convertible and a parts car for Therefore, I decided to go new. Keep it in a carport stored during winter, and get it out and have fun with it. Even if it is never a true "classic", it will give me the enjoyment that I want out of it.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: marc1
Originally Posted By: Bamaro
New ones depreciate while old ones appreciate.


This is very true, my Judge went up huge in the time I owned it (I bought it well before the madness)... my Shelby is maybe 60%-70% of sticker now and will never have the gains of my Judge.


Value of older cars is very volatile. The value of my R/T peaked around 2005, and hasn't recovered anywhere near what it was at its max. And the other thing- I have NO idea if I could actually sell it for anthing like its assessed. It takes just the right buyer, and that can take weeks or months.

If you want a muscle car (new or old) just don't even try to justify it as an investment. Its just a bad idea- consider it what it is. A luxury, a hobby, a toy. Its still cheaper than golf, and healthier than hanging out in bars!

 

[wtd]

It depends on what you are going to do with it. If it's something you want to drive on a regular basis than I would say new. If not, probably old.

I have a 1970 Monte Carlo with a 396 big block in it and also a new 2014 Mustang GT. My new Mustang feels more powerful than the Monte and also rides a lot better and the Monte has had all new springs, shocks, body mounts, and front suspension.

I have also driven the new Challenger R/T and Camaro SS and they both ride very nice and have plenty of power. For comfort, I prefer the new Muscle cars but for looks, I prefer the old.

Wayne

 

[Silverado12]

I had a 1970 Camaro when it was still fairly new, and have a new Challenger now. If I were to pick between the two, it would be a no brainer. Cars have come a long way since 1970 as far as mileage, reliability, build quality, safety, power, etc. No way would I pay 30K for a restored '68 Camaro when I could buy a R/T Challenger for the same money.

 

[Norm Olt]

Thanks, but my W126 cars are still comfortable, I consider them to be SAFE (enough) and they are very economical with my operating costs mostly limited to gas & insurance.

They deliver gas mileage similar to most newer V8 Euro sedans without the $600-900 per month payment.

The SC400 still is a pretty sophisticated coupe and it is paid for: the SVX is still one of the absolute best all-weather vehicles I've had the pleasure to drive. (ditto there, too)

Trucks are there to haul things and people and with a camper are a good, dry, private place to spend the night.

If the question is $45K for a new WHATEVER (muscle car, pony car, sports car, etc.) vs. $45K to restore a 40 year-old one, insurance is usually cheaper on the older version, reliability, safety, economy, performance and ride are better on the new ones.

Not really my bag anymore as I actually "done been there and done that", even had an Ed "BIG DADDY" Roth t-shirt to prove it!

CHEERS!

p.s. How's about a Muscle Truck or a 50's-60's Street Rod instead?

 

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
In 5 years, we'll become the 2% according to the IRS but for now we are in the low 6-figure household income. Therefore, I like to fantasize about a nice muscle car a little bit; play with the numbers, dream about it, and start making plans to ger one when I hit 45 years old or something. I'll be in a low taxes state by then so owning a nice car would not be such a poor financial decision.

Looking at old muscle cars, I see machine with souls. New muscle cars are like new Americans, extremely obese looking. The only thing that look close to the past is the Challenger and the only thing that is decent to drive in is Mustang, which is about to be butchered into a conFusion. Anyone here dreams of muscle cars but always own sedans or commuters? Would you spend money buying a restored muscle car or buy new?


In five years there will be a steady supply of low-mileage garage-queen Mustang bosses and Chevy Corvettes of 2011-forward being sold by widows of the geezers who bought these things in retirement. There will be lots and they will be offered at good prices. Get one of those.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: M1Accord
In 5 years, we'll become the 2% according to the IRS but for now we are in the low 6-figure household income. Therefore, I like to fantasize about a nice muscle car a little bit; play with the numbers, dream about it, and start making plans to ger one when I hit 45 years old or something. I'll be in a low taxes state by then so owning a nice car would not be such a poor financial decision.

Looking at old muscle cars, I see machine with souls. New muscle cars are like new Americans, extremely obese looking. The only thing that look close to the past is the Challenger and the only thing that is decent to drive in is Mustang, which is about to be butchered into a conFusion. Anyone here dreams of muscle cars but always own sedans or commuters? Would you spend money buying a restored muscle car or buy new?


In five years there will be a steady supply of low-mileage garage-queen Mustang bosses and Chevy Corvettes of 2011-forward being sold by widows of the geezers who bought these things in retirement. There will be lots and they will be offered at good prices. Get one of those.

Often the garage queen Corvette gets sold before the man dies. At some point, that man's back and knee muscles get so weak, that getting in an out of an uncompromising sports car is too painful. My father learned this in his 50s because he met so many successful men in their 50s and 60s that buy a Corvette, are hardly able to drive it, then sell it after about 1 year.

At some point after that, my dad once asked me why someone who could afford a Corvette would spend the same amount of money on a Chrysler 300C SRT-8. I said that you could get a super powerful V8 engine, but you don't need a chiropractor to help older men enter and exit that car. Suddenly it made perfect sense to dad.

 

[raaizin]

I would get new or "nearly new" I had two corvettes at the same time a 1971 LS-5 convertible with both tops and a 1996 collectors edition both tops also. Guess which one I drove. The 1996. Wen you drive a modern car you see how dreadful those old cars were. Chassis shake, bad brakes and not that quick compared to modern cars. I would consider an M4/M3, heck a 335i can be had for not much money if you go CPO and it will put a smile on your face. PS corvettes are great to buy used if you know what to look for. I bought my collectors edition at 8 years old with 50k on the clock for 16k. Original sticker was over 50k, and it was a garage queen perfect in every way.

 

[Cujet]

New performance cars have so many advantages over older cars, it's difficult to list all the improvements.

This past summer, I rode in a really well prepped '66 Mustang "resto-rod". As I used to Road Race a '66 Mustang GT, so I was very interested in how it performed and felt.

My impression:

It was quite comfortable and roomy inside, despite the car being smaller than the Corolla parked next to it. The flat floors and flat seats (seats were nicely re-done with modern materials) were amazingly comfy.

The noise from the well built 302 was intoxicating, as was the instant throttle response and rip-snorting feel of the acceleration. Was it faster than my rental 305HP V6 Mustang? Nope. But it felt worlds better!

The handling was as awful as I remember. Even with the relocated, tubular control arms, Koni shocks, stiff bushings, 4 wheel disks and so on. The braced-chassis remains flexible and the suspension still feels "old" and is quite unrefined. "Skittery" is the best word to describe the car on normal roads.

The brakes were quite capable and while they match modern cars stopping power, the lack of ABS results in skidding tires when driven hard. Very annoying.

Overall, it was really fun, for about an hour. All I could think about was the amount of work it would take to bring the car up to modern standards, and how "not worth it" that would be.

 

[Bamaro]

If you have to ask . . .

 

[meep]

I think the allure of old muscle comes with this added appeal of having "done it myself." The image also includes a lifestyle of the guy that keeps that thing looking badess, easily flexing some smart muscle under the hood on a given saturday, with his cute wife or GF dying to go for a ride in it when he's done. and that's the image we want to convey when we drive it down the road, hopefully with someone in the passenger seat now, or soon. The image also implies some stability.... it says, "I've had it for x years. been working it myself. it's what I do, who I am." these things are part of the muscle magic.

So buying one and just driving it... won't have that same feel. and you won't present that same manhood-vibe, until you have had it for a while, spent time with it, and really done those things.... it's the lifestyle that comes with the car that makes it so attractive to others.

and that's why the new ones don't have that allure... yet. they just show you have money to spend on something fancy.

But wait.... 5 years from now it's not new. and 10 years from now you've put your own sweat into it. in 15 it will be seen as the older ones above.... if you actually did those things that make them appealing-- your own time, blood, sweat, interest, and shortly after that, it's a classic car.

So, you could buy new, and keep it for years. and you get the best of both worlds.

If you want older, I'd buy something you WANT to work on. That's where that pride comes from. As someone that doesn't do the "muscle car" persay, but has tended to drive mid-age vehicles, I wouldn't go back before the mid 90's for something I want to drive daily, unless the whole thing, from wires to iron to chassis rubber, has been or is to be redone.

Done right, a crown vic could put you in interesting territory. parts are available, you can go muscle-mentality in it, and they are sturdy enough to be worth daily driving. 70's and such.... classic resto only.

I see a similar variant where I live. Some guys driving the same '70's or '80's plain-jane pickup, near original, every day, every year. no flash dash or splash, just the same truck. doesn't have the muscle appeal, but it shows that some people are doing it.

I'd consider buying something you like, and keeping it long term.

 

[M1Accord]

Op here. There is a 67 Mustang and 68 Camaro for sale at work by the same fellow. They are well kept and run great but the owner, who works on project with some of us sometime, indicates there they do need owners who are classic car savy as they require yearly tune-up (something my 13 years old Accord never heard off to be 100% reliable.) The reason the owner is selling is that he wants a 2014 Mustang GT before the body style goes back to ugly. After talking to him for the last few days, he recommends that I should at least have a tool box first and be efficient at it before buying a hobby car. He is getting out of it because the 2014 Stang will have some of the old great design look while being super reliable for daily use.

Now I am back to square one. We need a car in two years but a small fuel efficient truck or AWD car is what we really need and fit us more due to long commute and my desire to do my own house work. But I do really want a nice muscle car like a Stang, which gets better fuel economy than my Accord. I am going to convince my wife to start driving the Fit and I can get the Stang toward year end to get the discount and use the Accord to drive around town or vacations/long trips to save the new cars from dings, scratch, or theft.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: meep
I think the allure of old muscle comes with this added appeal of having "done it myself." The image also includes a lifestyle of the guy that keeps that thing looking badess, easily flexing some smart muscle under the hood on a given saturday, with his cute wife or GF dying to go for a ride in it when he's done. and that's the image we want to convey when we drive it down the road, hopefully with someone in the passenger seat now, or soon. The image also implies some stability.... it says, "I've had it for x years. been working it myself. it's what I do, who I am." these things are part of the muscle magic.

So buying one and just driving it... won't have that same feel. and you won't present that same manhood-vibe, until you have had it for a while, spent time with it, and really done those things.... it's the lifestyle that comes with the car that makes it so attractive to others.

and that's why the new ones don't have that allure... yet. they just show you have money to spend on something fancy.

But wait.... 5 years from now it's not new. and 10 years from now you've put your own sweat into it. in 15 it will be seen as the older ones above.... if you actually did those things that make them appealing-- your own time, blood, sweat, interest, and shortly after that, it's a classic car.

So, you could buy new, and keep it for years. and you get the best of both worlds.

If you want older, I'd buy something you WANT to work on. That's where that pride comes from. As someone that doesn't do the "muscle car" persay, but has tended to drive mid-age vehicles, I wouldn't go back before the mid 90's for something I want to drive daily, unless the whole thing, from wires to iron to chassis rubber, has been or is to be redone.

Done right, a crown vic could put you in interesting territory. parts are available, you can go muscle-mentality in it, and they are sturdy enough to be worth daily driving. 70's and such.... classic resto only.

I see a similar variant where I live. Some guys driving the same '70's or '80's plain-jane pickup, near original, every day, every year. no flash dash or splash, just the same truck. doesn't have the muscle appeal, but it shows that some people are doing it.

I'd consider buying something you like, and keeping it long term.


I Completely agree with everything you say. I also have the Mercury on my list of cars I love to have and will buy when my finance is more structural sound. I love how the IRS wanting to list middle class family with decent jobs as 2% -those who make $250k+ - but true wealth is when a house is paid off and there are properties in the proof illil as good jobs may not always be around. If Virginia does not tax cars so much, I would have 10 cars already and take turn insure them per season conditions or even monthly by month basis.

 

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
Op here. There is a 67 Mustang and 68 Camaro for sale at work by the same fellow. They are well kept and run great but the owner, who works on project with some of us sometime, indicates there they do need owners who are classic car savy as they require yearly tune-up (something my 13 years old Accord never heard off to be 100% reliable.) The reason the owner is selling is that he wants a 2014 Mustang GT before the body style goes back to ugly. After talking to him for the last few days, he recommends that I should at least have a tool box first and be efficient at it before buying a hobby car. He is getting out of it because the 2014 Stang will have some of the old great design look while being super reliable for daily use.

Now I am back to square one. We need a car in two years but a small fuel efficient truck or AWD car is what we really need and fit us more due to long commute and my desire to do my own house work. But I do really want a nice muscle car like a Stang, which gets better fuel economy than my Accord. I am going to convince my wife to start driving the Fit and I can get the Stang toward year end to get the discount and use the Accord to drive around town or vacations/long trips to save the new cars from dings, scratch, or theft.


I think the discounts on the Mustangs are now. a plain jane 3.7L Mustang has more hp than Steve McQueen's Boss in 'Bullitt'