new Volt owner on morning local news

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Originally Posted By: SuperDave456
I thought greenies just wore more layers in the winter. :P

That's what I do, and I'm the least "green" person I know.
 
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
...You can also program when you usually use the vehicle and it will make sure that all of the systems (including the cabin) are heated or cooled to optimum temperature from wall power before you head out.

So you can tell it to be ready to roll at 6 am and it'll get everything ready with wall power so you're not wasting battery life. This is really clever.

You can quibble with the cost effectiveness (hint - nothing is as cost effective as a used econobox) or point out scenarios where it won't work quite right, but the ingenuity and game changing nature of this car are undeniable. Remember people, it's the first of it's kind and by all accounts is tremendously well sorted. All the early hybrids were big money losers, but they're not anymore. Expect a similar trajectory for this tech.

As another poster pointed out, battery tech is the limiting factor here. It is a really tough nut to crack.

jeff
 
Originally Posted By: moto94536
come on. my 2006 toyota camry v6 get 33.9 mpg on highway. ( with speed 65 mph, cruise control ).


So what? Your point is? My 04 saab does 36 MPG highway under those conditions. My brother's new TDI does >50 in those conditions. So?

The reality is that the volt has a 16kWh battery pack. Gasoline is 36.6 kWh/US Gal, and an engine isnt going to be more than 30% efficient... The battery is better than 90%.

So you are going to use 1.5 gallons of gas to go the same distance as the 16kWh battery pack. Around here regular gas is $3/gal. Youll burn $4.50 worth of gas to go the same distance as $2.50 worth of electricity.

So you just cut commuting costs in half with the flexibility to still be able to go around with a range of a normal car without being tied to charging points.

Will the lifecycle cost equal out exactly? I dont know... but I do know this:

Volt: $41000
Tax credit: $7500
Net: $33500

The volt has moonroof, nav, AT, heated seats, power everything, leather, uprated stereo, etc.

Camry XLE:
4-cyl (match on hwy MPG): 26630
6-cyl (match on torque): 29470
hybrid (just for fun): 26675

And yet these cars arent appointed the same way that the volt is... Plus have the benefit of 20+ years of production with great flexibility of options, etc. We could go on all day and compare a yaris to the volt or whatever else... A prius would be a good option, but we cant even call a spade a spade there until the PHEV comes out in 2012 with a li-ion pack in it... And why knows what issues that will fall into? It is, btw, far smaller than what the volt has in terms of battery capacity when that comes out in the prius.

Have to do 1:1 comparisons otherwise they really are hokey and fairly invalid. For what it is, and for certain applications, the volt is an excellent concept and regardless, is the way of the future. Again, Toyota added EV mode to their hybrids this year, and the prius will be plug-in next year. This stuff is coming, so for as much as people like to bash GM or think that its all hokey, it fits in some places and companies are responding to the market niche. Nothing wrong with that.
 
When the 1st used Volt shows up on e-Bay and the high bid is $112.78 for the auction we'll see just how much (in Greenback$) these P-O-S's are really worth!

Under-engineered, woefully overpriced (by a ton: imagine a $7,500 FEDERAL splif for what is marketed as a groundbreaking design! Who do you think pays for that? The American taxpayer now pays for G(overnmental) M(otors) next "Green breakthrough!) and ugly, to boot.

The Leaf is worse! If you live in Boston (or Philly, or NYC) and never drive more than 25 miles per day (and can afford a parking $pot!) you don't even have to go to that messy gas station, except for air.

In LA, under the same conditions, you have the additional benefit of not being exposed to gang gunfire...

I wonder if the Volt will set a new world record for in$tantaneou$ depreciation?

Cheers!
 
Originally Posted By: moto94536
come on. my 2006 toyota camry v6 get 33.9 mpg on highway. ( with speed 65 mph, cruise control ).


Unimpressive. My '04 Jaguar can do that with a V8 engine. It can't use zero fuel driving across town, though.

The Volt or similar Jaguar electric has high potential to be our next car. Some of you are too focused on cost and cost effectiveness. It's only money - just make more of it.

All cars are money losers, might as well drive something you want / like.

Hope everyone is managing the blizzard OK.
 
Originally Posted By: dwcopple
I'd rather have that 2011 VW TDI in the vehicles forum that is getting 43 mpg not even broken in yet.


My 010 TDI wagon scores 45. I miss the 06, it did 48.
 
The volt travetrain is surprisingly similar to Toyota's hybrid (+3 clutches and bigger motors and batteries). Yet Prius easily gets 45+ MPG on hwy. What gives?
 
The Prius has direct shaft drive with both gasoline engine and electric motor. The Volt's engine is there only to produce electricity.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
The volt travetrain is surprisingly similar to Toyota's hybrid (+3 clutches and bigger motors and batteries). Yet Prius easily gets 45+ MPG on hwy. What gives?

The Volt weighs ~3,500 lbs vs ~3,050 for the Prius. It also has a more conventional shape which would lead us to think it's coefficient of drag would be worse than the Prius', but there's conflicting info on this. GM claims the Volt is 0.28 and the Prius is 0.30, while Toyota claims 0.25.

Also Prius' engine drives the wheels mechanically, with assist by the electric motors. This is an efficient arrangement, especially in a steady state highway mode.
In the Volt, the engine is generating electricity, which is fed through the batteries (and in some cases directly to the motors I think?), which is inherently less efficient than a mechanical connection. So yes long highway cruises (once you've exceeding the electric-only range) are not the Volt's best application.

jeff
 
Originally Posted By: Norm Olt
When the 1st used Volt shows up on e-Bay and the high bid is $112.78 for the auction we'll see just how much (in Greenback$) these P-O-S's are really worth!

Under-engineered, woefully overpriced (by a ton: imagine a $7,500 FEDERAL splif for what is marketed as a groundbreaking design! Who do you think pays for that? The American taxpayer now pays for G(overnmental) M(otors) next "Green breakthrough!) and ugly, to boot.

The Leaf is worse! If you live in Boston (or Philly, or NYC) and never drive more than 25 miles per day (and can afford a parking $pot!) you don't even have to go to that messy gas station, except for air.

In LA, under the same conditions, you have the additional benefit of not being exposed to gang gunfire...

I wonder if the Volt will set a new world record for in$tantaneou$ depreciation?

Cheers!



Funny how folks said the same thing about the prius. Was that speculation correct? What is to say that this one is/will be?

The volt responds to an infrastructure issue - there is none. So the onboard generator is needed to overcome. Is it the optimal way to recharge and ensure electrical continuity? No, but until energy density of the batteries improves and/or fast charge is truly possible and/or there are lots of charging points, this is the best design for the situation. EV cost savings (and 40+% generation efficiency), combined with no real range limitations.
 
Funny how all these "comparisons" I keep seeing never discuss cost per mile. Even the InsideLine article hinted that this is the correct way to compare between this Volt and other more conventional cars, but they never did the math...wonder why.

This car, like every other Hybrid or the full electric Leaf only makes sense for those who fit the use profile. But that wont stop many of the posters around here from bashing it for a use profile it was never intended to fill.

It doesn't fit my profile, and I wont be buying one. But that doesn't mean it wont make perfect sense and get great mileage for many with shorter commutes.
 
I think Craig in Canada hit it on the head.

This is a great start!! I'd choose it over any other hybrid/electric. It looks more conventional, and if you keep it "in the pocket" it's a more future-proof design. Gas extends its range but isn't critical. (if I had a leaf, I'd keep a cheapo 4kw genset in the trunk for emergencies!!!)

It's easier to tap solar and wind than it is to create more oil. and we as americans are completely dependent on outside countries for oil, regardless of unleaded or diesel.

I applaud GM. I hope this thing takes off.
 
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People have to understand they are attempting to tabulate an estimated MPG rating for general comparison. It's a reverse calculation to fit a legacy standard.

MPG eventually has to be discarded. It really boils down to cost per mile for a given (standardized) set up scenarios. No longer city/hwy, but local/distant cost per mile or [energy unit] per mile.

M
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
When the battery SOC goes too low, the engine will generate and provide both traction and battery recharge electrical power. The engine does not drive the car, it is just an alternate source of DC power for operation.


Nuh...there's a thread around somewhere which shows the Volt's drivetrain.

Engine does have access to the wheels, just like Toyota's (just with a clutch)
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
It's not the car's technology that is at fault but rather that BATTERY technology has not advanced enough.


LOL, that's the funniest thing I've read in a while...Does it come with a sticker "batteries sold seperately", or are they part of the PACKAGE that is the Volt ?
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
The Prius has direct shaft drive with both gasoline engine and electric motor. The Volt's engine is there only to produce electricity.


Nope, the Volt's engine is clutched to the ring gear of the planetary gearset...the engine can provide traction as well as electricity....just like the Prius (except its engine is coupled to the planetary and has no clutch.
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Funny how all these "comparisons" I keep seeing never discuss cost per mile. Even the InsideLine article hinted that this is the correct way to compare between this Volt and other more conventional cars, but they never did the math...wonder why.


Then, ultimately you have to include the cost to heat and cool your house, cook your meals etc. etc.

Electric cars WILL make your domestic power more expensive.
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Funny how all these "comparisons" I keep seeing never discuss cost per mile. Even the InsideLine article hinted that this is the correct way to compare between this Volt and other more conventional cars, but they never did the math...wonder why.



it will vary so much based on use profile. it's almost a line graph that would have to chart use from 10 miles/day to 110 miles/day, with wiggle room for city/vs hwy use. obviously, city use under 40 miles will be cheapest for this vehicle, while steady hwy cruise will be ok for a certain range, then costs go up as the genset kicks in. hard to present to the general public. instead of an epa sticker, you'd have an epa white paper on the window...
 
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