New Pistons - Oil consumption better but, not great?

[doublebase]

Come to think of it, I had maxlife synthetic in during the break in and it burned less than the PUP in there now. I figured the opposite would be true, but maybe my car likes Valvoline better. It is certainly a high mileage car other than the pistons.

How many miles are on it?

 

[SatinSilver]

Come to think of it, I had maxlife synthetic in during the break in and it burned less than the PUP in there now. I figured the opposite would be true, but maybe my car likes Valvoline better. It is certainly a high mileage car other than the pistons.

I’ve noticed that with Valvoline also in the 05 I used to have but with the 1.8 1zz engine. Just the white bottle syn blend was the best in terms of little consumption. The engine in yours is the same one used in the 07 to 09 Camrys, 2.4 liter. Where are you located?

 

[Propflux01]

Does any of us truly know if the cylinder walls are plated? Until we truly know these cylinder walls are standard cast iron, we have to assume you can't hone them, and the piston rings need to be the correct rings for plated cylinders.

This is what I brought up on post #26. And more than likely why the book says not to bore.

 

[Cujet]

As a general rule, rings will seat whether the cylinder is honed or not. There is some speculation as to the time it takes, but given high enough loading, rings will typically seat pretty quickly. I repeat my recommendation, load them heavily for good ring seating.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Cylinder walls are not plated.

The surface finish is very precise and rings/pistons are designed to work with that surface finish for efficiency/power/mpg.

Not all oil consumption is from the rings.

 

[Jonas]

How many miles are on it?

186k

 

[Jonas]

I’ve noticed that with Valvoline also in the 05 I used to have but with the 1.8 1zz engine. Just the white bottle syn blend was the best in terms of little consumption. The engine in yours is the same one used in the 07 to 09 Camrys, 2.4 liter. Where are you located?

Same as the Camry 2.4 (2az fe) Kentucky

 

[Jonas]

Cylinder walls are not plated.

The surface finish is very precise and rings/pistons are designed to work with that surface finish for efficiency/power/mpg.

Not all oil consumption is from the rings.

"microfilm coating" on the cylinders

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Hi all. I had the pistons in my Vibe (Toyota 2az fe 2.4l engine) replaced about a month and a half ago and I'm on my second fill (PUP 5w-20). The car has consumed a quart in about 1400 miles. I do a lot of idling/low speed driving and, according to my calculations, this equates to just over 3000 miles of "normal" driving. While this is about half the consumption I experienced before the rebuild, it still seems a little excessive to me. Any thoughts on this?

PUP is the wrong oil absolutely. This stuff burns like free beer at a frat party in our cars when tried.

Next, regardless of the TSB, the cyls should have been given a light hone ABSOLUTELY - no excuses.

Run some conventional motorbike oil if possible to avoid slickifiers in ILSAC RC oils.

But may need another rebuild. Give its some throttle for a few seconds and let it cool down between WOT runs up to 3500 so.

See what happens. But get the PUP out of there!

- Ken

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I don't think so, look at it this way if the original hone marks are still in the complete bore and no ridge then the bore is going to be okay.
If it was out of round or tapered the crosshatch would be worn in places, that alone would tell me anyway there is something no kosher with this cylinder and probably needs either a re-bore or a hone or both.

The problem I am seeing in this thread is the lack of differentiating between a hone and a glaze busting. Honing a cylinder is a very precise process using specialized machinery that has specific pressures on the tooling and a feed rate that provides the correct finish, this cannot be done with some cheap tooling and an electric drill.

Using a ball hone for glaze busting was at one time very common but it can make a bugger out of an otherwise nice bore. Cylinder glazing is rare today. This is a real honing machine with tooling. At most if all the crosshatch is there clean it with WD40 and lightly with 00 steel wool.
The best example of this are the Subaru engines, they have a piston to bore clearance of only...



The A and B pistons are very slightly different size so its not hard to imagine the damage a improperly used hone can do.
If the cylinder bores are not pristine on any engine then a machine shop should be consulted and let the folks with the right tooling and experience do it.
As far as the original finish varying all over the place, it is not, the hatch is either there on the whole bore or it isn't, period, if it isnt machine shop time unless you have one of these and know how to use it (I don't own one but I do know how to use it).

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Edit: This is what Sunnen has to say about ring break in. Another myth seemingly busted (as far as most new engines are concerned anyway.

Given all the oil consumption issues I say - we need more time before marking it as gospel what Sunnen says.
But Sunnen is absolutely a better source than 540RAT.

Me I go with ring manufacturers recs- and if they are hard chrome rings (racing) or moly infused iron.

- Ken

 

[Greasymechtech]

I haven't seen any 'microfilm coating'. And, I can't find any documentation that Toyota ever used a microfilm coating on the 2az-fe. Heard a lot of BS concerning cylinder bore coating. Its a simple cast in cast iron liner/sleeved aluminum block.

Again, from what I remember, it was a machining finish that can't be copied by the local machine shop. Microfilm coating sounds like 'shop bullsh1t' from the clueless to the clueless.

 

[Trav]

Given all the oil consumption issues I say - we need more time before marking it as gospel what Sunnen says.
But Sunnen is absolutely a better source than 540RAT.

Me I go with ring manufacturers recs- and if they are hard chrome rings (racing) or moly infused iron.

- Ken

I am talking about stock rings and pistons, if you want to go off the reservation with aftermarket stuff then of course that can change a lot of things.
I just ordered a Subaru nitride coated crank, stock rods and stock pistons (2A and 2B) and rings for a rebuild, no hone needed as everything measures up well within specs and the hatch is still there, perfect cases for a nice stock rebuild (it has bad rod bearings due to running low on oil).

When I comes to information I most certainly trust Sunnen, they have after all been doing this for almost 100 years and manufacturers around the world use their machinery. As far as performance rings go I prefer the moly coated rings but stay away from hard chrome rings (unless the application demand it) that can exacerbate bore wear, I don't like the block wearing instead the rings.
It is much easier to "freshen" an engine up when you don't have to worry about a worn block.

From Manley....

Depending upon the mileage of your engine and the condition of the cylinder walls, you may elect to leave the bores in their current condition or introduce some crosshatch with an abrasive-ball brush hone or polish with Scotchbrite®. For factory honed (new blocks) we recommend a flex hone with 240-320 grit. This won’t alter bore size and creates a better surface finish for performance ring sets

Another interesting article.

High Performance Piston Rings and Cylinder Finishes - Engine Builder Magazine

Today’s performance ring sets are thinner, lighter and more conformable than ever before. Thinner, low-tension rings reduce friction for more usable horsepower. Less weight reduces ring groove pound out. Narrower rings also allow tighter tolerances and less blowby. All very good things when...

www.enginebuildermag.com

 

[Trav]

Cylinder walls are not plated.

Never heard of chrome plated bores? They are common on 2 stroke aluminum case engines.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Yeah genius, and what engine are we talking about in this thread?

 

[Jonas]

Yeah genius, and what engine are we talking about in this thread?

2009 Toyota 2az fe 2.4 l

 

[Jonas]

I also read that running lean can cause oil consumption. I'm pretty sure I have un metered air getting in because it has all the symptoms. LTFT above +10, rough/high idle, etc.

 

[Trav]

Yeah genius, and what engine are we talking about in this thread?

Were you replying to me? You didn't specify the OP's engine or any engine your statement was.

Greasymechtech said:

Cylinder walls are not plated.

Yet here in a later post you had no problem mentioning the engine.

I haven't seen any 'microfilm coating'. And, I can't find any documentation that Toyota ever used a microfilm coating on the 2az-fe.

 

[Greasymechtech]

I reply to the thread about the thread. Maybe more should use common sense.

 

[Trav]

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I am talking about stock rings and pistons, if you want to go off the reservation with aftermarket stuff then of course that can change a lot of things.
I just ordered a Subaru nitride coated crank, stock rods and stock pistons (2A and 2B) and rings for a rebuild, no hone needed as everything measures up well within specs and the hatch is still there, perfect cases for a nice stock rebuild (it has bad rod bearings due to running low on oil).

I don't think TRW F_M Hastings or Mahle are "off the reservation" it's standard rebuild aftermarket stuff.
But I typically reman low to medium power density classic V8 from the 60's. Not modern Aluminum 4 bangers.

And what is wrong with Subaru?. Those EJ253 engine seem to all have junk bottom ends - and cyl bores.
I just had to toss one myself. On the other hand the wife's 2 liter FB2.0 is faring very well. No Power though.

I never like Subaru weak crank design or crankpin layout and the EJ only has 1-1/2" crank throw !

-Kne