New “min” wage

[eljefino]

Well said, I find it unbelievable that some people think they are entitled to a living wage.
If you can’t cut it, figure it out.

As a society on a whole we have a substantial amount of wealth. Nobody should be starving or homeless. Get someone stable, and if they want it nicer, then it's on them.

Minimum wages are a good floor during deflationary times so employers don't undercut each other in a race to the bottom.

 

[eljefino]

Minimum wage was meant for entry level / experience gaining positions. It was never intended as a living wage.

This is a common misconception. From FDR's speech:

In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living. (link)

 

[PWMDMD]

This is a common misconception. From FDR's speech:

In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living. (link)

A President gave a speech and told an untruth? You don't say...

There is what FDR wanted/promised and there are the realities of today.

 

[SC Maintenance]

This is a common misconception. From FDR's speech:

In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living. (link)

Presidents give speeches. Congress pass laws. The first minimum wage was $0.25 in 1938, adjusted by CPI today would be $5.53.

Hint - don't always trust what politicians say.

 

[Astro14]

This is a common misconception. From FDR's speech:

In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living. (link)

So, the two terms: minimum wage and living wage are not synonymous. Not the same thing at all.

I think we all agree on that point.

One is a minimum.

One allows you to live.

As a 16 year old kid working my first job, I got minimum wage.

I had no skills, and I wasn’t supporting a family, I was working maintenance (groundskeeping, mowing, painting, cleanup). So, I got the minimum.

My daughter once worked for minimum wage, plus some small tips, working at a local cream store in the summer. That’s a minimum wage job. She was in her teens.

Now, as a surgeon, she makes more because she has skills that demand a higher wage, and her commensurate with her value to her employer.

Now that she has developed skills, she gets more than minimum wage.

 

[SHOZ]

The FEDs target 2% inflation rate is how the private owners of the FED make their money. It's a giant skimming of the USA dollar as it is held in assets so valued around the world.

And the official inflation rate is just more government BS.

 

[SC Maintenance]

My daughter has an engineering internship. She is a senior next year. I think there paying $16/hr?

She complains she does the same thing as the junior engineers but makes a fraction of what they make. I tell her when she graduates she will make what they do.

She said " I will use my experience to get a job at a much better place".

I told her "Exactly".

Now, I do pay for her education. One of the reasons I think college in state tuition should be free. Note I said tuition and in state. If we really want the cream to rise to the top, everyone needs to get a chance.

 

[Astro14]

My daughter has an engineering internship. She is a senior next year. I think there paying $16/hr?

She complains she does the same thing as the junior engineers but makes a fraction of what they make. I tell her when she graduates she will make what they do.

She said " I will use my experience to get a job at a much better place".

I told her "Exactly".

Now, I do pay for her education. One of the reasons I think college in state tuition should be free. Note I said tuition and in state. If we really want the cream to rise to the top, everyone needs to get a chance.

She gets so much more than $16/hour from this experience.

She is building the resume to make five times that…

That’s the major disconnect in many of these discussions. I agree that minimum wage is low, compared with years past. I agree that people should make more. But you have to develop the skills to make more.

Folks that want $25 to pour a coffee have missed the point, entirely.

Further, despite my children’s investment via higher education, that is not the only investment people can make in themselves. My electrician makes far more than I do as an airline pilot, because he owns the business. He invested in himself, he took risk, he grew a business, he has employees.

He invested in himself. He put in the hard work.

 

[PWMDMD]

The FEDs target 2% inflation rate is how the private owners of the FED make their money. It's a giant skimming of the USA dollar as it is held in assets so valued around the world.

And the official inflation rate is just more government BS.

I often find people are better at identifying imperfections than they are at understanding that many times something imperfect is still the best option available. We know what happens with zero inflation, we know what happens with negative inflation, and we know what happens with high inflation, so what is your recommendation?

 

[SC Maintenance]

She gets so much more than $16/hour from this experience.

She is building the resume to make five times that…

That’s the major disconnect in many of these discussions. I agree that minimum wage is low, compared with years past. I agree that people should make more. But you have to develop the skills to make more.

Folks that want $25 to pour a coffee have missed the point, entirely.

Further, despite my children’s investment via higher education, that is not the only investment people can make in themselves. My electrician makes far more than I do as an airline pilot, because he owns the business. He invested in himself, he took risk, he grew a business, he has employees.

He invested in himself. He put in the hard work.

Running a business and being an electrician are different. Trust me, I come from a long line of entrepreneurs.

My dad ran a small business. He did OK, supported a family. He was much smarter than I am. He should have been the Engineer, ran an engineering firm. Made millions. But he had no such chance. I am the first in my family to graduate college. He insisted.

Not saying you can't make it through college on your own, but it severely limits who gets to go, given the cost today. Instead of talking about loan forgiveness for worthless degrees from private colleges, why not make state tuition free. Let competition sort out who is who?

 

[Astro14]

Running a business and being an electrician are different. Trust me, I come from a long line of entrepreneurs.

My dad ran a small business. He did OK, supported a family. He was much smarter than I am. He should have been the Engineer, ran an engineering firm. Made millions. But he had no such chance. I am the first in my family to graduate college. He insisted.

Not saying you can't make it through college on your own, but it severely limits who gets to go, given the cost today. Instead of talking about loan forgiveness for worthless degrees from private colleges, why not make state tuition free. Let competition sort out who is who?

The runaway cost increases of higher education are a major sore spot for me. The cost, compared with the average income of a family of four, is insane.

It was not that way when I went to college.

Professor’s compensation has kept pace with inflation. They are not the problem.

Too much to go into in this thread, or I would be here all morning, but the administrators and leaders at most major universities are guilty on several counts.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I often find people are better at identifying imperfections than they are at understanding that many times something imperfect is still the best option available. We know what happens with zero inflation, we know what happens with negative inflation, and we know what happens with high inflation, so what is your recommendation?

Cap the money supply growth to some amount - say 5% a year. Its what most economists wanted when we went off the gold standard, but the politicians disagreed.

 

[Pablo]

Minimum wage - another stupid idea. Clearly doesn't work but people sold/brainwashed on the idea of helping the poor.

War on Poverty is a failure.

 

[jeepman3071]

p.s. years ago I heard a girl who looked to be 17 maybe, say this is BS, I'm getting $16. At a grocery store helping with bagging.

$16/hr is pretty dang good for bagging groceries. My student employees start around $18/hr now. With that said, she could've been referring to the treatment you receive working in customer service, not necessarily the pay. I make a lot more than minimum wage now, and have different stresses, but being treated like dog **** by the general public is not one of them. Sometimes I think back to when I was 16 making $8.50 an hour at Dunkin, times were simpler for sure, but then I remember how annoyed I was trying to keep my cool and not punch the lady through the window literally screaming at me because her coffee had 3 sugars in it instead of 2.

 

[jhellwig]

Most of you need a history lesson.

It isn't entitlement to expect to be paid enough to afford being able to go to a job and live. Minimum wage isn't enough to live on period. Both sides of the political spectrum see to that.

The only way it changes is for people to demand change. Just because you are living comfortably doesn't mean others aren't. The whole I got mine, you get yours mentality of people drives me crazy because all it does is destroy things.

 

[Dave Hess]

I was in Florida in January and a chain burger place had a sign where they were paying $25 per hour for part time help. The only problem is these jobs to not come with vacation, medical, dental and paid holidays therefore it's probably within reason. Part time employees should be treated decent and if not, find another job. As far as minimum wage a few years ago people were crying when they wanted to increase it to $15 per hour. It's amazing how everything from wages to consumer goods went up in price so quickly in a few years.

Where in Florida if you don’t mind me asking ?

Yes, benefits adds a lot to the base pay of any employee.

 

[jeepman3071]

Most of you need a history lesson.

It isn't entitlement to expect to be paid enough to afford being able to go to a job and live. Minimum wage isn't enough to live on period. Both sides of the political spectrum see to that.

The only way it changes is for people to demand change. Just because you are living comfortably doesn't mean others aren't. The whole I got mine, you get yours mentality of people drives me crazy because all it does is destroy things.

Part of it I think is the lack of "entry level" jobs that pay above minimum wage without requiring a college degree that have some kind of career path. Many of your basic administrative jobs require a college degree on the job application, when in reality they are typing things into Excel and e-mailing colleagues. I remember graduating college in 2014, and interviewing for an entry level $37k a year job where both the hiring manager and the director of the company were telling me how they started years ago at the company right out of high school and worked their way up, no degree, yet listed a degree and experience as a requirement on the application.

Some applications will say "equivalent experience" instead of a degree is acceptable, but where do you get experience if you can't get hired somewhere without a degree. I work at a university and feel education is important, but gone are the days where you can get your foot in the door right out of high school at a company and work your way up, which I think is hurting a significant amount of people with potential.

 

[andrew_j]

It’s a difficult topic cause so many places in the USA vary so much.

$3.35 an hour when I started working at 15 years old.

I told that to my kids and they thought I was joking.

I lived in NH and earned same in my teens.

College apparently was skilled with computer (unix jr admin) and precalc tutor so made $10/hr in 1990-1994.

 

[jhellwig]

Part of it I think is the lack of "entry level" jobs that pay above minimum wage without requiring a college degree that have some kind of career path. Many of your basic administrative jobs require a college degree on the job application, when in reality they are typing things into Excel and e-mailing colleagues. I remember graduating college in 2014, and interviewing for an entry level $37k a year job where both the hiring manager and the director of the company were telling me how they started years ago at the company right out of high school and worked their way up, no degree, yet listed a degree and experience as a requirement on the application.

Some applications will say "equivalent experience" instead of a degree is acceptable, but where do you get experience if you can't get hired somewhere without a degree. I work at a university and feel education is important, but gone are the days where you can get your foot in the door right out of high school at a company and work your way up, which I think is hurting a significant amount of people with potential.

I agree. Labor has turned into a resource to be extracted. If your resource is better quality then more profit for the people extracting it. Just like mining.

No one realizes that when politicians brag about job growth it isn't taking into account skilled jobs that automation/ outsourcing/ off shoring eliminated being replaced with service jobs that were traditionally filled by people wanting a little extra money. Since this is the system we created stuff has to change to accommodate or it will eat itself and collapse.

 

[alarmguy]

As a society on a whole we have a substantial amount of wealth. Nobody should be starving or homeless. Get someone stable, and if they want it nicer, then it's on them.
...

although good intentions, in the history of mankind it never works out well when a leader takes your money and gives it to others. This is what being free is about,"leave me alone"

No one in this country starves unless they are mentally incapable of seeking out the vast array of taxpayer provided support available. More is not needed, no one starves, available to everyone is government credit card to buy food. No one is turned down for emergency medical treatment either. Housing, that is on you to find and there is multiple government agencies to help with that too. Living free is a right, no society is perfect and I am not here to give away my fruits of my labor to someone else to give away as they see fit.