New Member seeking advice

[dnewton3]

Consider this about the oil volume:

I presume the intent was to make a point about how a Harley only has a small volume of engine oil, so the "stress" on the oil is greater. But actually, we can see the topic point towards my argument! Everyone wrap your noodle around the following logic.

The 6.6L Duramax holds 10 quarts of oil. That equates to .66 L per quart of oil.
The 6.0L PSD hold 15 quarts of oil. That equates to .4L/qrt.
The TC Harley engine (depending upon size/year) is around 1.5L and hold 3 (is that right?) quarts of oil. That equates to .5 L per quart of oil. That is right in the middle of the two diesel examples. The Harley is right on par with the diesel engines as far as engine size vs. lube capacity.
So, the diesel engines hold about the same ratio of lube, and the turbo in a truck get's as hot as the head on a Harley.

Starting to see the similarities? Starting to see why dino HDEOs are a good choice for a great price? The operating environment for most any Harley is no more or less demanding that a typical late-model turbo-diesel light duty truck. Why would ultra $$$ PAOs be "neccessary" in a Harley?

They are a luxury. Use them if you "want", but they are not "needed" for the safe, proper operation of your Harley.

 

[SKUNKY]

"Ha-Ha Here's the real story.... you suckers pay so much more for those glorified lawnmower-engined, retro-clown-bikes that you're deathly afraid that something might happen to their delicate insides, so you take no chances with oil or filters. Grow-up and listen to some real experts here and quit making fun of good advice.

HD air-cooled engines present no great challenge to a good HDEO oil and to use anything else more expensive is just plain snobbery, anal-retentiveness, and obsessiveness."

It must be getting cold in Colorado! Do you really think that the experts at HD graduated from the local jr. collage of knitting and basket weaving? How about we let those who ride decide. Have a great day and keep the shinny side up!

 

[fuel tanker man]

And you ride a sushi-sickle and are un-American. So there!

(removed for PSR)

(removed for PSR)

And the sport bikes are sort of like Billy Jean King and/or Martina Navratilova... in their prime, unbeatable at what they do... fast in their tennis shoes... got that butched hair look going on there... Probably wearing Birkenstocks and driving Subaru Outbacks in their off hours...

...so you see, I've got this other need... and the sushi-sickle don't cut it. But that's just me.

To the mods... !~!

And as you delete this post... I'm guessing you're still at least laughing... No??

Dan

 

[TucsonDon]

(removed for PSR)
That's a terrific analogy!

I have a Goldwing ... all smooth and silky Japanese technology.

And I've ridden Harleys.

The Harley ride was a blast -- all rumbly and loud and visceral.

I love my Goldwing and wouldn't trade it for anything. But there is simply something about Harleys. They're a blast.

 

[dnewton3]

"The Harley ride was a blast -- all rumbly and loud and visceral."

Agreed. I've had a few in my days of riding. Really enjoyed them, but the vibration got overwhelming. To some that matters, while not others. To each his own.

 

[SKUNKY]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Consider this about the oil volume:

I presume the intent was to make a point about how a Harley only has a small volume of engine oil, so the "stress" on the oil is greater. But actually, we can see the topic point towards my argument! Everyone wrap your noodle around the following logic.

The 6.6L Duramax holds 10 quarts of oil. That equates to .66 L per quart of oil.
The 6.0L PSD hold 15 quarts of oil. That equates to .4L/qrt.
The TC Harley engine (depending upon size/year) is around 1.5L and hold 3 (is that right?) quarts of oil. That equates to .5 L per quart of oil. That is right in the middle of the two diesel examples. The Harley is right on par with the diesel engines as far as engine size vs. lube capacity.
So, the diesel engines hold about the same ratio of lube, and the turbo in a truck get's as hot as the head on a Harley.

Starting to see the similarities? Starting to see why dino HDEOs are a good choice for a great price? The operating environment for most any Harley is no more or less demanding that a typical late-model turbo-diesel light duty truck. Why would ultra $$$ PAOs be "neccessary" in a Harley?

They are a luxury. Use them if you "want", but they are not "needed" for the safe, proper operation of your Harley.




Ok..how about this ..."Father, please forgive him. He's young and rides a FJR Kawayahonski." Wait...so do I....and I use the JD Power Plus 15-40. Just don't run it in your HD Bro's. PS..your noodle must be bigger then mine. I don't get the similarities or the logic.

 

[bonnie john]

i've owned my '92 fatboy since new, prolly a bit ana1 about maintenance

i have used lots of combinations, from the most expensive MOTUL 300 V and their corrseponding gear oil through to the cheapest "in spec" oil i could find, all changed out at about 2,000 miles

this may seem waaaaaaaaay too excessive to most folks, but is a carryover from my days of bonneville and commando ownership. where the oil HAD to be changed at 1,000-1500 because it could not deal with the non existant oil filters, leaky air filters and multigrades which were incapable of surviving in virtual race engined street bikes

the power these engines put out was achieved by their original designs being "upsized" by as much as 50-60% ( eg norton 500cc eventually 850cc) and the use of twin carb heads, hi com pistons and radical cams

and this was all on power units originally designed with about 7:1 compressions and used for everything from commuting to sidecar usage to weekend track events to balls-out racing

for my hd, i've settled on PENRITE 20w60 dual rated gas/diesel lube, CASTROL DEX 3 rated atf in the primary and good ol MOBIL gear oil in the 'box. all cheap and available anywhere

the hd is SOOOOO much better built than the brits, and takes advantage of more modern materials and production techniques, and after nearly 18 years of ownership, i'm happy to use any known brand within spec

i'm over the boutique brigade

 

[boulevard]

Now that theres funny, I don,t care who you are!

 

[boraticus]

I think we have to be a little more "understanding" of the typical Harely guy's plight. After all, once Willie G. has bored a two inch hole in their heads and dumped in a few quarts of his marketing [censored], they're a little sensitized.

 

[SKUNKY]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
I think we have to be a little more "understanding" of the typical Harely guy's plight. After all, once Willie G. has bored a two inch hole in their heads and dumped in a few quarts of his marketing [censored], they're a little sensitized.


Well...that was a low blow.

The diesel oil THEORY is just that ..a THEORY. I don't see anyone here offering to buy a HD and run the diesel oil for 100k to test that THEORY!!! BTW..a couple of days ago, I looked under the hood of my buddies F-350 twin turbo 6.4 Diesel. It had 6 (six) oil coolers..including one for each turbo. Now..why do you think Ford did that when they run a hardy diesel oil? You'd think they would recommend a 5-20 oil for all that equipment they had under the hood..including a huge fan.

 

[bonnie john]

"WHAT OIL SHOULD I USE IF I CAN'T FIND HARLEY-DAVIDSON MOTOR OIL?"
"Harley recommends that if for some reason you are unable to obtain Genuine Harley Motor Oil, to use a heavy duty diesel motor oil, available at truck stops. These are labeled with an API "C" Performance Categor such as "CF-2, CG-4", etc"

this is an excert from a pamplet titled "Harley-Davidson* H-D360 Motorcycle Oil", part number 93828, issued by hd themselves and given to me about 7 years ago by MORGAN AND WACKER, the official south pacific distributors of hd and buell motorcycles

theory ???

i don't think so

 

[SKUNKY]

Originally Posted By: bonnie john
"WHAT OIL SHOULD I USE IF I CAN'T FIND HARLEY-DAVIDSON MOTOR OIL?"
"Harley recommends that if for some reason you are unable to obtain Genuine Harley Motor Oil, to use a heavy duty diesel motor oil, available at truck stops. These are labeled with an API "C" Performance Categor such as "CF-2, CG-4", etc"

this is an excert from a pamplet titled "Harley-Davidson* H-D360 Motorcycle Oil", part number 93828, issued by hd themselves and given to me about 7 years ago by MORGAN AND WACKER, the official south pacific distributors of hd and buell motorcycles

theory ???

i don't think so


But..you didn't finish the paragraph...it says to change the oil as soon as possible...don't keep using it for 100k miles!

 

[boulevard]

Just a thought but, maybe they are saying is, quick, change the oil back to our high dollar oil. They wouldn't want you to get to used to better oil at a cheaper price. Like I said "Just a thought"

 

[bonnie john]

I have done no such editing or abbreviating

NOWHERE ON THAT OFFICIAL HARLEY DAVIDSON PAMPHLET DOES IT SAY TO CHANGE OUT THE DIESEL OIL ASAP !!!

so unless you can quote your source, please stop spreading mis-information, i.e. telling porkies


Originally Posted By: SKUNKY
Originally Posted By: bonnie john
"WHAT OIL SHOULD I USE IF I CAN'T FIND HARLEY-DAVIDSON MOTOR OIL?"
"Harley recommends that if for some reason you are unable to obtain Genuine Harley Motor Oil, to use a heavy duty diesel motor oil, available at truck stops. These are labeled with an API "C" Performance Categor such as "CF-2, CG-4", etc"

this is an excert from a pamplet titled "Harley-Davidson* H-D360 Motorcycle Oil", part number 93828, issued by hd themselves and given to me about 7 years ago by MORGAN AND WACKER, the official south pacific distributors of hd and buell motorcycles

theory ???

i don't think so


But..you didn't finish the paragraph...it says to change the oil as soon as possible...don't keep using it for 100k miles!

 

[SKUNKY]

In the HD Owner's Manual it says "If it is necessary to add oil and HD oil is not available use an oil certified for diesel engines. Acceptable diesel engine oils designations include: CF-4, CG-4, CH-4 and CI-4. The preferred viscosities for diesel engine oils in descending order are 20W50, 15W50 and 10W40. At the first opportunity, see an authorized dealer to change back to 100 percent HD oil."

Rotella and other diesel oil:
Diesel engines run much higher compression ratios than gas engines and they run a lot hotter, so the oil is formulated to deal with this. At first we would think this to be an ideal scenario for our performance engines...but they produce a lot more dirt in terms of combustion by-products. Diesel-rated oils typically have more detergents in them to deal with this. This is where the problem comes in....it's not unheard of for diesel oils to clean a gas engine so well that it loses compression. Diesel-rated oils also have an anti-foaming agent in them which is unique to diesel engines, and not needed in gas engines. So what are the advantages?....the CF rating

RE: Chevron Delo 15 40 Oil

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Delo is good for diesels but NOT for air cooled HD's your longevity will be shortened. It doesent have the additive package for motorcycles. Go online and find a Chevron oil rep and they will explain the differences. Ive been in the transportation maintenance business for 35+ years and looked into oil products, they have a specific application. I remember my 99 owners manual said you could in a pinch use non detergent diesel oil, but to immediately change it right away.
__________________
Last year when the crack in my Evo left side case&nbsp\\; (caused by idiot using sheet metal screw on alternator lead clamp) got so bad the oil pooled under the bike whenever I parked it, I used some Rotella 15W-40 and some Delo 15W-40 that I had left over from the winter riding season.
Both these otherwise excellent oils were not up to the task of 100+ F days.
I could ride to work in the early morning, about 44 miles, average temps about 75 - 80 F, with no problems at all.
I could ride home from work with no problem unless I pushed it up to 80+ for the last leg of 12 miles.
When I went on my usual Saturday rides, normally 200 to 400 miles, at about the 100 mile mark the engine would start acting up, clanking, rattling, etc.
I hit Wally World and grabbed some Super Tech 20W-50 and the problem went away.
My conclusion is that the 40 weight was too thin.
At any rate, I got through the summer on the ol' Sloptail, and then started riding the Nightster while going through the old bike.

We can be hypothetical, we can all claim oil 1 is better than oil 2, but the bottom line is that Harley provides a spec for your oil, after millions of dollars of development and years of testing. And while many people here sell all types of products and services, none of us have the experience that the engineers at Harley and Porsche have. I don't know how to measure 'shear resistance' on an oil, and I don't care if oil 1 sticks to a piece of metal better than oil 2, bubblegum does also! No one that I have ever heard of has had a problem going with what the factory recommends.

These are all quotes from various sites..so, take it or leave it...I DON'T CARE..it's your money, do what you want. Golly Gee, now I understand why Mori quit. See ya..Joe

 

[bonnie john]

dry sump engines invariably have a return oil pump which has at least twice the capacity of the feed, therefore the pump returns a mixture of oil and air.

a good case for anti-foam additives ?

"alot more detergents" "clean an engine so well that it looses compression" i tore the topend off at about 45,000 miles, lots of carbon, but that was from leaky stem seals. all good in the ring pack and lands. what is your take on auto rx? it sounds like it does the same thing

"at a pinch you could use a NON DETERGENT diesel oil, but to immediately change it right away" . wrong oil, anyway you look at it

i agree, 40 weight is too thin. i don't know what temps you have, generally 18-30 deg C with extremes from 5 - 45

joe, i am not claiming 1 oil is better than the other. maybe i wasn't quite clear when i referred to "diesel" oils. i use a diesel oil which is dual rated, i.e. CH-4/SJ

and in nearly 18 years of ownership, i have yet to experience any oil related probs

friends ?

 

[5wleeb]

This is from a guy who has been riding 2 wheels for 40+ years, from dirt to street, over 10 different bikes and many brands (but never a HD)....What are the specs of the HD oil vs the many other oils in question? I am somewhat new to this site and am amazed at all the knowledge, opinions, and information. The last I knew...... HD does not make motor oil, just as Yamaha does not manufacture its oil. But, as an example, a manufacturer recommended 15w-40 oil can be found made by many brands. If you trust the API and the specific brand of oil telling the truth..... why wouldn't it "work" as well as oil in a Yamaha or HD bottle of oil? From the oil specs I have looked at there is always a "range" of all the numbers. I have always followed the manufacture advice on when to change and so far have not had a oil related break down in all my years and all my miles. Maybe I'm just lucky?....Thanks for the intertaining discussion.

 

[ZGRider]

Ever notice how the discussion of oils in HD engines always takes a turn for the negative? Why is this? Is there some subtle psychology going on?

And why does the discussion always premise around what HD recommends? Are we not intellegent enough about motor oil to look past the obvious? We all know that HD doesn't even make their own oil, so isn't it just a matter of brand and type?

Why is there so much sensitivity with Harleys and lubrication?

Maybe the HD guys can't engage in an intellectual discussion about the merits of their M/C? Is that it? Could it be all the profiling, poker-runs, polishing, and parading reduces their credibility and objectivity and it really is only about the emotional aspects of the sport?

Just pondering this phenomenom........and pass the straight 60wt oil already !!

 

[bonnie john]

male menopause ...

which is why most of my efforts are now about resurrecting a '69 BSA ROCKET III

 

[boulevard]

I don't understand why people come to this site, ask questions about oil,get advise from knowledgeable people, then get all bent out of shape because they don't want to hear that there may be something a little better that they could be using in there HD's. So go buy the HD oil and go back to the HD web site where all the HD people can flex their muscles. I thought this was about learning to keep these machines running at their best.