Hear, here
Must..have...the.....corporate......logo.......on......... everything..........
Must..have...the.....corporate......logo.......on......... everything..........
New Member seeking advice
- Thread starter Cam53
- Start date
- Status
Diesel oils can over clean a gas engine to the point that it losses compression? Huh? Is that true? How?
I wear a 20 year old HD branded jacket coz it's THE BEST available. made in australia, i think its a "panhead". the arms unzip if you want to wear it as a vest. after 40 years of riding, this was 1 of the best investments i ever made. and you'd have to look real close to find the brand, i think it's on the chest zip pull
no badges, no tats, no hd undies, earings, boots, jeans, bandanas, vests, patches, conchos (sp?) genitalia adornments or piercings. no "don't f with my bike" sticker, no "support your local ( whatever ) chapter" tee shirts, no brokeback mountain chaps.
just 1 special belt buckle which i don't wear
oh wait, i have a chain drive wallet. bought it 6 years ago, was with my b.i.l. and he got a counter lunch, my wallet was the same price, no contest, missed a meal. made in usa, still as good as new
am i the only 1 ???
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Hear, here
Must..have...the.....corporate......logo.......on......... everything..........
no badges, no tats, no hd undies, earings, boots, jeans, bandanas, vests, patches, conchos (sp?) genitalia adornments or piercings. no "don't f with my bike" sticker, no "support your local ( whatever ) chapter" tee shirts, no brokeback mountain chaps.
just 1 special belt buckle which i don't wear
oh wait, i have a chain drive wallet. bought it 6 years ago, was with my b.i.l. and he got a counter lunch, my wallet was the same price, no contest, missed a meal. made in usa, still as good as new
am i the only 1 ???
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Hear, here
Must..have...the.....corporate......logo.......on......... everything..........
I would much rather have a capable 15-40 HDEO drip on the ground than an expensive ester based oil.
Originally Posted By: beanoil
I would much rather have a capable 15-40 HDEO drip on the ground than an expensive ester based oil.
Ooooohhhhhh...... You did not just go there!
Signed,
Very happy Honda owner
I would much rather have a capable 15-40 HDEO drip on the ground than an expensive ester based oil.
Ooooohhhhhh...... You did not just go there!
Signed,
Very happy Honda owner
Last edited:
Cam53,
You will be fine running Rotella or another HDEO oil Harley. I think that Mobil 1 15w50 "auto" oil would be a good deal for you too.
I dont think that alot of guys on here know how hot an air cooled Harley can get with stop and go traffic especially if still running in a VERY lean factory setup. To quick to Harley bash than to look into ALL the facts.
For what it is worth I run Rotella 15w40 in my 102ci air cool pushrod Vtwin with a shared transmission/wet clutch. I have had no issue's. I stay away from the 5w40 because its shears quite badly after 1000 miles.
I have seen some 50wt oils shear to 40wt pretty quickly but the Rotella 15w40 hold grade pretty well.
You will be fine running Rotella or another HDEO oil Harley. I think that Mobil 1 15w50 "auto" oil would be a good deal for you too.
I dont think that alot of guys on here know how hot an air cooled Harley can get with stop and go traffic especially if still running in a VERY lean factory setup. To quick to Harley bash than to look into ALL the facts.
For what it is worth I run Rotella 15w40 in my 102ci air cool pushrod Vtwin with a shared transmission/wet clutch. I have had no issue's. I stay away from the 5w40 because its shears quite badly after 1000 miles.
I have seen some 50wt oils shear to 40wt pretty quickly but the Rotella 15w40 hold grade pretty well.
I'm sorry to say but a great majority of HD owners ride HD because in their minds, the machine projects attitude, which in turn make them feel that they also have "attitude". It's mostly delusional as is their misconceived notions that Harleys require "special" treatment regarding all aspects of maintenance. Just another product of Willie G boring a one inch hole in their heads and dumping in a couple quarts of good old Milwaukee B-S.
Lets face it. HD is a machine. It's not a particularly sophisticated one either. I've seen old air cooled Japanese engines pounded mercilessly for twenty years in conditions that one wouldn't think possible. They ran and ran and ran with nothing but 15W40 oil changes at regular intervals.
There is nothing a HD rider hates more than a reality check.
Lets face it. HD is a machine. It's not a particularly sophisticated one either. I've seen old air cooled Japanese engines pounded mercilessly for twenty years in conditions that one wouldn't think possible. They ran and ran and ran with nothing but 15W40 oil changes at regular intervals.
There is nothing a HD rider hates more than a reality check.
Originally Posted By: boraticus
I'm sorry to say but a great majority of HD owners ride HD because in their minds, the machine projects attitude, which in turn make them feel that they also have "attitude". It's mostly delusional as is their misconceived notions that Harleys require "special" treatment regarding all aspects of maintenance. Just another product of Willie G boring a one inch hole in their heads and dumping in a couple quarts of good old Milwaukee B-S.
I ride a Harley because it is fun. I don't drink the Harley kool-aid either. But there are many out there who fit your description and they are very annoying...almost to the point where I am ready to get a Honda VTX or a Yamaha Raider S. But after owning Harleys for several years my opinion of them has changed somewhat. There are issues with many of them that point to the fact that Harley quality is definitely slipping. Many of the problems I see with fellow riders are issues that should have been caught at the factory or even at the design tube. I could go into specifics on my bike but that is not important. But when I shop for a new bike I will look at 4 different manufacturers now.
That said...my bike runs better on 20w50 than 15w40. So I use 20w50 synthetic I get on sale. AND..none of my Harleys has ever leaked a drop of oil.
I'm sorry to say but a great majority of HD owners ride HD because in their minds, the machine projects attitude, which in turn make them feel that they also have "attitude". It's mostly delusional as is their misconceived notions that Harleys require "special" treatment regarding all aspects of maintenance. Just another product of Willie G boring a one inch hole in their heads and dumping in a couple quarts of good old Milwaukee B-S.
I ride a Harley because it is fun. I don't drink the Harley kool-aid either. But there are many out there who fit your description and they are very annoying...almost to the point where I am ready to get a Honda VTX or a Yamaha Raider S. But after owning Harleys for several years my opinion of them has changed somewhat. There are issues with many of them that point to the fact that Harley quality is definitely slipping. Many of the problems I see with fellow riders are issues that should have been caught at the factory or even at the design tube. I could go into specifics on my bike but that is not important. But when I shop for a new bike I will look at 4 different manufacturers now.
That said...my bike runs better on 20w50 than 15w40. So I use 20w50 synthetic I get on sale. AND..none of my Harleys has ever leaked a drop of oil.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Lets face it. HD is a machine. It's not a particularly sophisticated one either.
Ain't that the truth. But, most people that ride Harleys are so into the image that you can sell them anything with the Harley logo. To be a real bad@$$, you HAVE to use Harley oil! They probably believe Harley actually makes the stuff. BTW, who makes Harley oil? I don't know, it could be made by Harley but I doubt it.
PT1 appears to be an exception to the rule.
Lets face it. HD is a machine. It's not a particularly sophisticated one either.
Ain't that the truth. But, most people that ride Harleys are so into the image that you can sell them anything with the Harley logo. To be a real bad@$$, you HAVE to use Harley oil! They probably believe Harley actually makes the stuff. BTW, who makes Harley oil? I don't know, it could be made by Harley but I doubt it.
PT1 appears to be an exception to the rule.
citgo
but why would you care???
but why would you care???
Originally Posted By: boraticus
It's not truly HD oil unless it's wrung out of Willie G's hair.
ahhh... a Mark 1 moke-tarder.
Didn't know we had those hangin' aroun here.
It's not truly HD oil unless it's wrung out of Willie G's hair.
ahhh... a Mark 1 moke-tarder.
Didn't know we had those hangin' aroun here.
Most of the Harley owners that I know down here run 15w50 Mobil One in their bikes because of the high temps here and the good price at WW. I don't know any who only run HD oil in their bike, well, maybe one guy. I don't actually know what he runs, but he would be the guy...
I would run Harley oil, no problem. It have seen good UOA's with the syn. But it would come down to price and most things from the motor company demands a premium because of the logo.
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Ever notice how the discussion of oils in HD engines always takes a turn for the negative? Why is this? Is there some subtle psychology going on?
And why does the discussion always premise around what HD recommends? Are we not intellegent enough about motor oil to look past the obvious? We all know that HD doesn't even make their own oil, so isn't it just a matter of brand and type?
Why is there so much sensitivity with Harleys and lubrication?
Maybe the HD guys can't engage in an intellectual discussion about the merits of their M/C? Is that it? Could it be all the profiling, poker-runs, polishing, and parading reduces their credibility and objectivity and it really is only about the emotional aspects of the sport?
Just pondering this phenomenom........and pass the straight 60wt oil already !!
Could it be because folks were debating oil and motorcycles pretty respectfully for about a page and a half and then you, yourself, started the personal insults and negativity?
"Ha-Ha Here's the real story.... you suckers pay so much more for those glorified lawnmower-engined, retro-clown-bikes that you're deathly afraid that something might happen to their delicate insides, so you take no chances with oil or filters. Grow-up and listen to some real experts here and quit making fun of good advice.
HD air-cooled engines present no great challenge to a good HDEO oil and to use anything else more expensive is just plain snobbery, anal-retentiveness, and obsessiveness."
Ever notice how the discussion of oils in HD engines always takes a turn for the negative? Why is this? Is there some subtle psychology going on?
And why does the discussion always premise around what HD recommends? Are we not intellegent enough about motor oil to look past the obvious? We all know that HD doesn't even make their own oil, so isn't it just a matter of brand and type?
Why is there so much sensitivity with Harleys and lubrication?
Maybe the HD guys can't engage in an intellectual discussion about the merits of their M/C? Is that it? Could it be all the profiling, poker-runs, polishing, and parading reduces their credibility and objectivity and it really is only about the emotional aspects of the sport?
Just pondering this phenomenom........and pass the straight 60wt oil already !!
Could it be because folks were debating oil and motorcycles pretty respectfully for about a page and a half and then you, yourself, started the personal insults and negativity?
"Ha-Ha Here's the real story.... you suckers pay so much more for those glorified lawnmower-engined, retro-clown-bikes that you're deathly afraid that something might happen to their delicate insides, so you take no chances with oil or filters. Grow-up and listen to some real experts here and quit making fun of good advice.
HD air-cooled engines present no great challenge to a good HDEO oil and to use anything else more expensive is just plain snobbery, anal-retentiveness, and obsessiveness."
FLHRGator, my thoughts too.
Same kinda stuff happened in a thread I started when asking about Asmoil SAE 60 in an older Harley, awhile back. I kept my sense of humor, though.
Happened in another thread about HD chrome oil filters too.
Seems to be just a couple of people trying to stir up the [censored], and rattle cages, but what can you expect.............
It's the internet!!
Being respectful doesn't seem to mean much to some.
Same kinda stuff happened in a thread I started when asking about Asmoil SAE 60 in an older Harley, awhile back. I kept my sense of humor, though.
Happened in another thread about HD chrome oil filters too.
Seems to be just a couple of people trying to stir up the [censored], and rattle cages, but what can you expect.............
It's the internet!!
Being respectful doesn't seem to mean much to some.
welcome aboard mate
great first post, straight for the jugular
stick around, please introduce yourself and make yourself at home
regards, johnny
Originally Posted By: FLHRGator
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Ever notice how the discussion of oils in HD engines always takes a turn for the negative? Why is this? Is there some subtle psychology going on?
And why does the discussion always premise around what HD recommends? Are we not intellegent enough about motor oil to look past the obvious? We all know that HD doesn't even make their own oil, so isn't it just a matter of brand and type?
Why is there so much sensitivity with Harleys and lubrication?
Maybe the HD guys can't engage in an intellectual discussion about the merits of their M/C? Is that it? Could it be all the profiling, poker-runs, polishing, and parading reduces their credibility and objectivity and it really is only about the emotional aspects of the sport?
Just pondering this phenomenom........and pass the straight 60wt oil already !!
Could it be because folks were debating oil and motorcycles pretty respectfully for about a page and a half and then you, yourself, started the personal insults and negativity?
"Ha-Ha Here's the real story.... you suckers pay so much more for those glorified lawnmower-engined, retro-clown-bikes that you're deathly afraid that something might happen to their delicate insides, so you take no chances with oil or filters. Grow-up and listen to some real experts here and quit making fun of good advice.
HD air-cooled engines present no great challenge to a good HDEO oil and to use anything else more expensive is just plain snobbery, anal-retentiveness, and obsessiveness."
great first post, straight for the jugular
stick around, please introduce yourself and make yourself at home
regards, johnny
Originally Posted By: FLHRGator
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Ever notice how the discussion of oils in HD engines always takes a turn for the negative? Why is this? Is there some subtle psychology going on?
And why does the discussion always premise around what HD recommends? Are we not intellegent enough about motor oil to look past the obvious? We all know that HD doesn't even make their own oil, so isn't it just a matter of brand and type?
Why is there so much sensitivity with Harleys and lubrication?
Maybe the HD guys can't engage in an intellectual discussion about the merits of their M/C? Is that it? Could it be all the profiling, poker-runs, polishing, and parading reduces their credibility and objectivity and it really is only about the emotional aspects of the sport?
Just pondering this phenomenom........and pass the straight 60wt oil already !!
Could it be because folks were debating oil and motorcycles pretty respectfully for about a page and a half and then you, yourself, started the personal insults and negativity?
"Ha-Ha Here's the real story.... you suckers pay so much more for those glorified lawnmower-engined, retro-clown-bikes that you're deathly afraid that something might happen to their delicate insides, so you take no chances with oil or filters. Grow-up and listen to some real experts here and quit making fun of good advice.
HD air-cooled engines present no great challenge to a good HDEO oil and to use anything else more expensive is just plain snobbery, anal-retentiveness, and obsessiveness."
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The reality is that I don't know of any Harley engine that failed due to lubricant brand/grade selection issues, if a reasonable choice was made. Engineering design and inconsistent manufacturing quality are different stories, however ...
Show me the evidence where a Harley engine failed becaues of the use of HDEO, but some super-premium mega-$$$ PAO would have saved the day; maybe then I'll see the factual basis.
We've been over this time and time again. The heat in the Harley TC engine is no hotter than the heat in a turbo-charger on a light-duty diesel truck pulling a 10k pound travel trailer up the Rockies. Sustained EGTs can get up to 1250 degF, and short bursts can go as high as 1500 deg F. And the only thing cooling the turbo is the oil. Further, today's CJ-4 fluids are designed for serious EGR use; talk about a highly designed package. Does your Harley recycle it's spent exhaust back into the engine to dump yet more heat and soot into the cylinder?????? Not for one second to I believe that a Harley engine is any harder on oil than a highly loaded diesel engine. Think your Harley gets any hotter sitting at stop light than does that diesel truck pulliing the camper, when it pulls to the top of a long off ramp in the mountains, and then sits there waiting it's turn to enter the right of way? I'm not saying that Harleys are not hard on oil; they can be. But today's HDEOs are robust for their operating environment as well.
I have no objection to people using the brand/grade they feel is most appropriate for their ride.
But let the opinions stop at the door of factual basis. Show us the UOAs indicating dino HDEO caused major wear, but PAOs would have prevented it. Show me the tear down photos where HDEO trashed any engine, but PAOs could have stopped the plight. Engine failures are typically due to some engineering flaw, or manufacturing defect. As long as you use a reasonable selection for brand/grade of oil, the lubricant will not be the cause of damage or excessive wear. Could you use a mundane PCMO 5w-20 in a Harley? Maybe, but I would not advise it! But a quality 15w40 dino HDEO? Sure, for a long time.
Geeze - most guys dump the oil out of their Harley LONG before it's used up anyway, regardless of brand or grade. Their lives are an obsession, with committment to babying their baby. I'm OK with that, and apparently so are they.
This same argument got twisted around when we discussed the Harley "5um" filter and it's "need" for use on the TC engine. But when Wix bought some of the Harley "5um" super-duper filters and tested them for filter efficiency, they found that the Harley "5um" premium filter performed no better than the Wix 51348 (a widely used, common filter with no "special" attributes).
If some people want to use high-end products on their Harley, that's perfectly well and good. Just don't try to convince the rest of us that it's "needed". It's a "want" for you, but not a "necessity" for the engine.
Well my friend, you are wrong.The KW that I run never see's oil temps above 200* even when pulling the rockies. My HD see's 280* at its hottest and 230 to 240 avg. You cant in no way compare a truck to an air cooled bike for an oil's ability to hold up in the high heat of an air cooled HD. When the oil reaches that 230* temp it stays there and gets hotter in trafic.
The reality is that I don't know of any Harley engine that failed due to lubricant brand/grade selection issues, if a reasonable choice was made. Engineering design and inconsistent manufacturing quality are different stories, however ...
Show me the evidence where a Harley engine failed becaues of the use of HDEO, but some super-premium mega-$$$ PAO would have saved the day; maybe then I'll see the factual basis.
We've been over this time and time again. The heat in the Harley TC engine is no hotter than the heat in a turbo-charger on a light-duty diesel truck pulling a 10k pound travel trailer up the Rockies. Sustained EGTs can get up to 1250 degF, and short bursts can go as high as 1500 deg F. And the only thing cooling the turbo is the oil. Further, today's CJ-4 fluids are designed for serious EGR use; talk about a highly designed package. Does your Harley recycle it's spent exhaust back into the engine to dump yet more heat and soot into the cylinder?????? Not for one second to I believe that a Harley engine is any harder on oil than a highly loaded diesel engine. Think your Harley gets any hotter sitting at stop light than does that diesel truck pulliing the camper, when it pulls to the top of a long off ramp in the mountains, and then sits there waiting it's turn to enter the right of way? I'm not saying that Harleys are not hard on oil; they can be. But today's HDEOs are robust for their operating environment as well.
I have no objection to people using the brand/grade they feel is most appropriate for their ride.
But let the opinions stop at the door of factual basis. Show us the UOAs indicating dino HDEO caused major wear, but PAOs would have prevented it. Show me the tear down photos where HDEO trashed any engine, but PAOs could have stopped the plight. Engine failures are typically due to some engineering flaw, or manufacturing defect. As long as you use a reasonable selection for brand/grade of oil, the lubricant will not be the cause of damage or excessive wear. Could you use a mundane PCMO 5w-20 in a Harley? Maybe, but I would not advise it! But a quality 15w40 dino HDEO? Sure, for a long time.
Geeze - most guys dump the oil out of their Harley LONG before it's used up anyway, regardless of brand or grade. Their lives are an obsession, with committment to babying their baby. I'm OK with that, and apparently so are they.
This same argument got twisted around when we discussed the Harley "5um" filter and it's "need" for use on the TC engine. But when Wix bought some of the Harley "5um" super-duper filters and tested them for filter efficiency, they found that the Harley "5um" premium filter performed no better than the Wix 51348 (a widely used, common filter with no "special" attributes).
If some people want to use high-end products on their Harley, that's perfectly well and good. Just don't try to convince the rest of us that it's "needed". It's a "want" for you, but not a "necessity" for the engine.
Well my friend, you are wrong.The KW that I run never see's oil temps above 200* even when pulling the rockies. My HD see's 280* at its hottest and 230 to 240 avg. You cant in no way compare a truck to an air cooled bike for an oil's ability to hold up in the high heat of an air cooled HD. When the oil reaches that 230* temp it stays there and gets hotter in trafic.
Well, as I have pointed out many times to some unknowledgeable HD riders, The TC engines have almost NO plain bearings and nearly all parts run in roller or ball bearings. Anyone who has worked on 2-stroke engines which also have roller bearing crankshafts, can verify that they live on just the little oil that is delivered to the bearings mixed with the gasoline coming into the engine. Now if a 2-stroke (many of which are air-cooled too!) can live a long time with that tiny bit of lubrication, how much longer will a HD TC engine live with high quality HDEO oil and a modern oil pumping system?
Nearly forever is the answer !!
There is almost nothing in that engine that will shear down oil, no shared transmission, few plain bearings, no flat tappets, nothing !! Everything runs in roller or ball bearings which need little lubrication and especially not synthetic oil. Heat has little effect in this environment. Heck, they used to use castor-bean oil in 2-stroke engines and they loved it and lasted a long time.
Now, what part of this post was negative or bashing? Just the facts.
Accept it or dispute it, but stop acting like another victim class -- "We're just poor pitiful HD riders just trying to get some oil information, don't hate on us."
Nearly forever is the answer !!
There is almost nothing in that engine that will shear down oil, no shared transmission, few plain bearings, no flat tappets, nothing !! Everything runs in roller or ball bearings which need little lubrication and especially not synthetic oil. Heat has little effect in this environment. Heck, they used to use castor-bean oil in 2-stroke engines and they loved it and lasted a long time.
Now, what part of this post was negative or bashing? Just the facts.
Accept it or dispute it, but stop acting like another victim class -- "We're just poor pitiful HD riders just trying to get some oil information, don't hate on us."
Last edited:
Further to ZGRider's comments about two strokes.
I have several old two stroke Yamaha RDs. Two are restored and slightly power enhanced. One is a 350cc and the other is a 400cc each engine will spin past 10000 rpm and is making close to 45 h.p. at the rear wheel. That's more than one h.p. per 10ccs. These are early 1970s technology air cooled engines. I can flog them all day with no worries. If these little engines can make that kind of power sipping frugal amounts of two stroke oil without blowing up, I'm certain that slow turning,mildly stressed, large cube,low horse power HD engines should hold up just fine with any HDEO.
I have several old two stroke Yamaha RDs. Two are restored and slightly power enhanced. One is a 350cc and the other is a 400cc each engine will spin past 10000 rpm and is making close to 45 h.p. at the rear wheel. That's more than one h.p. per 10ccs. These are early 1970s technology air cooled engines. I can flog them all day with no worries. If these little engines can make that kind of power sipping frugal amounts of two stroke oil without blowing up, I'm certain that slow turning,mildly stressed, large cube,low horse power HD engines should hold up just fine with any HDEO.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked