New Lawn

[benjamming]

I have settled on sowing common Bermuda grass seed. We have ~ 15k ft2 to sow. A soil analysis has been done & is the basis for the lime & fertilizer additive #s below.

The pH was 5.2 - just right for blueberries.
P - low, K - medium, magnesium & calcium - high.

I have planned on doing the following:
aerate the soil - probably rent one? Any recommendations for a new one?
spread pelletized dolomitic lime - 50#/1,000ft2
spread seed - how much?
spread fertilizer - 8#/1,000ft2

They also recommended 10# sulfur per acre per year as well. Why? I would imagine other fertilizer would have enough but will double check.

I don't plan on laying hay due to several reasons with one reason being all the other seed the hay will bring in.

Anything wrong with this or any other nuggets of wisdom for a new yard? The area was completely wooded last June. We have brought in some topsoil.

 

[MarkC]

Ah yes, the continuing American devotion to monocrop lawns.

 

[MarkC]

Ah yes, the continuing American devotion to monocrop lawns. Why didn't you want to leave it wooded?

 

[Pablo]

Actually nothing wrong with a proper lawn. In the early 1990's the Arbor Day foundation said so. A "good" lawn does not take megadoses of chemicals, just plenty of humus type materials. And a lawn is a GREAT O2 producer! (and CO2 eater) Surely mix in some friendly trees, etc if you don't need a play area for the kids.

Use more seed than they say. (I can't be specific for your seed type, climate, etc)Get the most drought resistant seed for your area.

Lime sounds like it's required. I've never used S, why? pH is low. What is their reasoning? What about gypsum (Ca2SO4)?

What do you mean "aerate"? Before seeding? Just till the he~~ out of it. REALLY deep!

 

[JayhawkRoy]

Here's what I found:
Certified bermudagrass seed should be planted at a rate of 1 pound of seed per 1,000 sq. ft. Spring and summer plantings should utilize hulled bermudagrass seed for faster germination.

I'm with Pablo on tilling vs just aeration. Tilling reasonably deep aerates enough by itself. Aeration should probably be done annually, once the lawn is established. If you have a garden tractor, I have had good luck with AgriFab 42" plug aerator and their large pull behind spreader.

 

[benjamming]

Quote:

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Ah yes, the continuing American devotion to monocrop lawns. Why didn't you want to leave it wooded?

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We have 3 acres total. The house is 3500 ft2 with a 175x85' yard. The rest is still wooded. The front yard still has some trees as well. Note: this is not in a subdivision.

 

[benjamming]

I thought about tilling 4" deep or so. Then I thought that I would just plug aerate it due to fears of destroying the soil structure - but I don't know.

I don't have a yard tractor. Heck, I don't even have a lawn mower, push nor riding. I have lived in an apartment for the last 10 years so everything will be newly purchased. I just bought a string trimmer last Friday - Stihl FS 45 for $140; a small one but should be plenty. I do have a couple of grandpa's, a dad, & a father-in-law about 100 miles away that are very willing to help me with the yard from bringing a tiller, or giving me an old one that I can fix, to hauling their riding lawn mower to pull the aerator.

 

[Pablo]

You'll need a tiller now. Later, probably not. Unless you garden.

 

[Jaybird]

I would suggest using Roundup or similar complete herbicide to remove all the existing grass and weeds.

You can seed the new lawn using a lawn renovator/seeder, and it will aerate the dirt as it places the seed.

Using wheat straw as a starting cover isn't a bad thing, as it has very few "other" seeds in it, unlike hay does.

I like bermuda and zoysia grasses, but don't they get brown in the winter?
I have found that Ky Bluegrass and the newer "turf type" tall fecues are the best yards. (lots of R&D gone into the latter of late)

 

[benjamming]

I don't have a problem with brown grass anyway. I don't care anything about mowing the lawn in December.

Do I not need to spread the lime prior to seeding or does the order of lime, seed, fertilizer matter? Any time requirements here?

I plan on using the trimmer to take care of all the large weeds, which is only a 15 minute job if I'm slow. It's really still just a dirt yard although some bermuda is starting to come up along with weeds. Will the bermuda not take over once it's seeded or are the current weeds really going to be a problem?

Pablo,
We do have a garden, instead of kids

. We just used a hoe this year to break it up. So, we will need one eventually. My grandpa has one that has lost compression so I may just rebuild it. He's not going to use it as he has a Troy-Bilt that still works.

 

[Shannow]

The former owner of my place used "liquid lawnmower" (roundup) four time a year, almost forever. My yard was a flat hard pan of clay (and coal ash).

Tried the "traditional" methods of growing grass (all except excavating it and starting with fresh soil).

Read a few books on pasture, and decided to let nature work.

First invasion was thorny prickly, deep rooting weeds. They broke up the soil, added humus to the soil, and allowed water and air to get in.

After a few months of those, dandelions and the like took over. Still deep rooting, and work much the same as the thorny weeds, but can afford for animals to nibble on them.

After that was the clovers, and more lush types of plants.

When the soil was right, the grass just took over (kikuyu), and rolled over everything else.

Soil is now nice, friable and rich for about 8". Dung beetles and worms in abundance.

 

[moribundman]

Many people here have AstroLawn, which is of course synthetic. I don't know how they can stand it.

 

[MarkC]

30% of water consumed on the East Coast goes to watering lawns; 60% on the West Coast.
18% of municipal solid waste is composed of yard waste.
The average suburban lawn received 10 times as much chemical pesticide per acre as farmland.
Over 70 million tons of fertilizers and pesticides are applied to residential lawns and gardens annually. (Read Healthy lawns, healthy lungs)
Per hour of operation, a gas lawn mower emits 10-12 times as much hydrocarbon as a typical auto. A weedeater emits 21 times more and a leaf blower 34 times more.
Where pesticides are used, 60 - 90% of earthworms are killed. Earthworms are important for soil health.
Good lawn practices, okay, but apparently there's not so much of that going on.

There are good points to all that unnatural grass. a 50'X5-' lawn produces enough oxygen for a family of 4. Of course, the mowing and whacking uses energy and emits hydrocarbons.
A grassy lawn cools things off--at least compared to bare soil, about 30-40 degress cooler.
They also absorb and hold, as well as filter water.
But...every year, 2 million acres of residential property is added to America. That land comes from someplace, and the result means less habitat for native plants, insects and other animals.
There's a good book called The Ecology of Eden, which has a pretty large section about the American fascination with lawns, the results, and the origins of this infatuation.

I like the idea of leaving a lot of the area to native plants.

 

[JayhawkRoy]

I would do lime (lime is rather long acting and doesn't exactly show immediate results), and then do the seeding & fertilizer at the same time. If your 8# per 1000 sq ft means the amount of N you need to put down, I would put down 2 50# bags of 46-0-0 and one 50# bag of 10-20-10. If my figures are right, this meets your goal to get close to 8# per 1000 sq ft of N and the 10-20-10 is the easiest way to add more P, at a rate higher than the other fertilizers.

I will try to double-check to find out if you can fertilize and sow seed at about the same time.

 

[JayhawkRoy]

Here is what Pike Family Nursery says. The seed sow rate is much closer to what I thought, vs the early one pound per 1000 sq ft figure. They also say Bermuda needs full sun, all the time. So long as you have that covered, here would be their recommendations:

PLANTING SPECIFICATIONS: Sow Bermuda seed at a planting depth of 1/4 inch, using two to three pounds of seed per 1000 square feet. Bermuda seed is very fine, so it is a good idea to mix the seed with sand for a more uniform distribution. Bermuda germinates quickly, usually in seven to ten days. Under the proper conditions, it can become fully established in 60 to 90 days.

A word of caution. Do not combine Bermuda seed and Bermuda sod. Most Bermuda sod varieties are hybrids and do not mix well with the grass from common Bermuda seed, because they have a different appearance and texture.

FERTILIZER: Bermuda thrives on fertilizer. You should apply fertilizer to Bermuda two to three times during the growing season. In April, it will start to come out of its dormant state. When it is about 50% green, apply a slow-release, high nitrogen fertilizer to your lawn. Make a second application about six to eight weeks later or as directed on the bag. A third application in another six weeks may be desired. Apply a "winterizer" to Bermuda in late October to prevent winter injury.

Based on this info, I would do the combo 46-0-0/10-20-10 application before I did the seeding, wait about a week and then seed. After that, change over to an extended release fertilizer,and see what happens.

 

[benjamming]

Quote:

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Based on this info, I would do the combo 46-0-0/10-20-10 application before I did the seeding, wait about a week and then seed. After that, change over to an extended release fertilizer,and see what happens.

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The official recommendation was 1.0 Ton limestone per acre which figures to be ~ 50#/1k ft2. The fertilizer was 8#/1k ft2 of 13-13-13 or equivalent when spring growth begins and repeat in mid-summer. If more growth or better color is desired make additional applications of 1 # N (3# 34-0-0 or equivalent) at 2-month intervals. A pint of dry fertilizer is ~ 1#. As a precautionary measure, consider applying 10# sulfur/acre/year.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Pablo]

I don't actually believe those water figures, they are fudged and they ignore agricultural usage, or rather they combine it.

18% of solid waste is NOT highly biodegradable grass clippings, plus even if it's true, name a town in WA that doesn't have yard waste collection! Which is turned to mulch and returned to citizens of used by the city.

Combining fertilizer # with pesticide # is fallacious at best. I've never actually applied any pesticide to my lawn, maybe there are folks who do, but I don't know any of them. Most people do apply some level of fertilizer which is quickly used by the grass itself.

I have nothing against leaving natural areas. However, a reasonable lawn is not an ecological disaster.

If you want to pick on something in our area – why not go after something like the train line from downtown to the airport. Total waste of money and resources, vs. no changes to roads – which leads to more air pollution from cars trapped in traffic.

 

[Papa Bear]

I'd grow corn for ethanol...

 

[benjamming]

We don't have a sprinkler system. Bermuda can handle a lack of water & hot weather with full sun that we have in the front yard.
No pesticide use here - I'm not that hard up for a perfect lawn (Read: not in a subdivision but rural area).
I'm not too concerned with hydrocarbons & that 'data'.

 

[MarkC]

Quote:

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I don't actually believe those water figures, they are fudged and they ignore agricultural usage, or rather they combine it.

18% of solid waste is NOT highly biodegradable grass clippings, plus even if it's true, name a town in WA that doesn't have yard waste collection! Which is turned to mulch and returned to citizens of used by the city.

Combining fertilizer # with pesticide # is fallacious at best. I've never actually applied any pesticide to my lawn, maybe there are folks who do, but I don't know any of them. Most people do apply some level of fertilizer which is quickly used by the grass itself.

I have nothing against leaving natural areas. However, a reasonable lawn is not an ecological disaster.

If you want to pick on something in our area – why not go after something like the train line from downtown to the airport. Total waste of money and resources, vs. no changes to roads – which leads to more air pollution from cars trapped in traffic.

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The numbers came froma "pro-lawn" website, and the US Fish and Wildlfie Service, believe them or not. Your lawn is probably not typical, but good job!