I get to choose the oil!
New here because I heard!!
- Thread starter josie_wales
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Originally Posted By: Pablo
Then choose one that doesn't limit P, I'm just saying don't point the finger at API.
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB MO-2007-08-08 Flat Tappet.pdf
Who pointed the finger at the API?
Geeze Pabs, you tell me I'm looking for a fight?
Can we agree that an SM/GF-4 oil would likely not be well advised in this 355 small block Chevy? Like I said, the only regular SM oils I know of that have a tad higher zinc levels are the products from Chevron, and they are only 800 ppm zinc. I think it would be wise to step up to a CJ-4 or a racing oil which will have a minimum of 1200 ppm zinc.
Then choose one that doesn't limit P, I'm just saying don't point the finger at API.
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB MO-2007-08-08 Flat Tappet.pdf
Who pointed the finger at the API?
Geeze Pabs, you tell me I'm looking for a fight?
Can we agree that an SM/GF-4 oil would likely not be well advised in this 355 small block Chevy? Like I said, the only regular SM oils I know of that have a tad higher zinc levels are the products from Chevron, and they are only 800 ppm zinc. I think it would be wise to step up to a CJ-4 or a racing oil which will have a minimum of 1200 ppm zinc.
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10w40 does not fall into the ILSAC limitations. API does not limit P. ILSAC Does.
Consider emailing Mobil for their opinion.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
10w40 does not fall into the ILSAC limitations. API does not limit P. ILSAC Does.
API does limit phosphorous at 800 ppm for 0w-20, 5w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30, but not for 10w-40 and 20w-50. That was in the chart Pablo was eluding to.
But if you look at oil analysis and data sheets, most 10w-40s and 20w-50s are still 800 ppm phosphorous.
10w40 does not fall into the ILSAC limitations. API does not limit P. ILSAC Does.
API does limit phosphorous at 800 ppm for 0w-20, 5w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30, but not for 10w-40 and 20w-50. That was in the chart Pablo was eluding to.
But if you look at oil analysis and data sheets, most 10w-40s and 20w-50s are still 800 ppm phosphorous.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I get to choose the oil!
Now you are just being unfair.
How will we ever prove how good _________ store brand really is with out a truly proper test?
I get to choose the oil!
Now you are just being unfair.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
10w40 does not fall into the ILSAC limitations. API does not limit P. ILSAC Does.
Are you 100% sure? - look at table Q-4. (maybe you meant to say "10w40 does not fall into the API limitations").
Same link as above, choose a 10w-40 that is NOT ILSAC GF-4.
10w40 does not fall into the ILSAC limitations. API does not limit P. ILSAC Does.
Are you 100% sure? - look at table Q-4. (maybe you meant to say "10w40 does not fall into the API limitations").
Same link as above, choose a 10w-40 that is NOT ILSAC GF-4.
I don't think there is such a thing as 10w-40 or 20w-50 ILSAC oils. ILSAC only licenses the energy conserving grades. Most 10w-40s and 20w-50s, if you read the bottle, state that they meet the emissions system requirements of ILSAC though, which is where the 800 ppm phosphorous limit comes in.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Who pointed the finger at the API?
Not you, but every one of these type of threads starts out with "newest API"..."Because of API...." etc....
Another point missed here - many, many cam destruction stories REALLY don't REALLY find the true root cause.....they tend to blame the oil....but....
Who pointed the finger at the API?
Not you, but every one of these type of threads starts out with "newest API"..."Because of API...." etc....
Another point missed here - many, many cam destruction stories REALLY don't REALLY find the true root cause.....they tend to blame the oil....but....
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I don't think there is such a thing as 10w-40 or 20w-50 ILSAC oils. ILSAC only licenses the energy conserving grades. Most 10w-40s and 20w-50s, if you read the bottle, state that they meet the emissions system requirements of ILSAC though, which is where the 800 ppm phosphorous limit comes in.
I was thinking the same thing until I read appendix table Q-4.
I don't think there is such a thing as 10w-40 or 20w-50 ILSAC oils. ILSAC only licenses the energy conserving grades. Most 10w-40s and 20w-50s, if you read the bottle, state that they meet the emissions system requirements of ILSAC though, which is where the 800 ppm phosphorous limit comes in.
I was thinking the same thing until I read appendix table Q-4.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I don't think there is such a thing as 10w-40 or 20w-50 ILSAC oils. ILSAC only licenses the energy conserving grades. Most 10w-40s and 20w-50s, if you read the bottle, state that they meet the emissions system requirements of ILSAC though, which is where the 800 ppm phosphorous limit comes in.
I was thinking the same thing until I read appendix table Q-4.
It lists 0w, 5w, and 10w, but not 20w. All I know is, 10w-40 and 20w-50 Chevron Supreme and Havoline Deposit Shield have more zinc and phosphorous then the ILSAC/API limits.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I don't think there is such a thing as 10w-40 or 20w-50 ILSAC oils. ILSAC only licenses the energy conserving grades. Most 10w-40s and 20w-50s, if you read the bottle, state that they meet the emissions system requirements of ILSAC though, which is where the 800 ppm phosphorous limit comes in.
I was thinking the same thing until I read appendix table Q-4.
It lists 0w, 5w, and 10w, but not 20w. All I know is, 10w-40 and 20w-50 Chevron Supreme and Havoline Deposit Shield have more zinc and phosphorous then the ILSAC/API limits.
Way to go josiewales.. first post and look at all the trouble you stirred up!!
Quote:
A Jeeper stopped to look at it the other day and asked what I was doing about the SM oil.
What oil does that guy recommend?
Quote:
A Jeeper stopped to look at it the other day and asked what I was doing about the SM oil.
What oil does that guy recommend?
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If zinc levels are not a factor in wear of high lift/high spring rate valvetrains, why does Amsoil, Valvoline, Redline, and Joe Gibbs offer oils with high levels of zinc to protect valvetrains?
Cheapest way to do the job when you can get away with it, maybe? I'll assume that you're not referring to anything involving extended drains ..just the racing/high performance oils.
If zinc levels are not a factor in wear of high lift/high spring rate valvetrains, why does Amsoil, Valvoline, Redline, and Joe Gibbs offer oils with high levels of zinc to protect valvetrains?
Cheapest way to do the job when you can get away with it, maybe? I'll assume that you're not referring to anything involving extended drains ..just the racing/high performance oils.
Outside of the energy conserving viscosities there is no cieling limitations on P for a 10w40 oil for example. A minimumm of 600 ppm is required. The blenders/marketers can choose not to add heavy doses of ZDDP into these oils becaue they think they could be used in newer cars.
To assure a good doese of ZDDP read the PDS fro the oil in question. A good diesel rated 10w30 is a good bet.
Gasoline engine oils vary outside of the ILSAC controls(starburst oils) it is best to look up the product data in the decison making process.
There may be some Gasoline rated SM oils that have very high doses of zddp .
IF they don't state the P level don't buy it if you are looking for higher levels.
For Example Castrol High Milage.. http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int...mileage_usa.pdf
Can't trust it not enough info for the flat tappet user.
Here Ashland shows that the oil is dosed the same as the ILSAC oils... http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/All-Climate.pdf
Not the fault of API they don't limit it outside the ILSAC certification.
Now look at Valvoline VR-1 racing oil. 1400 ppm zinc 1300 ppm p . That's a good choice.
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf
To assure a good doese of ZDDP read the PDS fro the oil in question. A good diesel rated 10w30 is a good bet.
Gasoline engine oils vary outside of the ILSAC controls(starburst oils) it is best to look up the product data in the decison making process.
There may be some Gasoline rated SM oils that have very high doses of zddp .
IF they don't state the P level don't buy it if you are looking for higher levels.
For Example Castrol High Milage.. http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_int...mileage_usa.pdf
Can't trust it not enough info for the flat tappet user.
Here Ashland shows that the oil is dosed the same as the ILSAC oils... http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/All-Climate.pdf
Not the fault of API they don't limit it outside the ILSAC certification.
Now look at Valvoline VR-1 racing oil. 1400 ppm zinc 1300 ppm p . That's a good choice.
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Then choose one that doesn't limit P, I'm just saying don't point the finger at API.
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB MO-2007-08-08 Flat Tappet.pdf
I've never understood leaving ACD off the list.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1326398#Post1326398
Then choose one that doesn't limit P, I'm just saying don't point the finger at API.
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB MO-2007-08-08 Flat Tappet.pdf
I've never understood leaving ACD off the list.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1326398#Post1326398
Well - it's not really sold as a dual use oil even though it is. I have asked for years to have it in quarts, for example.
Patman
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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I was thinking the same thing. The ZDDP deal (or lack there of) might seem like it's blown out of proportion here, but go read some posts on the hot rod boards, and you'll quickly find out that it truly is a real problem for older engines with flat tappet high lift cams.
I agree. A friend of mine in my Corvette club with a 72 Corvette ruined his high dollar flat tappet cam engine by running SM oil in it. He didn't put that many miles on it either, so he was not pleased.
I was thinking the same thing. The ZDDP deal (or lack there of) might seem like it's blown out of proportion here, but go read some posts on the hot rod boards, and you'll quickly find out that it truly is a real problem for older engines with flat tappet high lift cams.
I agree. A friend of mine in my Corvette club with a 72 Corvette ruined his high dollar flat tappet cam engine by running SM oil in it. He didn't put that many miles on it either, so he was not pleased.
I think things can be overblown sometimes, HOWEVER,in this case I believe there is some merit to the ZDDP issue. When I had my 67 mustang rebuilt, I went with a few upgrades inlcuding a hotter cam. During break in several cam lobes wiped out. I'm talking about the initial break-in- 20 minute run at 2000 rpm, there are variances but you get the jest. This is from an extremely reputable/experienced builder. Back then,this was the 3rd time it had happened to him in that year (2007). He told me he used Castrol 30 wt for most if not all initail runs, and has for years. Would a high ZDDP oil have helped, I dunno, my understanding is that it is heat activated, my cam wiped out in under 10 minutes, so go figure. But I'm not chancing it, I run only VR-1 racing oil in it, I may switch to M1 5W-40 diesel in the future.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Well - it's not really sold as a dual use oil even though it is. I have asked for years to have it in quarts, for example.
What about 2.5 gallon? I'd buy that and quarts if it was available.
Well - it's not really sold as a dual use oil even though it is. I have asked for years to have it in quarts, for example.
What about 2.5 gallon? I'd buy that and quarts if it was available.
1 gallon, 30 gallon, 55 gallon, 275 gallon
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