New GM Camry Accord fighter?
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This is exactly the problem, GM just doesn't know what to do with Buick and where to position the brand, is it a luxury, near luxury, what is the target demographic, etc. This car is certainly not an Accord and Camry fighter, in reality it's not going to fight any car until GM gets it's [censored] together and finally decides what Buick brand represents.
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Here is what I think is the most logical brand lineup, each having no more than 3 models:
Luxury cars targeting the wealthy - Cadillac;
Low and mid-tier cars for the middle class - Chevrolet;
Carve out a market for the elderly - Buick;
Trucks - GMC.
The Buick basically needs to be a car that a baby boomer wants to drive. Good styling, great ergonomics (not very complicated electronics, comfortable knobs and buttons, etc.). These can be priced between Chevrolet and Cadillac for comparable sized cars.
The problem is that they will have the same car and simply slap the different brands on them without having much distinction. And the madness will go on.
Luxury cars targeting the wealthy - Cadillac;
Low and mid-tier cars for the middle class - Chevrolet;
Carve out a market for the elderly - Buick;
Trucks - GMC.
The Buick basically needs to be a car that a baby boomer wants to drive. Good styling, great ergonomics (not very complicated electronics, comfortable knobs and buttons, etc.). These can be priced between Chevrolet and Cadillac for comparable sized cars.
The problem is that they will have the same car and simply slap the different brands on them without having much distinction. And the madness will go on.
Civic Fan - your are stating the obvious, except don't classify us Boomers as elderly. Buick has no reason to exist other than the Chinese like it. Boomers look at it as their parent's car.
I do wonder what my farmer relatives will buy when there are no more Lucernes and Marquis made. Can't see them in these Infinity-knock off Buicks.
I do wonder what my farmer relatives will buy when there are no more Lucernes and Marquis made. Can't see them in these Infinity-knock off Buicks.
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Well, in case you don't know more than 3/4's of the people in charge of GM are new and even outsiders like Ed Whitacre who made ATT a success. I met Ed last week when he came to my plant - the first thing he said was he know's nothing about cars and it was his first time in any assembly plant. I was amazed and a little mad - a non-car guy as Chairman of the Board of GM. But - maybe that's what is needed - fresh eyes on the business. We'll see and....may the best car win!
Second - where did you pull that 82% figure?? I'm thinking maybe your [censored]??
82% was quoted by Edmunds about 10 years ago. But I doubt that you read anything outside of Ed Whitacres shorts.
That's funny, I can laugh at that. But what's funnier is your using data that's 10 years old.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Well, in case you don't know more than 3/4's of the people in charge of GM are new and even outsiders like Ed Whitacre who made ATT a success. I met Ed last week when he came to my plant - the first thing he said was he know's nothing about cars and it was his first time in any assembly plant. I was amazed and a little mad - a non-car guy as Chairman of the Board of GM. But - maybe that's what is needed - fresh eyes on the business. We'll see and....may the best car win!
Second - where did you pull that 82% figure?? I'm thinking maybe your [censored]??
82% was quoted by Edmunds about 10 years ago. But I doubt that you read anything outside of Ed Whitacres shorts.
That's funny, I can laugh at that. But what's funnier is your using data that's 10 years old.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Buick is GM's saddest story. They have a set market for the brand - the elderly - but for years they have been trying to get rid of them and switch the market. This idiocy has cost them a lot of money.
The truly sad story is that we lost Oldsmobile, which was also a good value for the money -- and was the oldest still-running American marque.
Buick is GM's saddest story. They have a set market for the brand - the elderly - but for years they have been trying to get rid of them and switch the market. This idiocy has cost them a lot of money.
The truly sad story is that we lost Oldsmobile, which was also a good value for the money -- and was the oldest still-running American marque.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Well, in case you don't know more than 3/4's of the people in charge of GM are new and even outsiders like Ed Whitacre who made ATT a success. I met Ed last week when he came to my plant - the first thing he said was he know's nothing about cars and it was his first time in any assembly plant. I was amazed and a little mad - a non-car guy as Chairman of the Board of GM. But - maybe that's what is needed - fresh eyes on the business. We'll see and....may the best car win!
Second - where did you pull that 82% figure?? I'm thinking maybe your [censored]??
82% was quoted by Edmunds about 10 years ago. But I doubt that you read anything outside of Ed Whitacres shorts.
That's funny, I can laugh at that. But what's funnier is your using data that's 10 years old.
Yeah...it's probably way over 90% by now....
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Well, in case you don't know more than 3/4's of the people in charge of GM are new and even outsiders like Ed Whitacre who made ATT a success. I met Ed last week when he came to my plant - the first thing he said was he know's nothing about cars and it was his first time in any assembly plant. I was amazed and a little mad - a non-car guy as Chairman of the Board of GM. But - maybe that's what is needed - fresh eyes on the business. We'll see and....may the best car win!
Second - where did you pull that 82% figure?? I'm thinking maybe your [censored]??
82% was quoted by Edmunds about 10 years ago. But I doubt that you read anything outside of Ed Whitacres shorts.
That's funny, I can laugh at that. But what's funnier is your using data that's 10 years old.
Yeah...it's probably way over 90% by now....
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Well, in case you don't know more than 3/4's of the people in charge of GM are new and even outsiders like Ed Whitacre who made ATT a success. I met Ed last week when he came to my plant - the first thing he said was he know's nothing about cars and it was his first time in any assembly plant. I was amazed and a little mad - a non-car guy as Chairman of the Board of GM. But - maybe that's what is needed - fresh eyes on the business. We'll see and....may the best car win!
Second - where did you pull that 82% figure?? I'm thinking maybe your [censored]??
82% was quoted by Edmunds about 10 years ago. But I doubt that you read anything outside of Ed Whitacres
shorts.
That's funny, I can laugh at that. But what's funnier is your using data that's 10 years old.
Yeah...it's probably way over 90% by now....
I think a more interesting statistic would be how many drivers have never owned a GM/Ford. There is a significant segment of an entire generation that consider GM/Ford to be irrelevant. They never even consider them when they are looking to purchase.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Well, in case you don't know more than 3/4's of the people in charge of GM are new and even outsiders like Ed Whitacre who made ATT a success. I met Ed last week when he came to my plant - the first thing he said was he know's nothing about cars and it was his first time in any assembly plant. I was amazed and a little mad - a non-car guy as Chairman of the Board of GM. But - maybe that's what is needed - fresh eyes on the business. We'll see and....may the best car win!
Second - where did you pull that 82% figure?? I'm thinking maybe your [censored]??
82% was quoted by Edmunds about 10 years ago. But I doubt that you read anything outside of Ed Whitacres
shorts.
That's funny, I can laugh at that. But what's funnier is your using data that's 10 years old.
Yeah...it's probably way over 90% by now....
I think a more interesting statistic would be how many drivers have never owned a GM/Ford. There is a significant segment of an entire generation that consider GM/Ford to be irrelevant. They never even consider them when they are looking to purchase.
Originally Posted By: Cardinal49
I think a more interesting statistic would be how many drivers have never owned a GM/Ford. There is a significant segment of an entire generation that consider GM/Ford to be irrelevant. They never even consider them when they are looking to purchase.
That would be interesting. You are probably right since GM once had over 50% market share and the FTC was considering breaking them up for anti-trust violations.
I think a more interesting statistic would be how many drivers have never owned a GM/Ford. There is a significant segment of an entire generation that consider GM/Ford to be irrelevant. They never even consider them when they are looking to purchase.
That would be interesting. You are probably right since GM once had over 50% market share and the FTC was considering breaking them up for anti-trust violations.
I still love how everyone is going on and on about GMs poor quality. I present you the past 4, 5 years of GM which have been producing very good cars, even more so the past year or two. The saying that the sales numbers speak for themselves is false, and a problem. People are afraid of buying GM. I bet most accord/camry owners have not owned an american car in over 15 years. They won't even walk into a GM dealership, so how can you say that sales numbers speak? Sure, in a perfect world people would buy the best bang/buck car, but when people don't even look at the competition....
Whan you get stuck with a lemon or two to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars you tend to write off the offending company no matter who they are. Would you go back for a 3rd one? I was dumb enough to go back and give them another chance and got burned again.
GM's sales sucked long before the auto industry decline
GM's sales sucked long before the auto industry decline
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Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Well, in case you don't know more than 3/4's of the people in charge of GM are new and even outsiders like Ed Whitacre who made ATT a success. I met Ed last week when he came to my plant - the first thing he said was he know's nothing about cars and it was his first time in any assembly plant. I was amazed and a little mad - a non-car guy as Chairman of the Board of GM. But - maybe that's what is needed - fresh eyes on the business. We'll see and....may the best car win!
Second - where did you pull that 82% figure?? I'm thinking maybe your [censored]??
82% was quoted by Edmunds about 10 years ago. But I doubt that you read anything outside of Ed Whitacres shorts.
That's funny, I can laugh at that. But what's funnier is your using data that's 10 years old.
Yeah...it's probably way over 90% by now....
Still diggin' in your [censored]?
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Well, in case you don't know more than 3/4's of the people in charge of GM are new and even outsiders like Ed Whitacre who made ATT a success. I met Ed last week when he came to my plant - the first thing he said was he know's nothing about cars and it was his first time in any assembly plant. I was amazed and a little mad - a non-car guy as Chairman of the Board of GM. But - maybe that's what is needed - fresh eyes on the business. We'll see and....may the best car win!
Second - where did you pull that 82% figure?? I'm thinking maybe your [censored]??
82% was quoted by Edmunds about 10 years ago. But I doubt that you read anything outside of Ed Whitacres shorts.
That's funny, I can laugh at that. But what's funnier is your using data that's 10 years old.
Yeah...it's probably way over 90% by now....
Still diggin' in your [censored]?
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
I still love how everyone is going on and on about GMs poor quality. I present you the past 4, 5 years of GM which have been producing very good cars, even more so the past year or two. The saying that the sales numbers speak for themselves is false, and a problem. People are afraid of buying GM. I bet most accord/camry owners have not owned an american car in over 15 years. They won't even walk into a GM dealership, so how can you say that sales numbers speak? Sure, in a perfect world people would buy the best bang/buck car, but when people don't even look at the competition....
Have you noticed its always the same guys whining against the US auto companies. They go out of their way to repeat the same tired story of some lemons they owned.
I don't know about you but I have some good import stories but I don't go around continually posting in the Honda and Toy threads. I dont see you doing the same, why do you think these same guys continually do it in GM threads?
I still love how everyone is going on and on about GMs poor quality. I present you the past 4, 5 years of GM which have been producing very good cars, even more so the past year or two. The saying that the sales numbers speak for themselves is false, and a problem. People are afraid of buying GM. I bet most accord/camry owners have not owned an american car in over 15 years. They won't even walk into a GM dealership, so how can you say that sales numbers speak? Sure, in a perfect world people would buy the best bang/buck car, but when people don't even look at the competition....
Have you noticed its always the same guys whining against the US auto companies. They go out of their way to repeat the same tired story of some lemons they owned.
I don't know about you but I have some good import stories but I don't go around continually posting in the Honda and Toy threads. I dont see you doing the same, why do you think these same guys continually do it in GM threads?
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
I still love how everyone is going on and on about GMs poor quality. I present you the past 4, 5 years of GM which have been producing very good cars, even more so the past year or two. The saying that the sales numbers speak for themselves is false, and a problem. People are afraid of buying GM. I bet most accord/camry owners have not owned an american car in over 15 years. They won't even walk into a GM dealership, so how can you say that sales numbers speak? Sure, in a perfect world people would buy the best bang/buck car, but when people don't even look at the competition....
Have you noticed its always the same guys whining against the US auto companies. They go out of their way to repeat the same tired story of some lemons they owned.
I don't know about you but I have some good import stories but I don't go around continually posting in the Honda and Toy threads. I dont see you doing the same, why do you think these same guys continually do it in GM threads?
Tired of bankrolling Detroits losers...
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
I still love how everyone is going on and on about GMs poor quality. I present you the past 4, 5 years of GM which have been producing very good cars, even more so the past year or two. The saying that the sales numbers speak for themselves is false, and a problem. People are afraid of buying GM. I bet most accord/camry owners have not owned an american car in over 15 years. They won't even walk into a GM dealership, so how can you say that sales numbers speak? Sure, in a perfect world people would buy the best bang/buck car, but when people don't even look at the competition....
Have you noticed its always the same guys whining against the US auto companies. They go out of their way to repeat the same tired story of some lemons they owned.
I don't know about you but I have some good import stories but I don't go around continually posting in the Honda and Toy threads. I dont see you doing the same, why do you think these same guys continually do it in GM threads?
Tired of bankrolling Detroits losers...
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I don't know about you but I have some good import stories
I doubt it.......seriously
I don't know about you but I have some good import stories
I doubt it.......seriously
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Still diggin' in your [censored]?
I don't have to....I'm not the one who needed bailing out....
Still diggin' in your [censored]?
I don't have to....I'm not the one who needed bailing out....
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Still diggin' in your [censored]?
I don't have to....I'm not the one who needed bailing out....
Careful what you say....Gov't is into bailing everyone out thesedays...NOBODY'S JOB IS SAFE ANYMORE.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Still diggin' in your [censored]?
I don't have to....I'm not the one who needed bailing out....
Careful what you say....Gov't is into bailing everyone out thesedays...NOBODY'S JOB IS SAFE ANYMORE.
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I don't know about you but I have some good import stories
I doubt it.......seriously
Oh come on - enough of the "imports are perfect" mentality! You never stay on top forever-same went for Detroit and is starting to happen to Japan. You just want GM to fail and that is so pathetic.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I don't know about you but I have some good import stories
I doubt it.......seriously
Oh come on - enough of the "imports are perfect" mentality! You never stay on top forever-same went for Detroit and is starting to happen to Japan. You just want GM to fail and that is so pathetic.
Based on what I've seen, working in a Saturn shop over the last 4 years, GM is junk. I wouldn't own one, even if it was free. We see blown tranny's at 30,000 miles, leaking tranny's at 15,000 miles, blown struts at 30,000 miles, electrical problems out the wazoo, its like monkey's are building these cars, besides the fact that they are using some cheap [censored] parts. We even had a cylinder head on a 2008 Outlook, 35,000 miles, self destruct. I wouldn't own one, period.
As far as what I drive....a Subaru! I love it, rock solid and reliable as all get out.
As far as what I drive....a Subaru! I love it, rock solid and reliable as all get out.
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