Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
"
Ask yourself this...what is the #1 reason people wont use synthetic? COST. Eliminate Cost and im about 99.9% sure everyone will use it"
Why? Because value is more important to me than cost. Cost is the measure of the price you pay. Value is the measure of fiscal efficiency; what did I get out for what I paid in? I have no problem spending big money on big ticket items. But I do expect value for every dollar I spend. Value does not mean "cheap"; it means output/input. It is a measure of ratio differentiation.
Thanks for the continued rhetoric, though.
Again, anyone have some solid proof that synthetics actually protect "better" for shorter OCIs, say 5k miles? Anyone find any UOAs on this site that prove there is not significant disparity between the "cost" and the "result"?
Why pay 2x or 3x more money, if you're not getting better wear numbers? Peace of mind? Sure, that's worth something. But you've thrown in a variable that exactly answers why I say you SHOULD use synthetics; longer drain intervals.
The way to get your value from something is to set goals and parameters, and then operate up to and within those criteria, getting the most return for the least input.
I have used, currently use, and will continue to use synthetic lubricants when it makes sense. There are applications in my fleet that warrant the added expense. But I just don't use them willy-nilly because of hype and bloated sales claims. Dino fluids are perfectly capable fluids when used as prescribed; 5k miles on a good filter in a moderate temperature zone is certainly 100% within the capability range of many good products on the market today.
P.S. - most turbo cars don't require synthetics; they are often recommended, but not required. And if that is your measure, then why is it that turbo-diesel trucks perform perfectly well with dino oil changes, some up to 10k miles? There is no more oil in a 6.6L Dmax per liter than a 3.0L or 3.5L turbo V-6, or a 2.5L turbo 4cyl. In fact, some of the smaller gas engines actually carry more oil per liter than the larger V-8 engines. I don't for a second believe that a small hot-rod gas turbo works any harder than a diesel truck pulling 12k pounds of hay three counties away on a hot August day.
Again, proof please. Check the marketing hype at the door.
And we can see all the
PROOF they brought to the discussion.
All they do bring up is bottled water or starbucks INSTEAD of answering the REAL question.
But that's ok as long as they are not posting every time someone asks what oil to run and their UNSUPPORTED answer.
Very well put dnewton3. I could never put it as well as you did..
I used to waste $$ on things that did not matter. Then I grew up. On oil I've always done what I do today and never an problem over hundreds of thousands of miles.
On yesterdays oils. And today's conventional oils ARE BETTER than the first syns.
I love the it's "only" $8 more per change. If we do 3k OCI then that is "only" $400 over 150k miles (which my 05 is coming up to)
That is "only" 5733 miles worth of gas @ $3 a gallon.
I know where I'd rather spend the $$ because in the end, it does not matter.
5k OCI? Its "only" $240. Sadly most Syn users don't make it past that.
Some of us go longer than that with conventional (and HAVE POSTED UOAs to SUPPORT them).
I know I'll make 300-400k with no problems.
Originally Posted By: toyotaguy
I don't think conventional oils are bad such as 5w20 penzz or valv. But If someone WANTS a full synthetic and it makes them more secure, then why is it a waste? People can be wasteful with lots of different things in there life. Such as beer, smokes etc
Then you admit that you have no PROOF that syn is GOING to make your engine last longer.
You are running it because it makes you FEEL better. Cool!
But don't feel anyone who runs conventional is doing anything wrong and their engine is protected as well as yours.
Cause their engine is WELL protected.
Millions of engines out there are proving this everyday. (and using other brands or weights than 5w-20 Pennzoil or Valvoline)
Again, PLEASE SPEND some time reading this board. For the last 7 years there have been HUNDREDS of threads providing FACTS on Conventional vs Syn in the same engines.
A LOT of excellent educational info here. I'd wish people would read it instead of just posting when they sign up.
Take care, Bill
Thanks for your information. I have read several posts since I have signed up and did not post just because I didn't read anything. I didn't appreciate the comment, but thanks for your input.
It doesn't bother me to use PP or PYB, I was just trying to get a consensus on whether or not Synthetic provided better protection than conventional during short trip driving conditions.
From what I have gathered on the comments entered here, it seems that it does not matter because both synthetic and dino will provide the same protection during this type of driving and excellent protection given 3k - 4k oil change intervals. I have also gathered that it doesn't matter when you switch to synthetic as long as you are past about 1k miles on a new car.
I did search for this information and found many threads on the new car issue. I didn't find many on the short trip issue. Thanks for your input again, it is appreciated. I assume the oil filter is what really matters regardless of oil then?
