New Car Oil Question

[dnewton3]

"Ask yourself this...what is the #1 reason people wont use synthetic? COST. Eliminate Cost and im about 99.9% sure everyone will use it" Why? Because value is more important to me than cost. Cost is the measure of the price you pay. Value is the measure of fiscal efficiency; what did I get out for what I paid in? I have no problem spending big money on big ticket items. But I do expect value for every dollar I spend. Value does not mean "cheap"; it means output/input. It is a measure of ratio differentiation. Thanks for the continued rhetoric, though. Again, anyone have some solid proof that synthetics actually protect "better" for shorter OCIs, say 5k miles? Anyone find any UOAs on this site that prove there is not significant disparity between the "cost" and the "result"? Why pay 2x or 3x more money, if you're not getting better wear numbers? Peace of mind? Sure, that's worth something. But you've thrown in a variable that exactly answers why I say you SHOULD use synthetics; longer drain intervals. The way to get your value from something is to set goals and parameters, and then operate up to and within those criteria, getting the most return for the least input. I have used, currently use, and will continue to use synthetic lubricants when it makes sense. There are applications in my fleet that warrant the added expense. But I just don't use them willy-nilly because of hype and bloated sales claims. Dino fluids are perfectly capable fluids when used as prescribed; 5k miles on a good filter in a moderate temperature zone is certainly 100% within the capability range of many good products on the market today. P.S. - most turbo cars don't require synthetics; they are often recommended, but not required. And if that is your measure, then why is it that turbo-diesel trucks perform perfectly well with dino oil changes, some up to 10k miles? There is no more oil in a 6.6L Dmax per liter than a 3.0L or 3.5L turbo V-6, or a 2.5L turbo 4cyl. In fact, some of the smaller gas engines actually carry more oil per liter than the larger V-8 engines. I don't for a second believe that a small hot-rod gas turbo works any harder than a diesel truck pulling 12k pounds of hay three counties away on a hot August day. Again, proof please. Check the marketing hype at the door.

 

[GMFan]

For 5k OCI, just use a conventional oil: Mobil Clean 5000, Pennzoil YB, Formula Shell, Quaker State... You are wasting money otherwise with a synthetic oil in your application...the conventional oil will protect your motor just as well during 5k miles. But hey, it is your money so spend it how you please. Like dnewton3 said, there is much more value in a conventional oil in your application.

 

[mozart]

 Originally Posted By: MBCLK

Synthetics are better because you dont have to worry about it. Yes it costs more but you dont have to worry about it. Look at this scenario..a guy puts in conventional oil in his car and at 5k miles he thinks to himself, "hey, im at 5k miles on my current oil. my oil might have lost some of its life already. gosh, should i change it? hmmmm....well, i think i have had alot of cold and short runs lately cuz i work only 2 miles away. so maybe i should change it." synthetic gives u added peace of mind because it covers all different driving situations because you put the best oil in there. Follow the OLM and that's it. No thinking required. Think about it....why do turbo cars and high performance cars REQUIRE synthetic. Because it protects the engine better under extreme situations. So in your everyday car...for sure it's better...even if the car wont be run under an extreme situation...because it gives u that added "peace of mind" Ask yourself this...what is the #1 reason people wont use synthetic? COST. Eliminate Cost and im about 99.9% sure everyone will use it.

I agree. Keep in mind that if you buy oil on sale from somewhere like Wallmart, "2X" the cost is about $8 to $10 for a five quart jug. Considering the fact that you likely saved $50 by not going to the dealer (I've personally never have seen a $20 dealer oil change), I just don't see this as a big deal.

 

[D189379]

 Originally Posted By: outsiderwv

Thanks for all the input guys. I may decide to go Pennzoil Platinum and go about 5k as people here have mentioned with a good oil filter (Purolator from Autozone? or K&N/Mobil 1). I am just not sure, I have never let a car go 3,000 without an oil change, then again I have never really used synthetic either. Pennzoil Platinum is cheaper than Valvoline Synpower at Wally World here so I may use that. At 3,000 - 5,000 change intervals is there really a better oil for short trip driving conditions?

What intervals does the manual say to change the oil. Keep in mind that the dealer may give you the shaft on any engine warranty work if you don't follow the manual. At 3000 miles there's noi question dino oil will work as well as anything. At 5000 miles, you could go semi-synthetic if you don't want to push dino that far. I wouldn't use synthetic for anything less than 6500 miles.

 

[Durango]

 Originally Posted By: outsiderwv

I just bought an 09 Jeep Liberty with the 3.7L V6. The oil it calls for is 5w-20. The car has 1030 miles on it and I am going to change out the oil. My question is what should I change the oil to? I want to change to synthetic but didn't know if I should wait a little longer or not. My oil choices for synthetic are Pennzoil Platinum or Valvoline Syntec. I don't know which oil would be best for our driving. A mix between frequent short trips (very short trips in stop and go traffic) and longer drives. What are you guys suggestions? Thanks in advance.

outsiderwy, I'd wait until your first oil change interval. On my 01' Durango that's what I did generally for a couple oil changes until I was sure everything was working fine. If anything goes wrong they can't tell you that because you used a different oil it's now considered out of warranty. If you decide to wait then consider Mobil 1. I've used this oil many times and it's always been a fantastic synthetic. Right now I have M1 "Extended" and no issues what so ever. Durango

 

[3Toyotas]

outsiderwv, This thread is just going back and forth in all different directions. I was the same way you were with the 3/3000 OCI on a good quality dino years ago. All my vehicles now spec a 6/5000 mile interval, of which i don't beleive IMO that a dino is sufficient enough for me to go 5k miles. Call me oldschool or whatever, but i just won't go 5k on dino. Can it be done? I'm sure it can, but not in my vehicles. NHHEMI said the OCI in your manual is 6/6k, is this right? If this is right, i would use a high quality filter and full syn oil and go the 6k miles or 6 mos. From the UOA's on this site, PP is doing well, and so is the Amsoil XL line. Valvoline synpower is a pretty stout oil as well. If it were my rig, i would change the FF at 2k miles with synthetic, next OCI at 5k syn, the next at 11k syn, and so on. All with good quality filters ie; ( amsoil, RP, mobil 1 ). Only if your owners manual says 6/6000 intervals of course. If the manual says to go strictly off the OLM, and it trips at 2500-3000 miles then i'd double it with syn. Or, buy the cheapest dino you can find and change it with the OLM. I do agree that syn should be used to it's fullest potential, and should not be wasted. But 6k miles isn't a bad target IMO. Just my .02 cents.

 

[mva]

For a new car and an owner than wants to do short OCIs I would consider signing up to one of the oil warranty programs. Use which ever oil suits your fancy - Dino or synthetic, as long as it meets the specifications for your car. The pennzoil and Quaker State are similar 300,000 mile, 10 year, transferable warranties (same parent company) and they require 4,000 mile maximum OCI. If you change the oil this frequently the car should not have any oil related problems but it is still piece of mind and might have some value when you go to sell the vehicle. I would be impressed and willing to pay a bit more for a used car if I was looking at a used vehicle that had been looked after like this and still had a transferable oil warranty. The Valvoline warranty is a bit different and not transferable but still worth looking at. http://www.pennzoil.com/#/warranty/ http://www.engineguarantee.com/ http://www.quakerstate.com/#/warranty-information/

 

[dave1251]

 Originally Posted By: MBCLK

Synthetics are better because you dont have to worry about it. Yes it costs more but you dont have to worry about it. Look at this scenario..a guy puts in conventional oil in his car and at 5k miles he thinks to himself, "hey, im at 5k miles on my current oil. my oil might have lost some of its life already. gosh, should i change it? hmmmm....well, i think i have had alot of cold and short runs lately cuz i work only 2 miles away. so maybe i should change it." synthetic gives u added peace of mind because it covers all different driving situations because you put the best oil in there. Follow the OLM and that's it. No thinking required. Think about it....why do turbo cars and high performance cars REQUIRE synthetic. Because it protects the engine better under extreme situations. So in your everyday car...for sure it's better...even if the car wont be run under an extreme situation...because it gives u that added "peace of mind" Ask yourself this...what is the #1 reason people wont use synthetic? COST. Eliminate Cost and im about 99.9% sure everyone will use it.

Cost does play a factor. Does synthetic protect twice as good as conventional? Motor oil is a lot more than basestock's. Do you want to use a poorly formulated synthetic or a well formulated conventional. Do you know the differance between group II, group II+, group III, group III GTL, group IV, group IV basestocks?

 

[toyotaguy]

Just for entertainment purposes, what would be your idea of a poorly formulated synthetic?

 

[NHHEMI]

 Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas

outsiderwv, NHHEMI said the OCI in your manual is 6/6k, is this right?

It is the max allowed OCI for that vehicle in the manual. They are saying to go by the OLM but they list 6 months/6000 as the max not to exceed. So, as long as he does not go over 6/6000 he is good. Also, all the scheduled maintenance entries in the manual are on 6000 mile intervals as well.

 

[outsiderwv]

Thanks for the input guys. The manual says every 6,000 miles for an oil change. I don't plan on ever letting it go that far and the manual says I can use a synthetic oil as long as it is 5w-20 weight so i don't think any warranty issues will be an issue. I just didn't know if short trip driving was considered extreme and if a synthetic oil would benefit the vehicle from this type of driving. The other question was if it is ok to switch now or wait until there are a few more miles. The book says a short break in period of 300 miles is all that is required. Thanks for all the input. Very helpful and informative.

 

[Captain_Klink]

synthetic is very much of a waste, when you consider that regular 5w20, even though called "dino" is far from it; this is a group 2+ oil. For the oil change interval u mention, paying extra for synthetic is total waste. U can get 5w20 for 10.50 a jug of QS, sometimes PZ YB 5w20 for 10$ a jug. Now THAT is a real bargain. If you wish to "fortify" the oil a bit, there would be nothing wrong with using 5 quarts of conventional 5w20 mixed with 2.5 quart synthetic 5w30. This would still be 20 weight, by definition, but have a higher film strength, and higher shear resistance, so you would not shear out of grade. The cold properties of "dino" 5w20 are astonishingly good, due to this being group 2+. It may help to keep the manufacturer the same when blending, but even oils from different manufacturers blend well in my experience. The cold properties and pour point of conventional 5w20 and synthetic 5w30 are very similar, the difference being the shear resistance and film strength of the synth 5w30 is an improvement. That's what I do, and my resultant mix is a true "semi synthetic"

 

[toyotaguy]

Buying bottled water is a waste of money. Buying starbucks instead of DD coffee is a waste of money. Me buying synthetic is not a waste of money my opinion

 

[toyotaguy]

I don't think conventional oils are bad such as 5w20 penzz or valv. But If someone WANTS a full synthetic and it makes them more secure, then why is it a waste? People can be wasteful with lots of different things in there life. Such as beer, smokes etc

 

[outsiderwv]

I completely understand the arguments that have been presented of synthetic vs dino at my regular 3 - 4k oil change intervals. I appreciate everyone giving input for this information. However the question I have proposed is if synthetic would provide any better protection for our frequent short trip driving (which i think is considered an extreme driving condition) and if it is ok to switch at 1k or if i should wait a little longer. For me the price diff in dino vs synthetic PP vs PYB is only $5.00 so cost is not much of an issue. Depends on the protection. Keep the good information flowing.

 

[toyotaguy]

"For me the price diff in dino vs synthetic PP vs PYB is only $5.00" Exactly

 

[Bill in Utah]

 Originally Posted By: dnewton3

"Ask yourself this...what is the #1 reason people wont use synthetic? COST. Eliminate Cost and im about 99.9% sure everyone will use it" Why? Because value is more important to me than cost. Cost is the measure of the price you pay. Value is the measure of fiscal efficiency; what did I get out for what I paid in? I have no problem spending big money on big ticket items. But I do expect value for every dollar I spend. Value does not mean "cheap"; it means output/input. It is a measure of ratio differentiation. Thanks for the continued rhetoric, though. Again, anyone have some solid proof that synthetics actually protect "better" for shorter OCIs, say 5k miles? Anyone find any UOAs on this site that prove there is not significant disparity between the "cost" and the "result"? Why pay 2x or 3x more money, if you're not getting better wear numbers? Peace of mind? Sure, that's worth something. But you've thrown in a variable that exactly answers why I say you SHOULD use synthetics; longer drain intervals. The way to get your value from something is to set goals and parameters, and then operate up to and within those criteria, getting the most return for the least input. I have used, currently use, and will continue to use synthetic lubricants when it makes sense. There are applications in my fleet that warrant the added expense. But I just don't use them willy-nilly because of hype and bloated sales claims. Dino fluids are perfectly capable fluids when used as prescribed; 5k miles on a good filter in a moderate temperature zone is certainly 100% within the capability range of many good products on the market today. P.S. - most turbo cars don't require synthetics; they are often recommended, but not required. And if that is your measure, then why is it that turbo-diesel trucks perform perfectly well with dino oil changes, some up to 10k miles? There is no more oil in a 6.6L Dmax per liter than a 3.0L or 3.5L turbo V-6, or a 2.5L turbo 4cyl. In fact, some of the smaller gas engines actually carry more oil per liter than the larger V-8 engines. I don't for a second believe that a small hot-rod gas turbo works any harder than a diesel truck pulling 12k pounds of hay three counties away on a hot August day. Again, proof please. Check the marketing hype at the door.

And we can see all the PROOF they brought to the discussion. All they do bring up is bottled water or starbucks INSTEAD of answering the REAL question. But that's ok as long as they are not posting every time someone asks what oil to run and their UNSUPPORTED answer. Very well put dnewton3. I could never put it as well as you did.. I used to waste $$ on things that did not matter. Then I grew up. On oil I've always done what I do today and never an problem over hundreds of thousands of miles. On yesterdays oils. And today's conventional oils ARE BETTER than the first syns. I love the it's "only" $8 more per change. If we do 3k OCI then that is "only" $400 over 150k miles (which my 05 is coming up to) That is "only" 5733 miles worth of gas @ $3 a gallon. I know where I'd rather spend the $$ because in the end, it does not matter. 5k OCI? Its "only" $240. Sadly most Syn users don't make it past that. Some of us go longer than that with conventional (and HAVE POSTED UOAs to SUPPORT them). I know I'll make 300-400k with no problems.

 Originally Posted By: toyotaguy

I don't think conventional oils are bad such as 5w20 penzz or valv. But If someone WANTS a full synthetic and it makes them more secure, then why is it a waste? People can be wasteful with lots of different things in there life. Such as beer, smokes etc

Then you admit that you have no PROOF that syn is GOING to make your engine last longer. You are running it because it makes you FEEL better. Cool! But don't feel anyone who runs conventional is doing anything wrong and their engine is protected as well as yours. Cause their engine is WELL protected. Millions of engines out there are proving this everyday. (and using other brands or weights than 5w-20 Pennzoil or Valvoline) Again, PLEASE SPEND some time reading this board. For the last 7 years there have been HUNDREDS of threads providing FACTS on Conventional vs Syn in the same engines. A LOT of excellent educational info here. I'd wish people would read it instead of just posting when they sign up. Take care, Bill

 

[toyotaguy]

That is being C.. ooops I mean Frugal bill.

 

[toyotaguy]

Well, I got rid of my home phone. Lets see, I use to give 23 a month to the phone comp. Now I use my cell phone. That is a savings of over 476 dollers a year. I do 5000 mile oci with synthetic oil at $240. Im stillup 26 bucks.. hey not bad.

 

[Bill in Utah]

 Originally Posted By: toyotaguy

That is being C.. ooops I mean Frugal bill.

Loving the PROOF you are bringing to the table... Call me cheap. I don't care. Call me whatever you'd like. I've spent the last 7 years here posting facts. Posting and helping people with their questions. BITOG was started on facts. Thousands of people come here to get actual info and then take that info back to their board and post it. I just care about this board. I hate one line answers that don't tell the facts.