>300VI is off the charts.
Thanks for the tech info though, that's always appreciated.
Thanks for the tech info though, that's always appreciated.
New Beetle PS Fluid?
- Thread starter gamefoo21
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Well I did find this stuff the other day...
http://www.championbrands.com/perform-pwr-str.html
It lists VW on the bottle and it's MSDS says it's 99-100% Mineral Oil... :|
So far so good on the Redline PSF in this thing, and yes it does meet the Benz specs as well, so that is good. The noise from turning the wheels has been greatly reduced. Since installing it.
http://www.championbrands.com/perform-pwr-str.html
It lists VW on the bottle and it's MSDS says it's 99-100% Mineral Oil... :|
So far so good on the Redline PSF in this thing, and yes it does meet the Benz specs as well, so that is good. The noise from turning the wheels has been greatly reduced. Since installing it.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
SynPower PSF is nothing special.
It is special when it is $1/quart and works in almost any vehicles.
Well, that belongs in the cheapskate forum, this is the technical forum, and, as I was speaking in technical terms.
If you think it properly replaces Pentosin, a pure PAO formulation, you are wrong.
Actually there is a forum on here where you get deals on products and it is called "Product Rebates, Sales and Promotions". This forum is called "ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S" and it is not the technical forum. The technical forum is called "Technical and White Papers". Got it?
Valvoline said it is OK to use Synpower PSF in a VW power steering and this is the topic we are discussing. We are not talking about central hydraulic where the Pentosin is needed. Valvoline also make a European Synpower PSF that is Pentosin compatible. I trust Valvoline recommendation over pretty much any one on this forum, your included.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
SynPower PSF is nothing special.
It is special when it is $1/quart and works in almost any vehicles.
Well, that belongs in the cheapskate forum, this is the technical forum, and, as I was speaking in technical terms.
If you think it properly replaces Pentosin, a pure PAO formulation, you are wrong.
Actually there is a forum on here where you get deals on products and it is called "Product Rebates, Sales and Promotions". This forum is called "ATF, Differential, Trans, Brakes, P/S" and it is not the technical forum. The technical forum is called "Technical and White Papers". Got it?
Valvoline said it is OK to use Synpower PSF in a VW power steering and this is the topic we are discussing. We are not talking about central hydraulic where the Pentosin is needed. Valvoline also make a European Synpower PSF that is Pentosin compatible. I trust Valvoline recommendation over pretty much any one on this forum, your included.
Using $1 PSF to replace $15 PSF fluid belongs on a forum of it's own.
Since you don't trust any recommendation except Valvoline, what are you doing here anyway?
http://valvoline.com
Believe me, I have FAR more experience with VW products that you ever will.
Since you don't trust any recommendation except Valvoline, what are you doing here anyway?
http://valvoline.com
Believe me, I have FAR more experience with VW products that you ever will.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Believe me, I have FAR more experience with VW products that you ever will.
The same can be said about the grease monkeys at the dealers and I don't trust them either. You apparently do not have any experience with using Synpower PSF in a VW power steering system; Valvoline does and so do I. I have been to Valvoline site and talk to them personally and that is why I know that you are wrong. You use ATF+4 in your VW products that is not approved by VW either.
Believe me, I have FAR more experience with VW products that you ever will.
The same can be said about the grease monkeys at the dealers and I don't trust them either. You apparently do not have any experience with using Synpower PSF in a VW power steering system; Valvoline does and so do I. I have been to Valvoline site and talk to them personally and that is why I know that you are wrong. You use ATF+4 in your VW products that is not approved by VW either.
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Is SynPower approved by VW? No.
Is ATF+4 approved by oem mfgs, like Mercedes? Yes.
Have I used SynPower in VWs? Yes.
Was I smart enough to find a better fluid? Yes.
Is ATF+4 approved by oem mfgs, like Mercedes? Yes.
Have I used SynPower in VWs? Yes.
Was I smart enough to find a better fluid? Yes.
1. Synpower PSF is recommended by Valvoline to use in a VW power steering system. Valvoline is the people that make a Pentosin compatible fluid in Europe, and it is called Valvoline Synpower PSF.
2. ATF+4 is not recommended by anyone to use in a VW power steering system. Mercedes does not approved ATF+4 for VW.
3. You have not used Synpower PSF in a VW power steering system, you use ATF+4
4. Smart enough???? Better fluid by who's opinion?? Certainly not Valvoline or VW or Mercedes.
5. You need to stay on topic and that is "PS Fluid for a VW Beetle"
2. ATF+4 is not recommended by anyone to use in a VW power steering system. Mercedes does not approved ATF+4 for VW.
3. You have not used Synpower PSF in a VW power steering system, you use ATF+4
4. Smart enough???? Better fluid by who's opinion?? Certainly not Valvoline or VW or Mercedes.
5. You need to stay on topic and that is "PS Fluid for a VW Beetle"
1. So, you don't even use the correct Valvoline product.
2. You don't know anything about Mercedes or ATF+4, but you comment on it anyway.
3. You are incorrect again, and obviously dont' bother to use the search feature.
4. ATF+4 is closer in specs to the Pentosin, making the lame SynPower a stupid choice.
5. I'll decide what subjects I post on, not you.
If you think Valvoline PSF is better than Pentosin, you are wrong. If you think it's better than ATF+4, you are wrong again.
I use ATF+4 because it's better than Pentosin, and approved for PSF service by a Euro car mfg.
You use SynPower because it's cheaper. End of story.
2. You don't know anything about Mercedes or ATF+4, but you comment on it anyway.
3. You are incorrect again, and obviously dont' bother to use the search feature.
4. ATF+4 is closer in specs to the Pentosin, making the lame SynPower a stupid choice.
5. I'll decide what subjects I post on, not you.
If you think Valvoline PSF is better than Pentosin, you are wrong. If you think it's better than ATF+4, you are wrong again.
I use ATF+4 because it's better than Pentosin, and approved for PSF service by a Euro car mfg.
You use SynPower because it's cheaper. End of story.
Seems MB does use a vane style of pump similar to the Volkswagon.
In a pinch I'd grab a good quality +4 but after having the Maxlife Dex/Merc which says it meets the +4 spec get chewed up and spit out... I'd be a little worried for long term use, of course the Maxlife was going into a filthy system, and the fluid is horrible looking. I'll take a picture and upload it later.
So far so good with the Redline PSF, same price per container as the Amsoil, but 946ml vs 450ml(IIRC), makes it half the price of the Amsoil product. The power steering is getting quieter everyday it seems, now it's almost silent except for a little noise when turning the wheel on dry pavement when sitting still.
Going to be installing a Magnefine inline filter on the line running from the res to the pump.
In a pinch I'd grab a good quality +4 but after having the Maxlife Dex/Merc which says it meets the +4 spec get chewed up and spit out... I'd be a little worried for long term use, of course the Maxlife was going into a filthy system, and the fluid is horrible looking. I'll take a picture and upload it later.
So far so good with the Redline PSF, same price per container as the Amsoil, but 946ml vs 450ml(IIRC), makes it half the price of the Amsoil product. The power steering is getting quieter everyday it seems, now it's almost silent except for a little noise when turning the wheel on dry pavement when sitting still.
Going to be installing a Magnefine inline filter on the line running from the res to the pump.
Sounds good. My friend had good results in his leaking Audi with Royal Purple.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I use ATF+4 because it's better than Pentosin, and approved for PSF service by a Euro car mfg.
You use SynPower because it's cheaper. End of story.
ATF+4 is not approved by VW nor Mercedes nor Pentosin for the Beetle PS, on topic and end of story.
There is no proof that ATF+4 is better than Pentosin, only your imagination. Synpower PSF is approved by Valvoline for the Beetle PS, and the drive continues. Synpower PSF used to be cheaper than Pentosin so that is a bonus.
I use ATF+4 because it's better than Pentosin, and approved for PSF service by a Euro car mfg.
You use SynPower because it's cheaper. End of story.
ATF+4 is not approved by VW nor Mercedes nor Pentosin for the Beetle PS, on topic and end of story.
There is no proof that ATF+4 is better than Pentosin, only your imagination. Synpower PSF is approved by Valvoline for the Beetle PS, and the drive continues. Synpower PSF used to be cheaper than Pentosin so that is a bonus.
No proof? Only the dozens of Audi drivers I know who have switched over and thanked me. Daimler-Chrysler approved it for PSF and uses it oem. Who uses cheap Valvoline with poor specs for oem PSF? huh?
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I use ATF+4 because it's better than Pentosin, and approved for PSF service by a Euro car mfg.
You use SynPower because it's cheaper. End of story.
Synpower PSF is approved by Valvoline for the Beetle PS, and the drive continues.
approved by valvoline but not VW is the key in this statement.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I use ATF+4 because it's better than Pentosin, and approved for PSF service by a Euro car mfg.
You use SynPower because it's cheaper. End of story.
Synpower PSF is approved by Valvoline for the Beetle PS, and the drive continues.
approved by valvoline but not VW is the key in this statement.
Boys, boys, boys. Here is the bottom line.
It seems the Maxlife did not work but the RL is, and that's great.
One of you has had good luck with Valvoline Syn PSF, and that's great.
One of you has had good luck with ATF+4, and that's great.
Neither of you have tried the two above products talked about in your applications, and that's okay.
I like Coke and you like Pepsi and you will never get me to change, and that's okay.
Now, both of you get off of your power trip or I will put you in my basement with a pair of gloves to settle this stupid argument.
Have a nice day.
It seems the Maxlife did not work but the RL is, and that's great.
One of you has had good luck with Valvoline Syn PSF, and that's great.
One of you has had good luck with ATF+4, and that's great.
Neither of you have tried the two above products talked about in your applications, and that's okay.
I like Coke and you like Pepsi and you will never get me to change, and that's okay.
Now, both of you get off of your power trip or I will put you in my basement with a pair of gloves to settle this stupid argument.
Have a nice day.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I like Coke and you like Pepsi and you will never get me to change, and that's okay.
good likening
I like Coke and you like Pepsi and you will never get me to change, and that's okay.
good likening
Trying to wrap my head around the 'facts' as they exist in this thread. So far...
My cars are spec'd for Pentosin CHF11s (aka Febi S6161) which is replaced by CHF202. The gamefoo21's car is spec'd for CHF11s as well. Older VWs & Audis were spec'd for CHF7.1
gamefoo21 tried Valvoline Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF, found it lacking. Switched to Redline PSF and so far seems pleased with it.
azsynthetic uses Valvoline Synpower PSF which is NLA in the USA, but has a big stock of it (some version of this fluid is still available in Europe).
Audi Junkie likes ATF+4 and has had good comments on it from other Audi owners; MB specifies ATF+4 and their PS systems are made by the same company as VW/Audi (presumably all VAG power steering systems) and have a similar vane-type pump.
Royal Purple apparently worked in one Audi's leaky system.
Johnny likes Coke, but I do not personally care for Pepsi - Mexican Coke or Heritage Dr Pepper only, please.
Still no evidence - anecdotal or otherwise - regarding Amsoil, Schaeffer, Mobil 1 ATF, etc...
My cars are spec'd for Pentosin CHF11s (aka Febi S6161) which is replaced by CHF202. The gamefoo21's car is spec'd for CHF11s as well. Older VWs & Audis were spec'd for CHF7.1
gamefoo21 tried Valvoline Maxlife Dex/Merc ATF, found it lacking. Switched to Redline PSF and so far seems pleased with it.
azsynthetic uses Valvoline Synpower PSF which is NLA in the USA, but has a big stock of it (some version of this fluid is still available in Europe).
Audi Junkie likes ATF+4 and has had good comments on it from other Audi owners; MB specifies ATF+4 and their PS systems are made by the same company as VW/Audi (presumably all VAG power steering systems) and have a similar vane-type pump.
Royal Purple apparently worked in one Audi's leaky system.
Johnny likes Coke, but I do not personally care for Pepsi - Mexican Coke or Heritage Dr Pepper only, please.
Still no evidence - anecdotal or otherwise - regarding Amsoil, Schaeffer, Mobil 1 ATF, etc...
http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/Power Steering Fluid Product Data.pdf
Says it meets the MB and VW/Audi specs.
CHF11s was rather hard to meet, very good low temp handling, high VI, etc. 202 isn't all that difficult to meet, it became Semi-Syn, and it's -52c pour point isn't much better than Redlines -50c, and the Redline will stomp both when it comes to higher temperatures.
Amsoil, doesn't exactly volunteer a lot of info about their PSF, and it's hard to find on their site.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/psf.aspx
At it's price, the Redline at 32oz for the same price is a faaar better deal.
Mobil 1 since it was updated to be Dex VI, will probably handle life as well as the Maxlife... Works well for a bit then starts to fail, due to the shearing that happens.
A straight +4 will probably work just fine, as the Audi guys say.
Royal Purple is just purple snake oil, too much hit/miss for me to ever recommend that goo.
Schaeffers doesn't make a PSF.
Pepsi > Coke. Canada doesn't have a corn lobby, so we get sugar in our pop, rather than that poisonous garbage called High Fructose Corn Syrup...
Says it meets the MB and VW/Audi specs.
CHF11s was rather hard to meet, very good low temp handling, high VI, etc. 202 isn't all that difficult to meet, it became Semi-Syn, and it's -52c pour point isn't much better than Redlines -50c, and the Redline will stomp both when it comes to higher temperatures.
Amsoil, doesn't exactly volunteer a lot of info about their PSF, and it's hard to find on their site.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/psf.aspx
At it's price, the Redline at 32oz for the same price is a faaar better deal.
Mobil 1 since it was updated to be Dex VI, will probably handle life as well as the Maxlife... Works well for a bit then starts to fail, due to the shearing that happens.
A straight +4 will probably work just fine, as the Audi guys say.
Royal Purple is just purple snake oil, too much hit/miss for me to ever recommend that goo.
Schaeffers doesn't make a PSF.
Pepsi > Coke. Canada doesn't have a corn lobby, so we get sugar in our pop, rather than that poisonous garbage called High Fructose Corn Syrup...
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New Beetle PS Fluid?
The problem w/Pentosin it it's TOO thin. Audi PS systems die a dime a dozen on it. Nobody can tell me it's good, except on paper. I've asked for someone to hook a remote temp gauge to the reservior to get a reading.
Bottom line, they die well before 100k and even sometimes right after some doughnuts or tracking. When the system heats and the fluid thins, the pump starts to have metal-to-metal contact and produces more heat...going into a runaway heating situation. That warps the seals and throws abrasive metal into the system.
Many guys who've diy replaced the racks or pumps clean out the system and get a quarter cup of metal shavings. MB used to use Pentosin, but uses ATF+4 now. That tells me a lot.
Bottom line, they die well before 100k and even sometimes right after some doughnuts or tracking. When the system heats and the fluid thins, the pump starts to have metal-to-metal contact and produces more heat...going into a runaway heating situation. That warps the seals and throws abrasive metal into the system.
Many guys who've diy replaced the racks or pumps clean out the system and get a quarter cup of metal shavings. MB used to use Pentosin, but uses ATF+4 now. That tells me a lot.
I have a couple of quarts of ATF+4 and I was wondering how it would work in a GM power steering system. My Buick is starting to 'groan' a little again at 116K. I currently have Walmart brand PS fluid in the system. Would ATF+4 or Dexron III work better?
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