Need help making my mind up BMW LL-01 / B46 engine - mindlock

Synapse

Thread starter
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
26
Location
High Point, NC
What is the issue wtih this LM oil? This is what they show for your car, not the LLHT - why is FCP showing that?

I’m not sure I understand. That oil doesn’t come in a kit, not that I’m opposed to that. I don’t know anything about that oil though.

To the person commenting about the BMW TPT, only the 0W20 comes up for my car. I don’t think the 20 protects well enough, but I would use the 0W30 - that stuff is crazy expensive compared to a $20 bottle of Valvoline though. I don’t really mind spending $75, but don’t want to unless it’s necessary and makes me feel warm and fuzzy for a good reason. I get that feeling with the Motul, but not with the BMW TPT.
 

Synapse

Thread starter
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
26
Location
High Point, NC
Ll-01 ! Nothing else
The Valvoline European 5W40 has LL-01 approval, and it is priced at $19.99 and locally available. Pretty hard deal to beat, and I don't have to ship anything back. The car isn't street raced, tracked, and such a short OCI, I don't see how I could have any issues. Will be sticking to Mann or Mahle OE/OEM filters.

I will have to checkout the Carquest to see what brand is in the box, not sure if it's any cheaper than Amazon. It was a little over $12 shipped, next day - tax included - for the BMW branded Mann. I would also probably be perfectly fine with the Pennzoil Euro or Quaker State Euro, but the official approval and Valvoline makes me "feel" better about it, so I believe that is the route I am taking. Still have 2000 miles to think this over, just wanted to get out of the perpetual mindlock conundrum I was in.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
13,581
Location
Colorado Springs
The Valvoline European 5W40 has LL-01 approval, and it is priced at $19.99 and locally available. Pretty hard deal to beat, and I don't have to ship anything back. The car isn't street raced, tracked, and such a short OCI, I don't see how I could have any issues. Will be sticking to Mann or Mahle OE/OEM filters.

I will have to checkout the Carquest to see what brand is in the box, not sure if it's any cheaper than Amazon. It was a little over $12 shipped, next day - tax included - for the BMW branded Mann. I would also probably be perfectly fine with the Pennzoil Euro or Quaker State Euro, but the official approval and Valvoline makes me "feel" better about it, so I believe that is the route I am taking. Still have 2000 miles to think this over, just wanted to get out of the perpetual mindlock conundrum I was in.
Both Pennzoil and Quaker State have approval.
However, Valvoline will donut good, track or not. It has Porsche A40, which means track tested.
 
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
2,211
Location
Richmond, VA area
I’m not sure I understand. That oil doesn’t come in a kit, not that I’m opposed to that. I don’t know anything about that oil though.

To the person commenting about the BMW TPT, only the 0W20 comes up for my car. I don’t think the 20 protects well enough, but I would use the 0W30 - that stuff is crazy expensive compared to a $20 bottle of Valvoline though. I don’t really mind spending $75, but don’t want to unless it’s necessary and makes me feel warm and fuzzy for a good reason. I get that feeling with the Motul, but not with the BMW TPT.
According to the LM site, your vehicle doens't take the 5W40/LL-01 oils was all I was saying - looks to be an 0W20 with different approvals. The LM site doens't show the 5W40/LL-01 oils for your car but I see FCP's site does. Not that it likely matters - just pointing it out. Note - I'm not the BMW guy here as some of these fine folks commenting are I'm sure. Just wonder is this like VW - where almost all of their engines took the VW502/xW40 for years but now for those same cars they are doing the 508/0W20 for fuel efficiency? I'm quite sure the Valvoline 5W40 will work just fine.

Capture.JPG
 
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
2,103
Location
Toronto-ish, Canada
Two potentially useful BMW documents for this and other discussions, if they haven't been reshared already.
Look up your engine, and see which oils are considered recommended/approved.

In general LL-04, LL-14 are low SAPs (if that's your thing, and depending on where in the world you are). LL-01 is full/mid SAPs, if that's your thing, and it was updated in 2018 taking into account N20 longevity issues and increased oxidation resistance.

LL-01, especially LL-01 (2008) results in a strong oil, from what I can see, leading to 5W40s these days in general. It's been my choice to stick with LL-01 in my N55, even though I thought about going low SAPS since Canadian fuel is "supposed" to be "low" in sulphur now.
 

Attachments

  • TIS - Viscosity classification.pdf
    195.7 KB · Views: 13
  • TIS - Technically Suitable Engine Oils.pdf
    267.6 KB · Views: 16
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
13,581
Location
Colorado Springs
Thank you for the BMW lesson. All sorted now.

One more - are the approvals backwards compatible?
Depends on an engine. But BMW doesn’t specifically says as VW in case of VW504/507.
For example, they used LL01 in N20, then LL01FE then LL14. Now go to is LL17FE, but mostly to streamline fuel efficient oils bcs. logistics.
All can use LL01 or LL04 (those with GPF must use LL04).
What is indicative is that BMW completely pulled out LL01 few years back and move to LL01FE, just to reintroduce LL01 last year again. To me that says that these thin oils are not performing as intended. Som UOA of LL17FE I saw on BMW forums doing full OCI indicate a lot of oxidative thickening and drop in flash point to low 300’s.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
19,240
Location
Upper Midwest
But within the same approval it is always backwards compatible. Longlife-01 has changed over the years but any engine that requires LL-01 can use the latest iteration of the approval. The same logic applies when BMW does supersede the approval name for the "same" requirement, such as Longlife-98 and Special Oils are both covered by Longlife-01.

Plus then they did issue service information for Europe which stated that Longlife-04 could be used instead of Longlife-01. I never saw anything that was a subsequent blanket authorization for any market where low-sulfur fuel was being used, but that was the reasoning behind the allowance in Europe.
 
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
13,581
Location
Colorado Springs
But within the same approval it is always backwards compatible. Longlife-01 has changed over the years but any engine that requires LL-01 can use the latest iteration of the approval. The same logic applies when BMW does supersede the approval name for the "same" requirement, such as Longlife-98 and Special Oils are both covered by Longlife-01.

Plus then they did issue service information for Europe which stated that Longlife-04 could be used instead of Longlife-01. I never saw anything that was a subsequent blanket authorization for any market where low-sulfur fuel was being used, but that was the reasoning behind the allowance in Europe.
Yeah, but I believe he is asking specific language that is present in VW 504.507 specification. BMW doesn’t have that and while it is correct what you saying, in practice it is not.
It is more confusing. BMW says LL17FE is go to. Low-SAPS oil. But, if needed to add LL01, which is High-SAPS. They just never bothered to add LL04 after US moved to ULSG. Nothing new for BMW.
Mercedes is much better in recommending oils to customers.
 

Synapse

Thread starter
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
26
Location
High Point, NC
I managed to pry the oil used by the dealership out of them. 0W20 STP Full Synthetic. I was planning to change at 5k, does anyone think I should go ahead and change it early? Currently at 3000 on this oil, have Valvoline 5W40 Euro and Mann filter in stock in my garage.
 
Top