15bucks a jug. Great price, but does it mean they ain't gonna stock it anymore? Every time I go to Walmart the PU is the only section that's fully stocked right to the edge. All the other Mobil 1 oils and PP have empty spaces and show some activity. I assume these oils have to earn their shelf space at Walmart or eventually they get pulled. Will be interesting to see how PU does longterm.
"MY" Ultra Story
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I honestly don't care about the price of an oil if I want it, but I like to economize, and dino usually fits my needs of short drains.
Just trying 6mo drains now for the first time and yikes, it's harder NOT to change oil than to go out and do it!
Just trying 6mo drains now for the first time and yikes, it's harder NOT to change oil than to go out and do it!
Originally Posted By: stenerson
15bucks a jug. Great price, but does it mean they ain't gonna stock it anymore? Every time I go to Walmart the PU is the only section that's fully stocked right to the edge. All the other Mobil 1 oils and PP have empty spaces and show some activity. I assume these oils have to earn their shelf space at Walmart or eventually they get pulled. Will be interesting to see how PU does longterm.
I am not sure how Walmart does it(Does anyone know though) but over the years I have seen them dump a particular brand, Motorcraft and Havoline and then restock the same oil, a month later. My Walmart still does not sell Havoline, they dumped it all about year ago at clearance prices at all the area Walmarts. Same with Motorcraft, now its back in full force. 5w20 seems to be a popular clearance oil too, I think that may be regional though, because of the Hot temps in Florida, its just not as popular a mover as the 30 wts. I bought about two cases of Mobil 5000 in 5w20 a year ago for $1.00 a piece, now they have it back on the shelf priced the same as the other wts, go figure.
15bucks a jug. Great price, but does it mean they ain't gonna stock it anymore? Every time I go to Walmart the PU is the only section that's fully stocked right to the edge. All the other Mobil 1 oils and PP have empty spaces and show some activity. I assume these oils have to earn their shelf space at Walmart or eventually they get pulled. Will be interesting to see how PU does longterm.
I am not sure how Walmart does it(Does anyone know though) but over the years I have seen them dump a particular brand, Motorcraft and Havoline and then restock the same oil, a month later. My Walmart still does not sell Havoline, they dumped it all about year ago at clearance prices at all the area Walmarts. Same with Motorcraft, now its back in full force. 5w20 seems to be a popular clearance oil too, I think that may be regional though, because of the Hot temps in Florida, its just not as popular a mover as the 30 wts. I bought about two cases of Mobil 5000 in 5w20 a year ago for $1.00 a piece, now they have it back on the shelf priced the same as the other wts, go figure.
Just a wild theory on that.
Walmarts purchasing department calls Brand X and says 'we're paying you too much for product Y' to which they reply
'sorry, we can't sell it cheaper' which leads to
'well, fine, we'll just quit buying' - product gets listed as a 'clearance item'
Brand X's sales drop drastically and Brand X management calls back Big Sams's version of a company that would make him crankshaft in his grave and says 'we're sorry, we will play ball with you and sell our product on a .0001% Margin because without the volume we cannot attain supplies at competitive rates.
And the product shows back up on shelves.
My wild theory on dealing with the giant that is Walmarts Purchasing department....
Walmarts purchasing department calls Brand X and says 'we're paying you too much for product Y' to which they reply
'sorry, we can't sell it cheaper' which leads to
'well, fine, we'll just quit buying' - product gets listed as a 'clearance item'
Brand X's sales drop drastically and Brand X management calls back Big Sams's version of a company that would make him crankshaft in his grave and says 'we're sorry, we will play ball with you and sell our product on a .0001% Margin because without the volume we cannot attain supplies at competitive rates.
And the product shows back up on shelves.
My wild theory on dealing with the giant that is Walmarts Purchasing department....
The vast majority of oil purchasers in Walmart are not oil savvy like those on this board. Price point and brand recognition and time are the factors for the average consumer.
So say an average consumer walks into Walmart to buy oil. One segment of the average consumer doesn't care for synthetics, either has always used conventional or doesn't see any need to spend more. What does he buy? Well the price sensitive one will buy the cheapest conventional, especially if he believes that all oils are the same, while the brand sensitive one will go with whatever brand has made the biggest impression on him over the years for whatever reason. Another consumer might buy into the idea of a high mileage oil in the price range or brand that makes sense. So Walmart offers all the best known brands in conventional, with it's own brand, plus high mileage variants. It covers all the bases in conventional oil.
Then come to synthetics. So now comes a consumer who wants a synthetic but not at any price, otherwise they wouldn't be in Walmart. So what's the pricing like. Well Walmart own brand for those who believe synthetic is better but that all synthetics are the same, will sell for the highest price possible before getting to the brands. Same as was the case with conventional, they are getting as much out of the price sensitive customer as possible by selling own brand just below the cheapest brand price.
Then the brands line up from lower cost upwards in terms of perceived value as well as any need to clear stock to make way for new bottles. So QS is $18. Least brand recognition. PP is now $20.50 but only to make way for the new bottles or as part of some master plan going on with SPOUS for positioning of Ultra (which I don't understand and will come to next).
Then you have Castrol, Mobil etc with at least 2 variants of full syn. Firstly, where they have both done a good job, Mobil 1 far better than Castrol, is to segment the premium market.
While Castrol have put together a gold colored bottle for Edge and at least mention the 15k extended interval, it takes some time to understand the progression from one castrol to the next. The use of the name "Edge" suggests a completely different product. It is not apparent what the advantage of this new product is to the average Walmart person who wants to buy synthetic. He knows it is a gold bottle but it's also $4 more.
Mobil have been extremely clever with M1. With the M1 brand established as a premium synthetic, they build off that recognition by keeping the M1 name in their premium diversified products. Mobil 1 Extended Performance says what it is directly ie the M1 you know with a longer drain. Compared to Edge, this is very clear. On top of that there are M1 versions that do other things ie advanced fuel economy and high mileage. So again, leverage the brand recognition and clearly differentiate.
So, when presented with the synthetic variants all on the shelf together, the average synthetic buyer in Walmart will go through the following process. 1) There's Mobil 1, I've heard about that synthetic. 2) Wow, there's a different type of Mobil 1 for my needs - high mileage, extended performance, better fuel economy as well as regular 3) So synthetics really do offer advantages. Which one do I want. I'm going to go for the extended performance as then I don't need to change the oil as often 4) Oh, it's $4 more. That's ok, it's lasting twice as long.
The whole setup by Mobil 1 is very well conceived. Where Castrol Edge fail is that the product is completely new and it's not apparent what the benefits are. Additionally, Castrol's existing sub brands - GTX and Syntec are quite strong, GTX in particular. So GTX high mileage works very well and prevents there from being a synthetic high mileage at a premium price. In my opinion they should think about having classic GTX, and then making a synthetic GTX with variants a la Mobil (but this would require an overhaul of everything they've done). But the point is, they haven't leveraged their well known GTX sub brand enought.
So onto Pennzoil Ultra, it's positioning is even worse than Castrol. Yes Ultra is a good name ahead of Platinum, yes the bottle looks good, yes the piston picture is good, yes the Ferrari endorsement is good. But the angle is not compelling in the way that Mobil 1 is.
Firstly the benefit is that it's going to do a better job than another Pennzoil product. Well that means that Pennzoil wasn't perhaps as good as Mobil to begin with. Maybe this just gets them to an on par level with Mobil or Castrol.
Secondly, no sign that there's extended drain or fuel economy or high mileage benefits.
So the average Walmart consumer is left with the feeling that here's the most expensive oil they want me to buy and it's endorsed by Ferrari which is another expensive thing which is way out of my reach. In other words, it's premium, it's expensive, it's not what I came to Walmart for.
I think they would have done better calling this Pennzoil Platinum Advanced / Ultra and then claiming longer drain intervals, improved fuel economy, improved cleaning (with the relevant small print), pricing it at $26 ie below M1 extended, and the value proposition would have been this is the next version of PP, it's a little more but still cheaper than M1's best and it does all the things that M1's extended line does, but in one formula.
So say an average consumer walks into Walmart to buy oil. One segment of the average consumer doesn't care for synthetics, either has always used conventional or doesn't see any need to spend more. What does he buy? Well the price sensitive one will buy the cheapest conventional, especially if he believes that all oils are the same, while the brand sensitive one will go with whatever brand has made the biggest impression on him over the years for whatever reason. Another consumer might buy into the idea of a high mileage oil in the price range or brand that makes sense. So Walmart offers all the best known brands in conventional, with it's own brand, plus high mileage variants. It covers all the bases in conventional oil.
Then come to synthetics. So now comes a consumer who wants a synthetic but not at any price, otherwise they wouldn't be in Walmart. So what's the pricing like. Well Walmart own brand for those who believe synthetic is better but that all synthetics are the same, will sell for the highest price possible before getting to the brands. Same as was the case with conventional, they are getting as much out of the price sensitive customer as possible by selling own brand just below the cheapest brand price.
Then the brands line up from lower cost upwards in terms of perceived value as well as any need to clear stock to make way for new bottles. So QS is $18. Least brand recognition. PP is now $20.50 but only to make way for the new bottles or as part of some master plan going on with SPOUS for positioning of Ultra (which I don't understand and will come to next).
Then you have Castrol, Mobil etc with at least 2 variants of full syn. Firstly, where they have both done a good job, Mobil 1 far better than Castrol, is to segment the premium market.
While Castrol have put together a gold colored bottle for Edge and at least mention the 15k extended interval, it takes some time to understand the progression from one castrol to the next. The use of the name "Edge" suggests a completely different product. It is not apparent what the advantage of this new product is to the average Walmart person who wants to buy synthetic. He knows it is a gold bottle but it's also $4 more.
Mobil have been extremely clever with M1. With the M1 brand established as a premium synthetic, they build off that recognition by keeping the M1 name in their premium diversified products. Mobil 1 Extended Performance says what it is directly ie the M1 you know with a longer drain. Compared to Edge, this is very clear. On top of that there are M1 versions that do other things ie advanced fuel economy and high mileage. So again, leverage the brand recognition and clearly differentiate.
So, when presented with the synthetic variants all on the shelf together, the average synthetic buyer in Walmart will go through the following process. 1) There's Mobil 1, I've heard about that synthetic. 2) Wow, there's a different type of Mobil 1 for my needs - high mileage, extended performance, better fuel economy as well as regular 3) So synthetics really do offer advantages. Which one do I want. I'm going to go for the extended performance as then I don't need to change the oil as often 4) Oh, it's $4 more. That's ok, it's lasting twice as long.
The whole setup by Mobil 1 is very well conceived. Where Castrol Edge fail is that the product is completely new and it's not apparent what the benefits are. Additionally, Castrol's existing sub brands - GTX and Syntec are quite strong, GTX in particular. So GTX high mileage works very well and prevents there from being a synthetic high mileage at a premium price. In my opinion they should think about having classic GTX, and then making a synthetic GTX with variants a la Mobil (but this would require an overhaul of everything they've done). But the point is, they haven't leveraged their well known GTX sub brand enought.
So onto Pennzoil Ultra, it's positioning is even worse than Castrol. Yes Ultra is a good name ahead of Platinum, yes the bottle looks good, yes the piston picture is good, yes the Ferrari endorsement is good. But the angle is not compelling in the way that Mobil 1 is.
Firstly the benefit is that it's going to do a better job than another Pennzoil product. Well that means that Pennzoil wasn't perhaps as good as Mobil to begin with. Maybe this just gets them to an on par level with Mobil or Castrol.
Secondly, no sign that there's extended drain or fuel economy or high mileage benefits.
So the average Walmart consumer is left with the feeling that here's the most expensive oil they want me to buy and it's endorsed by Ferrari which is another expensive thing which is way out of my reach. In other words, it's premium, it's expensive, it's not what I came to Walmart for.
I think they would have done better calling this Pennzoil Platinum Advanced / Ultra and then claiming longer drain intervals, improved fuel economy, improved cleaning (with the relevant small print), pricing it at $26 ie below M1 extended, and the value proposition would have been this is the next version of PP, it's a little more but still cheaper than M1's best and it does all the things that M1's extended line does, but in one formula.
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rjacket, that is a very well thought out response. You should send it to the Shell/Pennzoil marketing department.
Originally Posted By: Hemi426
Ultra has already proven that it can go extended drain intervals judging by the used oil analysis. What's a measly $28 when you only have to change it every twice to maybe three times a year?
I don't disagree with you, but the average Walmart consumer doesn't know what we know.
The good news for us is that this makes it even more likely to go on clearance and enable those who know to get a great oil and a great price.
Ultra has already proven that it can go extended drain intervals judging by the used oil analysis. What's a measly $28 when you only have to change it every twice to maybe three times a year?
I don't disagree with you, but the average Walmart consumer doesn't know what we know.
The good news for us is that this makes it even more likely to go on clearance and enable those who know to get a great oil and a great price.
Ultra went to $23 and Platinum to $19 at my local Walmart here in Indy.
I know there's no relationship but gasoline has plunged from 2.85 to 2.35 in a month, and this is the time when it's normally jacked up in price for the Indy 500 visitors.
I know there's no relationship but gasoline has plunged from 2.85 to 2.35 in a month, and this is the time when it's normally jacked up in price for the Indy 500 visitors.
Wish it were $2.35 here. We went all the way down to $2.73 and stopped. Waiting for the next increase.
Ultra is $28, Platinum is $20.5 and Synpower is $24 at my local Walmart here in So Cal, Synpower is $1 more than M1 at $23 .
Just filled up with Chevron premium at $3.39.
Just filled up with Chevron premium at $3.39.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Wish it were $2.35 here. We went all the way down to $2.73 and stopped. Waiting for the next increase.
Wish it were that cheap here! 87 octane gas is $3.66 per gallon at most major stations in Toronto this weekend (the price changes daily at midnight on weekdays) and it's a whopping $4.16 a gallon for premium!
Wish it were $2.35 here. We went all the way down to $2.73 and stopped. Waiting for the next increase.
Wish it were that cheap here! 87 octane gas is $3.66 per gallon at most major stations in Toronto this weekend (the price changes daily at midnight on weekdays) and it's a whopping $4.16 a gallon for premium!
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