Pennzoil ULTRA versus Red Line

[Built_Well]

Sorry, gang, I got a little greedy and made a second 44-mile round trip this morning to buy 2 more jugs of Ultra at the Ferguson Walmart. So now only 1 jug remains at that Walmart if you want it.

I'm kind of concerned about storing the oil for 4 years but they say oil's shelf-life is 5 years, so I guess it'll be okay. My current fill has been in the car 11 months, so the 4 jugs should last me close to 4 years.

GMBoy, I bought just 2 Ultra jugs yesterday, thinking that I would try Mobil 1 EP in 2 years, but then I saw the following page which convinced me to stick with Ultra rather than try M1 EP.

Wow, on the following page, it says Pennzoil Ultra keeps pistons up to 25 percent cleaner than Mobil 1, according to independent standardized tests:
[a href="http://www.pennzoil.com/motor-oil/pennzoil-ultra-synthetic-oil/"]http://www.pennzoil.com/motor-oil/pennzoil-ultra-synthetic-oil/[/a].

It seems Ultra is much better than Mobil 1 Extended Performance, and they're both priced the same to the penny. I just hope there will be no problems storing my Ultra jugs for up to 4 years? Is there anything to keep in mind with long-term storage of oil?

I'll definitely get a Blackstone analysis of my current fill of Ultra since I'm now committed to using Ultra for the next 4 years (5 years total, counting the current fill).

On my way back from the Ferguson Walmart, I stopped in at the Ferguson O'Reilly's, AutoZone, and Advance Auto (all 3 stores are on the same block about a mile south of that Walmart). Oh my gosh, Ferguson is Ultra nirvanna. Their AutoZone had 15 one-quart bottles of Ultra 5w-30 and another 15 bottles of the 10w-30. Price wasn't nirvanna: 9.59 per quart.

Did a little more research and found out right now you can still get an Ultra oil change performed at the Chesterfield Walmart but they won't sell you the individual Ultra bottles or jugs. I don't live in Chesterfield but somebody said to check for Ultra at the Walmarts in the affluent parts of town. The Chesterfield Walmart will just sell you an Ultra oil change, not the bottles themselves. So I don't know if they have the Ultra in bulk or in individual bottles, but I guess it doesn't matter if they will only give you the Ultra with an oil change performed by their technicians.

I'm really sorry to see Ultra go if indeed it's going.

Dparm, you mentioned that "Red Line is a jump in a different direction from Ultra."

Can I ask in what direction Red Line is jumping differently than Ultra? I know Red Line is mostly a Group V esther, and Ultra is strong in Group IV PAO and Group III. Do you think Red Line can't hold up for a full year and 8,000 miles?

TommyGunn, there are no Pep Boys in St. Louis that I'm aware of.

Zako2, great point about how easy it is to confuse which product is better: Ultra or Platinum. It sounds like Pennzoil should have named "Ultra" something like "Platinum Plus" or "Platinum Extra" for the extra PAO in it--or even named it "Platinum Pizzaz"--anything but Ultra. My vote is for Platinum Plus. Maybe that's what they'll call Ultra's replacement, but like DgsBikes, I doubt it will be as good as Ultra, just like people say the second SSO was not really quite as good as the original SSO.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Dparm, you mentioned that "Red Line is a jump in a different direction from Ultra."

Can I ask in what direction Red Line is jumping differently than Ultra? I know Red Line is mostly a Group V esther, and Ultra is strong in Group IV PAO and Group III. Do you think Red Line can't hold up for a full year and 8,000 miles?



I can chime in on this one. Red Line is a considerably more heavyweight oil than PU. Comparing 5w30's, RL has an HTHS of 3.7, and PU has an HTHS of 3.1. I use RL in my track cars to get the benefit of higher HTHS in case of marginal lubrication conditions while in the turns. With the 20% higher HTHS, RL will cost some fuel economy compared to the lighter Ultra.
Both oils have NOACK'Sof about 6, and that's good.

You could consider RL 0w30 as a replacement for PU 5w30, because it has a comparable HTHS of 3.2. But its NOACK is 9, which is still very good, but slightly higher than PU's.

I have run RL 5w30 for two OCI's in my Camaro, and it has shown very low oil consumption compared to the M1 variants I was using before. The only beef I have with Red Line is that it doesn't seem capable of going past 7500 miles for an OCI. The first fill went 7400 miles, and the TBN was down to 2.35. The second fill was down to 2.6 at 5800 miles, and I have stretched it to 8000 miles to gauge its TBN retention at low numbers. I'll be doing an oil change in about a week, and sending in a sample to see how it did.

For the next oil fill in the Camaro, I'm thinking of doing a 50/50 blend of PU 5w30 with PU 5w40 Euro. I can't bring myself to run the Camaro on track with an oil having 3.1 HTHS, so am doing a blend to increase it to ~3.5.

 

[Built_Well]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
The only beef I have with Red Line is that it doesn't seem capable of going past 7500 miles for an OCI. The first fill went 7400 miles, and the TBN was down to 2.35. The second fill was down to 2.6 at 5800 miles, and I have stretched it to 8000 miles to gauge its TBN retention at low numbers. I'll be doing an oil change in about a week, and sending in a sample to see how it did.


Very interesting. You know, I was going to do the Ultra OCI at 7,500 miles (which I'll hit any day now), but maybe I'll wait until 8,000 miles to make it more interesting.

 

[A_Harman]

If your goal is 7500 mile OCI's on a street-driven Camry, I think Red Line 0w30 would be OK for that. A lot of times when BITOG'ers say they want extended oil change intervals, they are talking about 10,000+ miles.

 

[Built_Well]

Thanks, you obviously know a lot about engines and oils. I think for me 7,500 or 8,000 miles is an extended interval because I think my engine is a little hard on oil but not overly hard. Toyota recommends 5,000-mile OCIs for the 2AZ-FE engine which is a little tough on oil--not excessively tough, but a little tough. I'd love to stretch out my OCI to 10,000 miles, but when I tried 9,000 miles over 14 months with Amsoil SSO, the Blackstone report showed a flashpoint of 375, suggesting a little fuel dilution, a fellow BITOGer said.

So I guess I'll try 8,000 miles with Ultra.

 

[danthaman1980]

This Ultra situation reminds me of what would happen if a supplier experienced a long-term shortage of a particular precursor and a suitable replacement or substitution was not available. The manufacturer would not be able to produce enough to meet demand, so the retailers would take significant cuts and either drop the product or allocate the limited stock to high-demand outlets. That is the only explanation that makes sense to me - the majority of AZ, O'R, and WM locations simultaneously dropping the product is a serious indication that SOPUS can't keep the shelves full.

If that isn't the case, I think SOPUS just needs to re-stage Ultra in sexier bottle with a wide mouth so people will think it is as good as Syntec and M1. And ditch the black cap for a matching gray cap.

 

[buster]

Too many synthetic tiers. Cut the nonsense and offer 1, at most 2. Platinum had good brand presence. They all did the same thing. Some of the data suggests it's not working that well.

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Why be so concerned over finding Ultra? Just use ______ which is readily available and comparable?



BITOG gets OCD on certain things every so often. This year its PU. It was Havoline conventional years ago. Sorta like trending tweets or something of that nature.

I know that there are some members who loose sleep over things like this.

 

[buster]

Quote:
BITOG gets OCD on certain things every so often


haa very often. lol This site is for ocd oil wackos.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: Built_Well

Dparm, you mentioned that "Red Line is a jump in a different direction from Ultra."

Can I ask in what direction Red Line is jumping differently than Ultra? I know Red Line is mostly a Group V esther, and Ultra is strong in Group IV PAO and Group III. Do you think Red Line can't hold up for a full year and 8,000 miles?



My point was merely that you're going from an API-licensed off-the-shelf Group III/III+ oil to a boutique group V. It's the equivalent of saying, "I don't know if I want this Camry, so I'm going to buy a Bentley instead."

Yes, Red Line would work, but I'm not sure if you need to make that jump, just as a Camry will certainly accomplish the same thing as a Bentley...and you could've just bought an Altima instead.

 

[DragRace]

Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
BITOG gets OCD on certain things every so often


haa very often. lol This site is for ocd oil wackos.

 

[Built_Well]

A very smart and helpful BITOGer mentioned earlier that Ultra's Noack Volatility percentage is about 6. I just want to set the record straight and say that Ultra's 5w-30 Noack is 11.9 .

The first column of figures shows Pennzoil 5w-30 Ultra's numbers. The second column of figures shows the Amsoil 5w-30 "ASL" numbers. The third column shows Red Line's 5w-30 numbers:

Noack = 11.9 // 6.9 // 6

HT/HS Viscosity, cP = 3.1 // 3.2 // 3.7

Flash Point , *C = 224 // 226 // 232

Viscosity Index = 169 // 166 // 166

Viscosity @ 100*C, cSt = 10.3 // 10.5 // 11.9

Viscosity @ 40*C, cSt = 57.5 // 60.1 // 71

Although not readily shown on the Red Line and Pennzoil web sites, the Total Base Number for Amsoil 5w-30 "ASL" is 12.6 .
And the Amsoil Four-Ball Wear test result is 0.35 .

 

[richport29]

Originally Posted By: Built_Well
A very smart and helpful BITOGer mentioned earlier that Ultra's Noack Volatility percentage is about 6. I just want to set the record straight and say that Ultra's 5w-30 Noack is 11.9 .

The first column of figures shows Pennzoil 5w-30 Ultra's numbers. The second column of figures shows the Amsoil 5w-30 "ASL" numbers. The third column shows Red Line's 5w-30 numbers:

Noack = 11.9 // 6.9 // 6

HT/HS Viscosity, cP = 3.1 // 3.2 // 3.7

Flash Point , *C = 224 // 226 // 232

Viscosity Index = 169 // 166 // 166

Viscosity @ 100*C, cSt = 10.3 // 10.5 // 11.9

Viscosity @ 40*C, cSt = 57.5 // 60.1 // 71

Although not readily shown on the Red Line and Pennzoil web sites, the Total Base Number for Amsoil 5w-30 "ASL" is 12.6 .
And the Amsoil Four-Ball Wear test result is 0.35 .


That noack value for PU 5w-30 is for the old SM formula... Nice try though.

 

[A_Harman]

Yes, the PDS I have for SN Ultra 5w30, dated November 2011, lists NOACK as 6.4%. The PDS I have for Ultra Euro L 5w30 is 11%.

 

[Built_Well]

All the better...thanks for the good news. 6.4 is so much better than 11.9. Just kinda wish Pennzoil would update its web site

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Built_Well
All the better...thanks for the good news. 6.4 is so much better than 11.9. Just kinda wish Pennzoil would update its web site


Use the epc.shell.com website, it has the current data sheets on it.

 

[vo_marz]

Redline has 1400PPM of ZDDP , higher than average HTHS/NOACK and is a blend of PAO/POE (and none of the GTL/G3+ [censored])

and boatloads of UOA/ VOA's here.

It is literally ... overkill (pun intened LOL)

 

[Built_Well]

I think my game plan is this: After draining the current fill of 5w-30 Ultra at 8,000 miles later this month and getting a Blackstone report, I'll refill with Ultra. If the Blackstone report looks good at 8,000 miles, then next year during drain time I'll probably try Red Line 0w-30 at 7,500 or 8,000 miles, not Red Line 5w-30, in keeping with A_Harman's advice.

If, though, the Blackstone report doesn't come back positively or 100-percent satisfactorily this month, then next year at drain time I'll use Ultra again but cut back the OCI to 7,500 miles from 8,000.

By the way, I appreciate the folks on this site, so if one or two people in the U.S. or Canada want me to mail them some well-priced but hard-to-get Ultra, just send me a private message or post publicly in the forum. I was shocked by Clevy writing how expensive Ultra suddenly became in Canada.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: Built_Well

And the Amsoil Four-Ball Wear test result is 0.35 .



That is a worthless test. I wouldn't put much stock in it.

 

[skellyman]

The sad part is SOPUS won't offer their true World Class oils in the North American market.
Why do they continue to market tier 2 oils like Pennzoil as their 1st class product in North America ?