My personal website was just "trolled" by Fram

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I wish that someone would pay me excessively to surf the web and post positive comments on their name>.

My issues with certain cheaper oil filters: thin cans dent too easily, ADBV that don't quite work well, hit or miss bypass valves, and gimmicks like teflon infused or high mileage additive'd filters...
 
Listen all that may be true but bottom like is what does the filter look like when you cut it open? That is the question...You can listen to what everyone says but when you cut one open you can see it with your own eyes!
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Quote:
He's got a point about the major car makers using the fiber material end capped filters. I'd have to believe that the engineers in those car brands have to take a close look at the filters they are having make and selling as OEM parts.


Naw, the bean counters put the oil filter contract out to bid, "FRAM" won. Simple as that.

Ed


Could be ... but a car manufacture would have to be crazy have OEM parts made that would cause warranty problems. That would be a recipe for disaster and business failure.
 
Oh, the bid includes a set of minimum specifications that have to be met for sure. Who ever can build the filter the cheapest wins. The fact that a FRAM is a cheap filter to build is obvious.

Actually, I don't have any problem with the cardboard(cardboard is an engineered material) end caps as far as the bonding to the media goes. I don't like them for the fact that so much of the integrity of the entire filter system depends on the not so structurally stable fiber.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Oh, the bid includes a set of minimum specifications that have to be met for sure. Who ever can build the filter the cheapest wins. The fact that a FRAM is a cheap filter to build is obvious.

Actually, I don't have any problem with the cardboard(cardboard is an engineered material) end caps as far as the bonding to the media goes. I don't like them for the fact that so much of the integrity of the entire filter system depends on the not so structurally stable fiber.

Ed


From the photos I've seen of Honda and Subaru OEM filters by Honeywell ... it seems like they are better built than the FRAMs you find in the parts stores. Could be the auto makers specify better requirements on the filters, even if they are made along side the everyday OCOD by FRAM.
 
I dissected a Subaru FRAM and the OCD FRAM for my car purchased at Wal-Mart. The Subaru had a relief valve that met their higher specification, a P section gasket, and was painted blue. The rest of the filter was identical to the FRAM. Exact same filter element, nitrile ADV, and filter construction.

The OCD did appear have a denser(more pleats and evenly spaced) element than many of the FRAMs we see here, but was identical to the Subaru filter.

Ed
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
I dissected a Subaru FRAM and the OCD FRAM for my car purchased at Wal-Mart. The Subaru had a relief valve that met their higher specification, a P section gasket, and was painted blue. The rest of the filter was identical to the FRAM. Exact same filter element, nitrile ADV, and filter construction.

The OCD did appear have a denser(more pleats and evenly spaced) element than many of the FRAMs we see here, but was identical to the Subaru filter.

Ed


So the Fram you bought was different than any of the others cut open on this forum. But the same as a higher spec'd Subaru?
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
For me, it's about VALUE. I don't believe a Fram's construction is on par with competitors filters that sell at the same or lower prices. Therefore, the Fram represents less value for me.

Fram can be lumped in with Bose speakers and Monster cables.
I dont understand the affection with BOSE. These are absolutely not Hi-Fi speakers - just boom-tizz WAY overpriced upper low-end market stuff. But, I suppose except for a few, Hi-Fi is dead. I guess 99% of folks never heard Magnepan MG, Theil 3.0 or even KEF 103.2 with a nice Roland 7 or Sumo 9 amp and something other than a $200 horrendous sounding CD player. Vinyl is great!


Never Turn Down Press---If people are talking about you, you’re doing something right, “bad press" is good and “good press" is outstanding.

I'm fairly certain Fram doesn't mind having their name mentioned either way, as long as it's often, and on peoples minds when they shop for auto parts.

I have heard Magnepan's. I've listened to Theil's.I've owned Bose when it was what I could afford and their sub/sat system fit the room well. I like my Denon/Paradigm combo on my main home setup. My friend collects old (read expensive)audio equipment. He has a tube type Marantz amp. Very nice, like velvet. I agree the solid state stuff and our digital world is all attack and destroy. A lot of nuance is lost, only to be found in the old black circles of wax of yesterday, and preferably through tubes. But I still won't buy an orange Fram.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
For me, it's about VALUE. I don't believe a Fram's construction is on par with competitors filters that sell at the same or lower prices. Therefore, the Fram represents less value for me.

Fram can be lumped in with Bose speakers and Monster cables.
I dont understand the affection with BOSE. These are absolutely not Hi-Fi speakers - just boom-tizz WAY overpriced upper low-end market stuff. But, I suppose except for a few, Hi-Fi is dead. I guess 99% of folks never heard Magnepan MG, Theil 3.0 or even KEF 103.2 with a nice Roland 7 or Sumo 9 amp and something other than a $200 horrendous sounding CD player. Vinyl is great!
Back on subject - IMO Two(2) major issues with Fram:
1) ADBV with questionable integrity due to complex deep formed base plate (the oft heard noisy startup concerns
2) Typ LESS media area than competition.

Other than that - No outstanding engineering issues. "paper" encaps are not an issue whatsoever. Now if it had a paper centertube
shocked.gif



What's hifi? Did you mean wifi?
grin2.gif


I can't afford the amps you mentioned, but I do have a NAD C320BEE amp, C521BEE cd player mated to PSB monitors. My friends call me nuts having to listen to one CD at a time and have to manually change the music. They think it's prehistoric. Looks like CD is on it's way out.
 
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Whoa! I just replace my van's tape deck with a CD player!
mad.gif


(OK it plays MP3, also...)

Would that have been an 8-track or cassette player?
grin2.gif
 
I have purchased Fram TG's for my old 1995 Nissan Sentra. That vehicle was fed a steady diet of M1 and ran 15 years and 350K without leaking or burning oil. That is proof that their filters do work quite well. It wasn't until I joined this forum that I learned about Purolator Filters and found my new filter of choice. I am impressed that Fram graced you with an informative greeting... Disney would have been a different story all together. :P
 
I rarely use Fram oil filters and I can see the argument that there are filters for the same money with better construction and metal endcaps. But for all the criticism the Fram Extraguard gets and as suspicious as I might be of them at times, I've never really seen any conclusive proof that the design leaks internal or fails in any way in any significant numbers. Yes, the design does appear to be the result of cost-cutting but they appear to have good quality control. Perhaps it is just an inexpensively made filter that has good quality control and works.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I could swear that was posted here on this site before by someone else. It must be someone from Honeywell watches, or stumbles upon an attack, then pastes that message on the "offending board". Shows they at least care what the public is saying. I guess.

It was me.
 
Quote:
So the Fram you bought was different than any of the others cut open on this forum. But the same as a higher spec'd Subaru?


I was referring to the higher by-pass setting when I said higher spec'd in my post. The relief valve pressure of the Subaru filter is ~24 lbs vs the ~14 lbs. for the FRAM. The Subaru filter isn't higher spec'd, when it comes to filtration or internal construction quality. Those aspects of the filter are identical to a FRAM of that size.

FRAM filters do show some variation in the pleat count of the filters. The FRAM/Subaru element is on the better end of the scale. As shown in the links below, FRAM does use a higher pleat count in their smaller filters to maintain a certain level of efficiency.

The element in the Subaru/FRAM looks like this one:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/cut-open-fram-ph4967.145114/

VS this one, which has an element on the "worse" end of the spectrum:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fram-ph16-cut-open.143775/


Ed
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Whoa! I just replace my van's tape deck with a CD player!
mad.gif


(OK it plays MP3, also...)

Would that have been an 8-track or cassette player?
grin2.gif


What's an 8-track grandpa? (JK-I had one a long time ago)
 
Originally Posted By: bigmike
I want to know if the said failure rate is zero before or after usage on an automotive engine.


LMAO!!
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Listen all that may be true but bottom like is what does the filter look like when you cut it open? That is the question...You can listen to what everyone says but when you cut one open you can see it with your own eyes!


What kind of filtration or longevity tests can you do by just looking at it?
 
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