My personal website was just "trolled" by Fram

[Burt]

Originally Posted By: Audioquest
I cannot believe it. I host a little Honda CRX forum and I thought it was my duty to inform my members about the orange-can-of-death. Well, less than a few days later, my website gets a lengthy post from a Fram "technical manager" stating that my information is false and Fram is the best, blah, blah, blah... Here is the post:

Wow, I didn't realize Fram was paying it's employees to troll websites and forum to seek out and destroy all negative posts about their products.


Not sure why you are surprised. If I were Fram, I would want to correct information about my product, if I felt it were untrue. I don't think they are trying to destroy all negative posts, but just give their view. Everyone should be expected to have pride in their work product.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Audioquest
For me, it's about VALUE. I don't believe a Fram's construction is on par with competitors filters that sell at the same or lower prices. Therefore, the Fram represents less value for me.

Fram can be lumped in with Bose speakers and Monster cables.
I dont understand the affection with BOSE. These are absolutely not Hi-Fi speakers - just boom-tizz WAY overpriced upper low-end market stuff. But, I suppose except for a few, Hi-Fi is dead. I guess 99% of folks never heard Magnepan MG, Theil 3.0 or even KEF 103.2 with a nice Roland 7 or Sumo 9 amp and something other than a $200 horrendous sounding CD player. Vinyl is great!
Back on subject - IMO Two(2) major issues with Fram:
1) ADBV with questionable integrity due to complex deep formed base plate (the oft heard noisy startup concerns
2) Typ LESS media area than competition.

Other than that - No outstanding engineering issues. "paper" encaps are not an issue whatsoever. Now if it had a paper centertube

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Things like "zero failure rate", are interesting. "Zero failure rate", in the 15 years of production, or in their random testing for the last 15 years? Big difference.

Good call.

 

[beast3300]

Originally Posted By: Audioquest
For me, it's about VALUE. I don't believe a Fram's construction is on par with competitors filters that sell at the same or lower prices. Therefore, the Fram represents less value for me.

Fram can be lumped in with Bose speakers and Monster cables.


Nicely put!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HyundaiGuy]

Originally Posted By: Audioquest

Fram can be lumped in with Bose speakers and Monster cables.


The OP better hope that Fram isn't as sue happy as Bose or Monster Cable. Bose went after Consumer Reports some years ago after a negative assessment of the 901. Monster Cable goes after nearly any company that uses the name "monster" in a product name. It's like Noel Lee, Monster's President, thinks he invented the word.

 

[Audioquest]

Originally Posted By: HyundaiGuy
Originally Posted By: Audioquest

Fram can be lumped in with Bose speakers and Monster cables.


The OP better hope that Fram isn't as sue happy as Bose or Monster Cable. Bose went after Consumer Reports some years ago after a negative assessment of the 901. Monster Cable goes after nearly any company that uses the name "monster" in a product name. It's like Noel Lee, Monster's President, thinks he invented the word.


Umm, if that was the case, I think Fram would have shut down this website and the other 5000 sites out there that dis their oil filters. Noel Lee tried to go after Blue Jeans Cable as well, but a beautifully worded letter by their president ended that debacle even before it started.

 

[goodtimes]

The extended guard has been in production only since 1995? I thought it was a lot longer. I think the "engineers" spiel was about right, except the endcaps have to be glued and that may be a weaker point as "fiber" flexes. The no end cap designs seem the smartest and least costly to produce, to me. I thought it was good he explained why the extended g has steel end plates.

What is the problem with someone defending their co. or posting what they think?

 

[mpvue]

the only people that should bash fram are the ones with FIRSTHAND BAD EXPERIENCE with them.
otherwise, it's all conjecture and a waste of time.
I've read about all kinds of people slamming them, but have never had a problem w/ the orange can. I actually resent the fact that it affected my buying decision last time I had to buy a filter, although I have no proof nor any reason to suspect the filter is a problem.
starting a honda CRX cult and and attempting to indoctrinate your disciples/minions with your personal opinion is irresponsible.

 

[Russell]

Mann cartridge/drop in filters for BMWs are all paper/fiber with no metal. Never had an issue. paper/fiber is more environmental correct-I assume.

 

[Autobahn88]

Welcome to the internet forum. Where many facts are misleading due to personal opinion. Take what you read on thenet with a grain of salt. Everyone is an "expert" on the net.

 

[Audioquest]

Originally Posted By: mpvue
the only people that should bash fram are the ones with FIRSTHAND BAD EXPERIENCE with them.
otherwise, it's all conjecture and a waste of time.
I've read about all kinds of people slamming them, but have never had a problem w/ the orange can. I actually resent the fact that it affected my buying decision last time I had to buy a filter, although I have no proof nor any reason to suspect the filter is a problem.
starting a honda CRX cult and and attempting to indoctrinate your disciples/minions with your personal opinion is irresponsible.


Easy buddy. No one is starting a "cult". I hardly think expressing one's opinion on a product and it's value in respect to competitor's products is irresponsible. Isn't that what Consumer Reports does everyday? Have you read half of the posts in the oil filter forum on this site? Harldy a rah-rah Fram affair. I think we've got another Fram employee here...

 

[Billy_D]

I don't use Fram filters, but I think Fram has a right to defend its products regardless of what you and I think. I think they need to present their side, and the members of your forum will make up their mind if Fram's argument is convincing.

 

[Hounds]

The post by Fram's representive seems entirely appropriate to me, FWIW.

 

[HyundaiGuy]

Originally Posted By: Hounds
The post by Fram's representive seems entirely appropriate to me, FWIW.


I agree. The thing that seems odd is that Fram apparently has people look for information on this on the web and try to "correct" it.

Seems silly when there are more than enough people that will buy Fram filters because of a price point or name recognition. People that don't care for their vehicles aren't here or on the OP's site. They buy whatever is in stock that fits.

The tour offer was cool. Wish I could go.

 

[goodtimes]

People on forums seem to form a notion, gather around it, and then pity the soul who comes into that forum and criticizes that notion. There is a notion about Craftsman ratchets (that they're no good) right now in the tool forum that I totally disagree with, but no way I am going in there and say it. I'll say it here instead, haha.

One more thing, wy don't you ask the Fram guy why the TG has a higher efficiency rating than the ext g? That always seems odd. He will probably say the ext g has longer life. So I trade longer life for less efficient filtering?

 

[Quest]

don't you just luv the internet now filled with all sorts of self-proclaimed armchair scientists who littered the internet with self-serving, unsubstantiated claims and subjective observations that serves no real purpose/adds value to the information already out there but to bombard the internet with more garbage.

Bless those poor souls who would feed on those information w/o filtering with logics and common-sense.

Equally seems odd (perhaps not) that the most liberal/open minded society tends to fall for most of these information. Makes you wonder what how valuable their education systems are.

My 2c's worth. While I'm not a big fan of Fram, I still use it on a regular basis w/ full confidence and satisfaction.

Q.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Audioquest

Wow, I didn't realize Fram was paying it's employees to troll websites and forum to seek out and destroy all negative posts about their products.


Hmmm....you have a funny definition of "trolling".

They're presenting their side of story, a story which frankly doesn't have much basis (that fiber end caps inherently bad). I'm not sure I see the problem?

 

[RF Overlord]

I'm a recovering FRAMaholic but honestly, the reason I don't use their oil filters any longer is that I can buy the factory-recommended filter, with a silicone ADBV, for less money (in the same stores) although even if the FL820S were the same money, I would still choose it over the orange can. The FRAM filter that I consider to be the "equal" of the Motorcraft is the TG, but it's way overpriced.

I do, however, feel qualified by actual bad experience to blast their fuel filters. I had 2 of them on different cars that rusted heavily, one to the point that it began leaking. These filters were not used under extraordinary circumstances, nor were they on the cars for a long time. The equivalent Motorcraft filter on another car, used in the exact same conditions, still looked almost new.

I have no issue with FRAM's air or transmission filters.

Returning to the point of this thread, I don't think that was trolling, either. The poster was polite and presented his side of the debate.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I would take him up on the offer and tour the factory. If you can't make it let me know and I will go in your place and do a full write-up for BITOG...



I would do the same! Imagine what one could learn in a tour like that. The letter from the guy actually has truth in it and it does not seem hostile at all. For the record, I am no Fram fan and would reuse and old filter before putting on an orange can HOWEVER - I do realize they make a good filter with the XG series.

 

[Sayjac]

Nickname/display name 'motorking', he scours the internets looking for negative comments regarding Fram and the orange can. He then preaches 'the word' according to Fram/Honeywell, and seeks to right any perceived injustices. IIRC, he may have posted similar here under that display name or another.

He does seem to have a tendency to embellish the facts a tad though. Most recently one of his posts was posted here stating the XG had the highest holding capacity of any filter. Actually, according to their respective websites the BoschDP is 29g vs 26g for the XG. The XG however is a well made filter.

In this post he claims " The least expensive Fram filter is 94% efficient using ISO test standard 4548-12. This means it removes 94% of dirt particles in the 10-20 micron size the first time your oil passes through the filter."

The Fram website says orange can efficiency @ 95% arrived at by: "Honeywell testing of filter efficiency and capacity of models equivalent to PH8A, 3387A and 6607 under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns. So same ISO standard but not 10-20um claimed in the post. Also he says a single pass which is higher than the multipass spec many filters use. If it's, 10-20um it's not a published spec.

Then he says of the XG "It is the ONLY filter that has a wriiten guarantee for 10k oil chages when used with synthetic oil." However, the Fram site says "Follow recommended change intervals as noted in your vehicle's owner's manual. 10,000-mile change interval under normal driving conditions using fully synthetic motor oil." So it's guaranteed only if the car manufacturer says 10k is the recommended OCI, using syn oil.

Also said, "The Super Tech filter is around 80% efficient in comparison." Afaik, Champ/ST claims a 94% efficiency rating.

And posts always seems to mention Honeywell now making Honda and Subaru OEM's, as the decisive factor.

Also saw on a recent post on another message board where he doesn't hold Bitog in the highest regard. Surprise. Nor the minmopar oil filter site.

All that aside, especially as related to the orange can, there are better constructed more efficient filters that can be obtained for less money.