I have 105 000 km on My Civic 2003 on 5w20 and the engine is running like new...
My Honda Purchase & Oil Viscosity Use Question.
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I think this is essentially true when people are arguing that one oil is better than another based on it providing 5 ppm of iron instead of 7 ppm. At that point they're probably reading into it too much.
However, I think it is safe to say that "good" UOAs do in fact indicate good oil performance. ie, if there was any problem with 5W-20 oil, we wouldn't see boatloads of UOAs with perfectly good wear numbers. To suggest otherwise would be acting in the exact manner which you claim to disapprove!
I highly doubt these guys are oil experts. Folks like Terry have probably forgotten more than they know. Not knocking 'em, but they're in the business of selling and repairing cars, not designing oil.
Agreed
My 2000 4.8 does not..
My Moms 2002 4.8 does not..
My co-workers new 2006 5.3 does not..
All state 5w-30 or 10w-30 if above 0 is approved in the manuals.. (I've read all three on this subject.)
Bill
quote:
And, if I were to name these people they said they would have to deny our conversation ever occurred.
Translation:
"If you ask me to put any of what I've just fed to you in writing, I'll need surgery to correct the gut that I'll burst laughing at you."
Car dealers make me want to
And, if I were to name these people they said they would have to deny our conversation ever occurred.
Translation:
"If you ask me to put any of what I've just fed to you in writing, I'll need surgery to correct the gut that I'll burst laughing at you."
Car dealers make me want to
Honda is one of the most innovative makers of cars in the world. And their track record over the years speaks for itself. I know about CAFE requirements and that may be a consideration sure, but these engineers design, build and test their engines under normal conditions and those we seldom encounter. If they say 5w20 works, it works (and there is a lot of evidence to back it up).
I have a new Honda Ridgeline truck and I will change oil by the OLM because that makes sense whereas an arbitrary, set X number of miles or months does not. Modern motors and better oil has made the 3000 mile/3 month oil change thing obsolete (under normal driving conditions). So too the thinking that "thicker is better" when it comes to oils.
My Ridgeline calls for 5w20 but it would work just fine using 5w30, 10w30 or herbal tea - they are bullet proof. So why not give the enigeers some credit and do what they suggest? No company, especially Honda, is going to recommend an oil for CAFE only with no regard as to how it will perform in their vehicles.
Under normal driving conditions, the Honda will run for as long as you plan on keeping it if you go by the OLM, use Havoline 5w20 (or any other major brand 5w20, be it synthetic or dino). You want extra insurance? Fine, use FP60 and LC20 and don't worry about a thing.
I have a new Honda Ridgeline truck and I will change oil by the OLM because that makes sense whereas an arbitrary, set X number of miles or months does not. Modern motors and better oil has made the 3000 mile/3 month oil change thing obsolete (under normal driving conditions). So too the thinking that "thicker is better" when it comes to oils.
My Ridgeline calls for 5w20 but it would work just fine using 5w30, 10w30 or herbal tea - they are bullet proof. So why not give the enigeers some credit and do what they suggest? No company, especially Honda, is going to recommend an oil for CAFE only with no regard as to how it will perform in their vehicles.
Under normal driving conditions, the Honda will run for as long as you plan on keeping it if you go by the OLM, use Havoline 5w20 (or any other major brand 5w20, be it synthetic or dino). You want extra insurance? Fine, use FP60 and LC20 and don't worry about a thing.
As soon as I hear from them I will.
If you've spent anytime in a corporate manufacturing environment you'd know that for products meant for the general public, what's in the manual has little to no relation to what the actual engineer would say.
What nobody has answered, nor can answer: if CAFE isn't the sole guidance for the recomendation, why are 5w20s only speced in the US?
Wavinwayne: Where did you find the puke graemlin? I love it and would attach it to every memo I send out.
i dont think honda has cafe hits like the big 3 do. honda doesnt really put out any gas guzzling v8 heavy rwd rusdt laiden cars.
i really think the 5w20 is not cafe based.
i really think the 5w20 is not cafe based.
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Master ACiD,
They TOLD me the 5W-20 is a CAFE matter. They also told me the 5/10W-30, winter, and 5W-40 summer is just fine in that car. They know. They service these cars all the time. I'm not the only one that had concern about this.
All you guys who know far less about it than the ones I discussed this with at the Dealer are in no position to influence my dicision on this.
For those of you who should be in the know, you should be aware that engineering is not the 'end all' with what's in the showroom.
This is enough of this topic for me. You've all had your say and I've seen nothing substantial offered. The thinking that this decision was made by engineering is inexcusable. They didn't tell that the engine is engineered differently. They told me this a CAFE thing. I'm seeing on Edmunds.com that Honda is coming out with increasingly bigger, heavier cars, some of which aren't outstanding in fuel consumption. Sure, CAFE is becoming of interest to them.
I see nothing personal in this at all. I've seen that in some of the responses to my post. Really, I have NO concern over which oil you use in your cars. None whatsoever. I do observe a push for the thin oils here that goes far beyond what some manufacturers do for CAFE. It would be appropriate for each of you to be unconcerned about my talk with those at the dealership and how they gave me their assurances about what I want to use in the Honda just purchased.
In fact, I am so impressed that I'm meeting the dealer again in less than two hours to discuss buying another new Honda from them.
They TOLD me the 5W-20 is a CAFE matter. They also told me the 5/10W-30, winter, and 5W-40 summer is just fine in that car. They know. They service these cars all the time. I'm not the only one that had concern about this.
All you guys who know far less about it than the ones I discussed this with at the Dealer are in no position to influence my dicision on this.
For those of you who should be in the know, you should be aware that engineering is not the 'end all' with what's in the showroom.
This is enough of this topic for me. You've all had your say and I've seen nothing substantial offered. The thinking that this decision was made by engineering is inexcusable. They didn't tell that the engine is engineered differently. They told me this a CAFE thing. I'm seeing on Edmunds.com that Honda is coming out with increasingly bigger, heavier cars, some of which aren't outstanding in fuel consumption. Sure, CAFE is becoming of interest to them.
I see nothing personal in this at all. I've seen that in some of the responses to my post. Really, I have NO concern over which oil you use in your cars. None whatsoever. I do observe a push for the thin oils here that goes far beyond what some manufacturers do for CAFE. It would be appropriate for each of you to be unconcerned about my talk with those at the dealership and how they gave me their assurances about what I want to use in the Honda just purchased.
In fact, I am so impressed that I'm meeting the dealer again in less than two hours to discuss buying another new Honda from them.
For the 2006 Civic sedan in Japan, Honda recommends:
0W20, 5W30, 10W30, 5W40
and right by 0W20, there's a star, which denotes "use 0W20 for best fuel economy"
So I guess most of you guys are correct, they don't spec 5W20 in Japah, but 0W20....
0W20, 5W30, 10W30, 5W40
and right by 0W20, there's a star, which denotes "use 0W20 for best fuel economy"
So I guess most of you guys are correct, they don't spec 5W20 in Japah, but 0W20....
Good luck
I'm sure your car will be fine, however you choose to proceed.
For future reference, don't be suprised or miffed if you start a thread on a somewhat controversial topic and find that the replies are of a different opinion from yours!
jeff
For future reference, don't be suprised or miffed if you start a thread on a somewhat controversial topic and find that the replies are of a different opinion from yours!
jeff
Amen, I agree, you'll be fine. But you came in here and made a controversial statement, invited comment, and then got PO'd when you actually got some. Then you insult everyone telling us we have no idea what we are talking about compared to Joe Schmoe the salesman whose telling you anything you want to hear to get your money along with Billy Bob the service guy who he's giving a wink to.
I could care, less, I've got 5W30 in mine right now, which I have done once or twice before. But I'm not telling everyone else they are nuts, either.
I'd invite you to go and ask Honda owners over at a Honda webforum what they think about their 5W20 experiences. To date, I haven't seen anyone complaining on the one I visit ocassionally www.hondasuv.com about losing an engine to 5W20.
I could care, less, I've got 5W30 in mine right now, which I have done once or twice before. But I'm not telling everyone else they are nuts, either.
I'd invite you to go and ask Honda owners over at a Honda webforum what they think about their 5W20 experiences. To date, I haven't seen anyone complaining on the one I visit ocassionally www.hondasuv.com about losing an engine to 5W20.
AcuraZine.com
krholm, if I'm not mistaken, you've used Terry's services before, correct? Why don't you ask him for his expert opinion, as he knows much more about oil and this subject than any of us here.
quote:
Wavinwayne: Where did you find the puke graemlin? I love it and would attach it to every memo I send out.
Right click on the little puker & save the .gif file to your hard drive. Feel free to use it at will.
Wavinwayne: Where did you find the puke graemlin? I love it and would attach it to every memo I send out.
Right click on the little puker & save the .gif file to your hard drive. Feel free to use it at will.
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bkrell,
"and then got PO'd when you actually got some."
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No, not really. No one deserves that I be "PO'd" just because they don't agree with me and the dealer's service department manager and another technician they wanted in on this. It really doesn't matter. This is a fun forum. Lighten up a bit.
And, as far as what the members of hondasuv.com use in their autos, that's fine with me.
I'm going to seek out a Xw-30 that meets ACEA A3 for my use. I like the higher HTHS. Most of the 30wts. don't meet that.
Michael, Yes, I use Terry's services. I've seen his brief comment on this subject. You can look it up. He doesn't make a big deal out of it. He's well above that. There are several other CLS members of this forum that stay out of these discussions.
I did go back to that dealer today and purchased a 2nd new 2006 Honda Civic. Now I have two new ones. And, I can use in them what I want to.
Now, do I trust this dealer and its service department? You bet!!! They shot straight with me.
[ December 29, 2005, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: krholm ]
"and then got PO'd when you actually got some."
------------
No, not really. No one deserves that I be "PO'd" just because they don't agree with me and the dealer's service department manager and another technician they wanted in on this. It really doesn't matter. This is a fun forum. Lighten up a bit.
And, as far as what the members of hondasuv.com use in their autos, that's fine with me.
I'm going to seek out a Xw-30 that meets ACEA A3 for my use. I like the higher HTHS. Most of the 30wts. don't meet that.
Michael, Yes, I use Terry's services. I've seen his brief comment on this subject. You can look it up. He doesn't make a big deal out of it. He's well above that. There are several other CLS members of this forum that stay out of these discussions.
I did go back to that dealer today and purchased a 2nd new 2006 Honda Civic. Now I have two new ones. And, I can use in them what I want to.
Now, do I trust this dealer and its service department? You bet!!! They shot straight with me.
[ December 29, 2005, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: krholm ]
Krholm,
Try sending Terry an e-mail...I think he can explain it in more detail to you as you were a customer of his.
To contribute to this 20wt discussion...the weight business doesn't really bother me that much.
However, I wouldn't mind using any oil that has a kinetic viscosity between 9-11cst...but nothing higher than 11cst, I don't care for thick oils either. :tongue: What I find interesting is that a 8.8cst 5w-20 syn such as M1 can have a HT/HS of 2.62cp, while the M1 EP 10w-30, testing out at 10.5cst, can have an HT/HS of 3.21cp. What a big difference for such as a small difference in viscosity.
As well as 20wts may work, I'm equally guilty of enjoying the usage of higher viscosity oils (kinetic and HT/HS) in hopes of having a thicker oil flim, even though 5w-20s may be adequate.
Since price is important (gosh I'm such a cheapskate that price owns everything), why should I pay Kragen $5.99/qt for the 9.5TBN M1 5w-20 when I can buy a 12TBN M1 EP 10w-30 at Walmart for $26 a per 5qt jug?
Nevertheless, congrats on the new cars. Use Redline 5w-30 (HT/HS of 3.8cp, 10.9cst) or M1 EP 10w-30 to satisfy your desires of thicker oil.
[ December 29, 2005, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Michael Wan ]
Try sending Terry an e-mail...I think he can explain it in more detail to you as you were a customer of his.
To contribute to this 20wt discussion...the weight business doesn't really bother me that much.
However, I wouldn't mind using any oil that has a kinetic viscosity between 9-11cst...but nothing higher than 11cst, I don't care for thick oils either. :tongue: What I find interesting is that a 8.8cst 5w-20 syn such as M1 can have a HT/HS of 2.62cp, while the M1 EP 10w-30, testing out at 10.5cst, can have an HT/HS of 3.21cp. What a big difference for such as a small difference in viscosity.
As well as 20wts may work, I'm equally guilty of enjoying the usage of higher viscosity oils (kinetic and HT/HS) in hopes of having a thicker oil flim, even though 5w-20s may be adequate.
Since price is important (gosh I'm such a cheapskate that price owns everything), why should I pay Kragen $5.99/qt for the 9.5TBN M1 5w-20 when I can buy a 12TBN M1 EP 10w-30 at Walmart for $26 a per 5qt jug?
Nevertheless, congrats on the new cars. Use Redline 5w-30 (HT/HS of 3.8cp, 10.9cst) or M1 EP 10w-30 to satisfy your desires of thicker oil.
[ December 29, 2005, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: Michael Wan ]
All I can add is that if my Honda called for 20 weight, I'd use it...in winter.
Someting like Motorcraft 5w-20 in winter and Motorcraft 5w-30 in summer.
Someting like Motorcraft 5w-20 in winter and Motorcraft 5w-30 in summer.
As soon as Amsoil comes out with a long-drain xW-20, I'll run it in my Hondas. In the mean time, I'll probably use their 0W-30.
For me the convenience of annual oil/filter changes is the key.
It is a good point however, that we are the only country that uses 5W-20. Either we're out on the cutting edge or we're making a CAFE compromise.
For me the convenience of annual oil/filter changes is the key.
It is a good point however, that we are the only country that uses 5W-20. Either we're out on the cutting edge or we're making a CAFE compromise.
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