My Honda Purchase & Oil Viscosity Use Question.

[radiometer]

Today I purchased a new 2006 Honda Civic LX 1.8 S 4cyl. 4A. During the process I told the dealer rep that I have a serious question about the 5W-20 oil that is being recommended for their cars. This is not a new subject to him. He says it comes up. He told me that although he knows the answer he is supposed push the 5W-20 for CAFE purposes, but that he would let the service manager go over this with me. He put me with the service manager and a man they referred to as a well studied tech in these matters. I explained that I do NOT want to use the thin oil but that I also want to keep my warranty safe. They had heard this before, also. They suggested that it is fine to use 5/10W-30 in the winter and went on to say that in our rather warm summers a 5W-40 will be a good choice.

These gentlemen were very attentive to my concerns about warranty questions and assured me that using the 5/10W-30 in winter and 5W-40 in summer will absolutely in no way be detrimental to this engine, but they are convinced my way is a good maintenance program. They assured me that if the engine should need any service under warranty that the oil is not an issue unless something is found in the oil that caused the problem and the viscosities under discussion are not an issue. They repeated: To deny warranty because of the oil used they would HAVE to be able to show that something about the oil caused the problem, and again, the viscosities under discussion is no problem. The service manager told me he sees me as the type of person that will read every bit of the manual and will make every effort to maintain the car well.

Of course, the factory fill is a 5W-20. I'm going to run it a few thousand and then I'll put in a 5 or a 10W-30 and see what the comparison might be. I'm usually not impressed with dealers, but I came away from this one with a very good feeling. There have been Hondas in my family although this is my first one. The excellent long service life of the Hondas of relatives show me this is a very safe purchase to make.

And, if I were to name these people they said they would have to deny our conversation ever occurred. I came away with a very good feeling.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Congrats, you found a dealer who understands Magnusson Moss. Congrats on the civic , that's a nice car.

 

[greenjp]

FWIW there's a boatload of UOAs of xW-20 oils on this site, that seem to have proven concerns such as yours unwarranted.

jeff

 

[radiometer]

Greenjp,

I mentioned to them that I do UOAs on my cars. They responded with the statement that UOAs are not conclusive in comparing wear between the various oils. I've read comments on this forum that Dave of Redline makes the same statement and no one has challenged his position on that.

The dealer's people I was in conversation with are well aware of the use of UOAs. They agreed with me that these tests are useful in finding serious problems, but that they are not an accurate means of determining very minute levels of wear. I'm not the expert. They are.

I have been well aware that although many of us enjoy doing UOAs that they are not the 'end all' as some think. Although they don't tell us everything we'd like to know I'll continue doing them. That's just me. I find it interesting to do them and have Terry Dyson give his excellent analysis.

My suggestion is: You use what you want to in your vehicles. I'll use what I want in mine, especially, with the assurance I have as stated in my post.

[ December 28, 2005, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: krholm ]

 

[AndyH]

quote:

---

Originally posted by krholm:
And, if I were to name these people they said they would have to deny our conversation ever occurred.

---

Why on earth would they do that? I think if I were you I'd get it in writing that 5w-30, 10w-30 and 5w-40 are acceptable and will not cause warranty issues. It's one thing to tell you that verbally, it's another to actually put it to paper and sign their name to it.

 

[Schmoe]

...I came away with a very good feeling....
What? Warm fuzzy? If the reps told you that they would DENY that they even spoke to you...don't know about you, but to me, that would discredit every single thing they said. If they don't have the "balls" to stand up and take responsibility for what they told you, what makes you think what they are telling you is the gospel? Hogwash to me.

 

[farrarfan1]

I agree with AndyH and Schmoe. If they said that I wouldn't trust that dealership as far as I can dropkick an armored car.

 

[bkrell]

I understand your concerns over 5W20, but who were these people who told you not to trust UOAs? Car salesmen? I agree w/ the previous poster, if they are that certain, they should make sure to back up what they tell you in writing. UOA's may not be the end all, but I trust them more than someone whose trying to sell me a car.

For what it's worth, I have an 02 CR-V w/ around 65k miles and 0w20 and 5w20 seem to have worked out fine so far. That's been in Louisiana heat and a variety of driving conitions.

 

[Pablo]

Interesting, but ignoring the MULTITUDE of near perfect UOA's (hard to do!) - 5W-20's are not causing any problems in Honda (or other engines).

I fail to see that this is anything more than a talking point. It's really cool that you can have this level of conversation with your dealer. My closest Honda dealer apparently has buttocks where their ears are attached.

For the record, I also think a good 5W-40 will work fine in a warm climate area, but so will a 5W-30!

 

[Johnny]

"buttocks where their ears are attached"

 

[Johnny]

krholm:

I did not mean to make lite of your concerns. I have two Honda's and both are doing great on Pennzoil Platinum 5W20. I'm thinking about getting a 06 Civic for my retirement present. Nice little cars.

 

[olefam]

Having spoken to Honda America about a variety of hypothetical warranty issues for my '05 CR-V, I must join with those who say to be very, very cautious about verbal claims made by anyone.
On the other hand, Honda's are very nice cars and seem to be reasonably well made. Have you considered using a synthetic such as M1 5w-20 to allay any fears you may have about thermal breakdown in your oil? Honda will not void your new car warranty if you chose to use a synthetic, as long as it meets the specs they establish.
Glen

 

[radiometer]

I knew this one would rankle some feathers but that is completely OK with me. I just don't mind.

 

[radiometer]

olefam,

No. I will not use 5W-20, even in synthetic. To me there simply hasn't been sufficient evidence that over the very long term that this is good.

 

[bkrell]

What's your evidence that it's bad? 20 weight oil has been around a few years now. In the same time, Toyota, Chrysler, Saab, and VW have had tons of oil related engine problems. Everyone knows about it. I think if 20 weight oil were causing problems, you'd hear more than an anecdote here or there. It'd be plastered all over BITOG just like the sludge problems w/ the aformentioned cars.

 

[Johnny]

GM, Toyota, and VW are doing some testing with 5W20's now. It won't be long before more are recommending it. Chrysler already does. If AHASS can run it in his Ferrari you can bet it will work in your new Civic. But as you say, to each his own. Good luck.

 

[buster]

quote:

---

I think this is essentially true when people are arguing that one oil is better than another based on it providing 5 ppm of iron instead of 7 ppm. At that point they're probably reading into it too much.

However, I think it is safe to say that "good" UOAs do in fact indicate good oil performance. ie, if there was any problem with 5W-20 oil, we wouldn't see boatloads of UOAs with perfectly good wear numbers. To suggest otherwise would be acting in the exact manner which you claim to disapprove!

---

I guess this argument will never go away. I think the above comments are 100% correct. I would NEVER use a 40wt in a Honda or car that calls for a 20wt. I would and am considering a 30wt (thin one) but thats it.

Do your own homework and reach your own conclusion. Don't look for the answers you WANT to hear, be objective. My service manager told me that they are now getting Honda's with well over 150k miles of using nothing but 5w-20's and they run like new. His word against your word.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

GM

---

Not from what I've been told.

 

[Johnny]

Michael: Don't know who told you what, but GM started testing 5W20's before Ford did. It does not work real well in their big V8's or their push rod v6's, but they are having good results in some of the smaller engines. The Saturn SUV recommends it, but I guess we can thank Honda for that. They will come around sooner or later.

 

[speedtc]

THe 4.8, and 5.3 GM truck motors all recommend 5w20.