Motor oil + water + heat

[DINO_NO]

"The Lamborghini Murcielago oil only warms up to 88 C when driving around town or on the highway at 90 MPH. "
maybe because it has 10 radiators?

"The Enzo Ferrari, using 30 wt. oil, only gets up to 76 C under the same conditions and it takes 30 minutes to get there" where did you get this proof?

 

[Shannow]

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where did you get this proof?

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http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...part=1&vc=1

 

[AEHaas]

The gauges within the instrument panel.

aehaas

 

[like a rock]

Hey dino no- What does your sludged pontiac guages read at highway speed?

 

[simple_gifts]

 

[Turbodriven]

JAG thanks for the test. What makes things interesting is that you only used water and the results were not good, with the internal combustion process acids are produced that go along with that water into the sump. It would be interesting to see a similar test with acids included...

 

[GMorg]

Thanks for sharing JAG...

For those that want a direct link to th QuakerState bulletin, give this a try.

http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Bulletin/QuakerState/General/pdf/g07.pdf

 

[JAG]

Previously, I put some vinegar (acidic water) in oil and heated it. It was disgusting. Made stinky mayonaise out of the oil. I couldn't get it over about 100C because the vinegar would start exploding (boiling) out of the unsealed cups. It was taking so long for it to boil off that I just stopped the test before all the vinegar was gone. That's why I went with a sealed container in this water/oil test.

 

[troberts]

JAG, yes, thanks for the tests. And for the encouragement re my oci. But, I've been wondering since the thread appeared what kind of rig you have to conduct these tests. I mean, it sounds.... well, dangerous!!! Big box? Krypton safety glasses?

 

[JAG]

I use an upside down clothes iron as the heating element and do it outside. I used to use an old toaster oven as the heating equipment but did so many tests with it that I wore it out. LoL. If I want insane temps, I use a blow torch but temperature consistency and safety of that are bothersome. I have metal cups, ceramic cups, and recently acquired pipe fittings as mentioned earlier. Thermocouple, digital scale and syringe are also part of my equipment.

 

[427Z06]

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Starting temperature was 34°F after being parked overnight.
10 second warmup
9:25am 1 mile 39°F oil 111°F coolant (kept rpms below 1500)
9:27am 2 miles 64°F oil 147°F coolant
9:28am 3 miles 86°F oil 171°F coolant … …

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Where is the oil temperature measured … in the pan? The oil is going to reach much higher temps as it circulates around the engine.

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During a normal drive the average engine is going to circulate roughly 4 gallons of oil per minute. If most of the oil was getting that hot in the engine, you'd see it in the pan too.

 

[Turbodriven]

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I use an upside down clothes iron as the heating element and do it outside. I used to use an old toaster oven as the heating equipment but did so many tests with it that I wore it out. LoL. If I want insane temps, I use a blow torch but temperature consistency and safety of that are bothersome. I have metal cups, ceramic cups, and recently acquired pipe fittings as mentioned earlier. Thermocouple, digital scale and syringe are also part of my equipment.

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I can just picture it...like a mad scientist with a blow torch in one hand and a toaster cooking oil in front of him.....does your neighbour think you are a nutter?

I read once that for every litre of fuel burnt a litre of water (and acids) is produced as a by-product...judging by the amount of vapor that comes out the exhaust on cold mornings that seems about right.

 

[JAG]

The neighbors don't know what I'm up to on my porch, fortunately. Hopefully they think I'm just smoking cigarettes!
I too read that for x amt of fuel burnt, x amount of water is produced. Chemistry is strange when thought of with only common sense. React air with stinky toxic gasoline and get lots of water. Weird!

 

[Gary Allan]

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not for all cars, can i get a link to that..?

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You're correct, DINO_NO ..if you have a coolantil heat exchanger ..like most VW/AUDI engines ..you'll shorten it to about 9 miles/10 minutes (+/-). This is not the case with the vast majority of engines out there. Even with the Audi/VW setup the engine isn't fully warmed until the 15-20 minute (+/-) range ..but the oil gets boosted in temp in a much shorter time.

You're not the first one to have "solid as concrete" assumptions shattered like fragile crystal here, pal.

Although I related emulsified deposits with short trip usage, I reasoned that it was the moisture drawn in by the PCV system ..and that short cycling never got to high enough temp to purge the moisture that condensed as the somewhat heated air in the crankcase cooled ..and drew in more outside air as it contracted after shut off.

Hey, it worked in my head at the time.


(PSST! Kinda tread lightly when declaring stuff here - unless you don't mind being

when you're mistaken - try this next time "Whoa! I was under the impression that blablablabla - is this not true

Not your style? Me neither

"ouch"

)

 

[Doc8404]

dude, they probably think you're cooking meth on the porch!
try to limit your visitor activity!

 

[Drivebelt]

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Starting temperature was 34°F after being parked overnight.
10 second warmup
9:25am 1 mile 39°F oil 111°F coolant (kept rpms below 1500)
9:27am 2 miles 64°F oil 147°F coolant
9:28am 3 miles 86°F oil 171°F coolant … …

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Where is the oil temperature measured … in the pan? The oil is going to reach much higher temps as it circulates around the engine.

---

During a normal drive the average engine is going to circulate roughly 4 gallons of oil per minute. If most of the oil was getting that hot in the engine, you'd see it in the pan too.

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Oil picks up heat in the engine and loses heat in the pan. So the oil is going to be hotter as it passes over the various hot (and hotter) parts of the engine -- like the bearings, pistons, rings and valves. The only question I see is how much hotter the oil reaches when passing over these various hot spots in the engine as compared to the temperature measured in the pan.

 

[Gary Allan]

The pan is about the only common point to measure oil temp. I measure it from the filter point ...which should be the same, or so I reason. It's an index. You can measure (if you could measure) at various points and get all kinds of readings. The sump is the common point and registers your "insult reserve" of the total oil mass. There is obviously some hotter point in the engine maintaining it at the sump temp. When that temp stabilizes ..you've got your continuous thermal exchange occurring.

It would be nice to have two or three data points to figure stuff from ..but knowing your sump temp and reading a UOA should tell you if viscosity issues ..or oxidation issues .. are out of control with your current oil cooling method (even if you have none at the moment).

 

[427Z06]

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Starting temperature was 34°F after being parked overnight.
10 second warmup
9:25am 1 mile 39°F oil 111°F coolant (kept rpms below 1500)
9:27am 2 miles 64°F oil 147°F coolant
9:28am 3 miles 86°F oil 171°F coolant … …

---

Where is the oil temperature measured … in the pan? The oil is going to reach much higher temps as it circulates around the engine.

---

During a normal drive the average engine is going to circulate roughly 4 gallons of oil per minute. If most of the oil was getting that hot in the engine, you'd see it in the pan too.

---

Oil picks up heat in the engine and loses heat in the pan. So the oil is going to be hotter as it passes over the various hot (and hotter) parts of the engine -- like the bearings, pistons, rings and valves. The only question I see is how much hotter the oil reaches when passing over these various hot spots in the engine as compared to the temperature measured in the pan.

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But a relatively small percentage is going to make it to the hotter parts of the engine like the rings, piston ring lands, valve stems. It should be obvious that if a large percentage made it to those hotter areas, the oil in the pan would heat up a lot more quickly than it does in reality.

 

[pp_rp]

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The gauges within the instrument panel.

SWEEEET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

aehaas

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