Moly- Engine Oil Applications
- Thread starter buster
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Molybdenum is applicable in nearly every engine. Engine oils that don't have molybdenum perform worse than others with molybdenum.
So higher moly content is especially beneficial at preventing startup wear, correct?
But it doesn't explain the high organic moly concentrations of 600 to 1,000 ppm used by RL, Motul 300V and the Japanese OEMs.
In particular the organic moly compounds that's in the Adeka Sakura Lube used by the Japanese oil companies OEMs including the US EOM made Toyota Brand 0W-20, contain about 700 ppm of moly. They claim an average fuel economy savings of 1.7% with the use of the additive alone with a 700 ppm concentration.
See below:
http://www.adk.co.jp/en/chemical/pickup/lib/pickup01.html
In particular the organic moly compounds that's in the Adeka Sakura Lube used by the Japanese oil companies OEMs including the US EOM made Toyota Brand 0W-20, contain about 700 ppm of moly. They claim an average fuel economy savings of 1.7% with the use of the additive alone with a 700 ppm concentration.
See below:
http://www.adk.co.jp/en/chemical/pickup/lib/pickup01.html
Originally Posted By: buster
Page 9 is interesting. 75 ppm of Moly gives you the same final friction coefficient as 200ppm, the only difference being the slower rate of activation for the 75 ppm.
That graph(page 8)seems to show the 200ppm moly oil starting to protect more at a lower temperature (90°C) when compared to the 75ppm oil. The 75ppm moly oil only starts to kick in at a similar protection level at 110°C. Then at 140°C both blends appear to offer similar levels of protection.
From this it would seem that short tripper vehicles would benefit the most from the higher moly oil.
Page 9 is interesting. 75 ppm of Moly gives you the same final friction coefficient as 200ppm, the only difference being the slower rate of activation for the 75 ppm.
That graph(page 8)seems to show the 200ppm moly oil starting to protect more at a lower temperature (90°C) when compared to the 75ppm oil. The 75ppm moly oil only starts to kick in at a similar protection level at 110°C. Then at 140°C both blends appear to offer similar levels of protection.
From this it would seem that short tripper vehicles would benefit the most from the higher moly oil.
140C is about 280F ,with regular daily driving, does the avg oil even get that hot? I dont have an actual temp guage just typical GM 100-260 coolant temp. It dosen't look like that form of moly even kicks-in below that 280F point or am I not decifering this correctly?
The section on unconventional materials was very interesting. DLC is becoming more common place in the gun industry and industry in general. The fact that ZDDP-Mo provide some AW to this very hard material is new information.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
The section on unconventional materials was very interesting. DLC is becoming more common place in the gun industry and industry in general. The fact that ZDDP-Mo provide some AW to this very hard material is new information.
Yeah the DLC seems to be gaining some momentum.
The Valvoline guy wrote something on here about Moly. Moly over 500 ppm also helps oxidation stability. So the quantity will vary among different base oil blends I'd imagine.
Schaeffer's was one of the first to use Moly. Amsoil was one of the last.
The section on unconventional materials was very interesting. DLC is becoming more common place in the gun industry and industry in general. The fact that ZDDP-Mo provide some AW to this very hard material is new information.
Yeah the DLC seems to be gaining some momentum.
The Valvoline guy wrote something on here about Moly. Moly over 500 ppm also helps oxidation stability. So the quantity will vary among different base oil blends I'd imagine.
Schaeffer's was one of the first to use Moly. Amsoil was one of the last.
Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
140C is about 280F ,with regular daily driving, does the avg oil even get that hot? I dont have an actual temp guage just typical GM 100-260 coolant temp. It dosen't look like that form of moly even kicks-in below that 280F point or am I not decifering this correctly?
Although oil temps as a whole normally wouldn't rise much above 100°C, there are hotter and cooler places within the engine that the oil passes over. I'm assuming that the higher temperature places within the engine are where the benefits of a good moly coating are most needed.
140C is about 280F ,with regular daily driving, does the avg oil even get that hot? I dont have an actual temp guage just typical GM 100-260 coolant temp. It dosen't look like that form of moly even kicks-in below that 280F point or am I not decifering this correctly?
Although oil temps as a whole normally wouldn't rise much above 100°C, there are hotter and cooler places within the engine that the oil passes over. I'm assuming that the higher temperature places within the engine are where the benefits of a good moly coating are most needed.
Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
140C is about 280F ,with regular daily driving, does the avg oil even get that hot? I dont have an actual temp guage just typical GM 100-260 coolant temp. It dosen't look like that form of moly even kicks-in below that 280F point or am I not decifering this correctly?
The oil pan temps don't get that hot. But the oil in the bearings can get 100 deg hotter or more. big difference.
The average sump temp is what is considered the oil temp readi.ng, though.
140C is about 280F ,with regular daily driving, does the avg oil even get that hot? I dont have an actual temp guage just typical GM 100-260 coolant temp. It dosen't look like that form of moly even kicks-in below that 280F point or am I not decifering this correctly?
The oil pan temps don't get that hot. But the oil in the bearings can get 100 deg hotter or more. big difference.
The average sump temp is what is considered the oil temp readi.ng, though.
The reduction in fuel consumption claimed by Adeka may not be possible in real-world conditions since their claim is 1.7% reduction in fuel consumption when the oil contains 0.7% (7,000 ppm) additive. The Toyota and Honda 0W-20 oils contain about 700 ppm moly (not 7,000 ppm).
This may be a typo in the Adeka web site.
Ian
This may be a typo in the Adeka web site.
Ian
are the Lubro-Moly additive users seeing even a 1% sustained improvement in mpg?
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
The oil pan temps don't get that hot. But the oil in the bearings can get 100 deg hotter or more. big difference.
The average sump temp is what is considered the oil temp readi.ng, though.
In an typical auto with a 4 to 6 quart sump, the oil flow through the engine is pretty fast; a gallon in as little a 12 seconds under maximum flow coditions. Once stabilized at operating temp's the difference between oil in the hottest parts of the engine (the bearings) and bulk sump temps should be only 10 degrees or so.
Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
The oil pan temps don't get that hot. But the oil in the bearings can get 100 deg hotter or more. big difference.
The average sump temp is what is considered the oil temp readi.ng, though.
In an typical auto with a 4 to 6 quart sump, the oil flow through the engine is pretty fast; a gallon in as little a 12 seconds under maximum flow coditions. Once stabilized at operating temp's the difference between oil in the hottest parts of the engine (the bearings) and bulk sump temps should be only 10 degrees or so.
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