Mobil1 vs. Amsoil

[Jimi]

Good Day all,

As a newbie to this forum,
and one who has used both Amsoil and
Mobil 1 full synthetic 5w-30 oil,
.......a question, if I may be so bold:

If Amsoil can be run to 25000 miles or
one year before changing, why can't
Mobil 1 be run for the same extended drain?

I have checked Mobil's web site, & they
only claim that you may be able to go to
the upper mileage limits of what the owner's
manual states.

While Amsoil clearly states a 25000 drain.
(change the filter at 12500, & add a little.)

..........Whad up wi dis?

......Please pardon my ignorance.

Jimi

 

[rugerman1]

Not one BITOG Amsoil site sponsor recommends 25k oil change intervals without UOA's to guide them.Corporate Amsoil marketing doesn't float on BITOG.

 

[Rob Taggs]

In reply to Amsoil v.s. Mobil 1. I have used both products of various weights and have found that both are very high quality oils but, I did notice that Amsoil caused my vehicles to crank awhole lot harder in the winter months here in Kansas. For myself, I'am staying with Mobil motor oil. Amsoil looked like glue when I subjected to the freezer test while Mobil flowed like water. Look around the various racing teams and see what they use, it sure isn't Amsoil. Makes you wonder some does it not?

 

[pitzel]

Amsoil's raison d'etre revolves around the whole concept of extended oil drains, and Amsoil pushes the concept very heavily as their sole marketing tool. They take an oil that is pretty much equivilant in extended drain performance to Mobil1, and through the miracle of modern marketing, have found a way to sell it for a substantially higher price.

Mobil, on the other hand, with Mobil1, has decided to manufacture and market an oil that is almost universally available, and they have devoted considerable effort to having their product installed as a factory fill and factory recommendation. No car manufacturer in the world would recommend an oil supplied by a manufacturer that, as part of their marketing, encourages, if not urges operators to ignore car manufacturer recommendations.

Both Amsoil and Mobil enjoy extremely healthy profit margins on their products. As I have alluded to in another forum, even full synthetic products typically cost under $1/L to manufacture -- the rest is profit, and synthetic oils really don't require a lot in terms of additive packages either to drive up the price.

If you follow Amsoil's recommendations with respect to filter changes and oil analysis, there is no doubt in my mind that you would achieve similar results with Mobil1. Look in the UOA section for examples of extended drains with Amsoil and for examples of extended drains with Mobil-1. The wear numbers are pretty much identical within statistical significance, and in some ways, Mobil-1 maintained viscosity better. Amsoil wants you to buy their entire package -- their oil, their oil and air filters, their oil analysis services, their branded bypass filters -- and their marketing accordingly reflects their economic desire for you to buy a whole plethora of products from them. In reality, its not much better than companies who try and scare the bejezus out of you if you exceed the 3000 mile/3 month OCI, but its a well-used tactic in the retail oil industry.

 

[pitzel]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Taggs:
In reply to Amsoil v.s. Mobil 1. I have used both products of various weights and have found that both are very high quality oils but, I did notice that Amsoil caused my vehicles to crank awhole lot harder in the winter months here in Kansas. For myself, I'am staying with Mobil motor oil. Amsoil looked like glue when I subjected to the freezer test while Mobil flowed like water. Look around the various racing teams and see what they use, it sure isn't Amsoil. Makes you wonder some does it not?

---

What products are you comparing specifically, and what sort of drain intervals are you comparing? Its well known that the Amsoil products are subject to viscosity thickening when used in extended drain interval applications, however, very little attention has been paid in this forum to how extended drain intervals affect low-temperature performance of oils.

 

[Ironhorseman]

One thing that Amsoil offers that Mobil 1 doesn't, is a warranty against oil related engine failure using 25,000 mile oil change intervals (with the change of the filter halfway through the OCI and using their filters).
Has anyone heard of someone cashing in on that warranty? I'd be curious to hear about it.

 

[pitzel]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ironhorseman:
One thing that Amsoil offers that Mobil 1 doesn't, is a warranty against oil related engine failure using 25,000 mile oil change intervals (with the change of the filter halfway through the OCI and using their filters).
Has anyone heard of someone cashing in on that warranty? I'd be curious to hear about it.

---

If you read the fine print, oil analysis is also required to 'prove' that the interval is appropriate. So the only way to ever collect on the Amsoil warranty would be to have a freak lubrication failure that is undoubtedely not due to engine mechanical failure or operation of the engine outside of manufacturer-set limits, and a stack of good UOA's with the oil well within spec.

In other words, unless you believe in completely spontaneous oil break-down, the Amsoil warranty is as good as useless. A much more useful warranty is the couple thousand dollars I would have in my pocket by not using overpriced Amsoil-badged products, even if one does make the decision to extend OCI's using the methodology recommended by Amsoil.

[ November 07, 2004, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: pitzel ]

 

[Ironhorseman]

quote:

---

If you read the fine print, oil analysis is also required to 'prove' that the interval is appropriate.

---

Here is a link to a copy of the warranty. I don't see anything about using oil analysis to "prove" that the interval is appropriate. It only requires a sample of oil from the failed equipment and oil analysis results if available.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g1363.pdf

 

[olympic]

I have a couple Amsoil vs M1 UOA's posted here.

1) Mostly city driving
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001928#000000

2) All hiway driving.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001987#000000

The results are typical of what others have seen. Amsol produced better iron wear, but thickens way out of grade. M1 stays in grade but iron wear is higher.

FYI, I'll have a 25000 mile UOA on M1 around the end of November. It's the same run as posted in link #2 above. Unfortunately I don't have a 25k run with Amsoil to compare since I ended the test at 18k due to viscosity concerns(it was in the 50wt range!)

 

[mountravlr]

And then there's this M1 test in a V-8 Camaro, which was taken to 18,000 miles:
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

 

[ekpolk]

In my opinion, Mobil-1 and the non-XL-7500 Amsoil products have roughly the same potential for use at extended intervals. Early in the life of M1, Mobil pushed the 25,000 mile/1 year OCI, but ended backing off of that pretty quickly. Undoubtedly, the cost and hassle of claims being made against Mobil by the ignorant and uninformed who tried to use M1 for 25k without taking proper precautions, outweighed the benefit of advertising long OCIs.

Have a look at this UOA (CLICK HERE). This is from my wife's Sequoia, a constant short trip vehicle. Over six months and 4,200 miles, the wear numbers are near zero and the TBN is still 6.9. I think that this vehicle/oil combo could easily make it for a year, and probably 25k as well, especially with a fresh filter and top off half way through.

 

[RedWolf4000]

Although mobil 1 does not state a 25k oil change interval, it does say all over its official website that it showed amazing results in extended drains. To make a 25k oil drain interval claim is sort of crazy. Many cars have different OCI's, so how can a company claim 25k for all of them? Mobil plays it smart, and states that you can used M1 for the longest duration of time shown in the manual, that to me means the long trip schedule shown in your book.

Amsoil should state that OCI's are possible up to 25k, but it should reccommend a service book change or inspection. Alot of members on BITOG have found this reason to doubt amsoil even more.

M1 is available everywhere, its factory fill on many vehicles including all GM performance line, and some companies outside GM.

They are really both good choices, but in my opinion, because of shear cost effectivness with M1, its availability from walmart to a mom and pop shop, and its play it safe claims, with outstanding extended drain intervals, i think M1 is really the way to go. Good Luck.

 

[farfel]

Amsoil only recommends 25K for normal cars. Turbo-charged cars or trucks/suvs are derated to 2 or 3 times the manual's recommendation.


Mobil has done lots of 25,000 mile studies on their website, and shown the oil will last that long, but don't say anything about actually trying it.

Also, they DO recommend extended drains for commercial vehicles: Delvac 1 = "Long drain capability - Increased operating efficiency and lower overall cost." It's not unusual for a tractor-trailer to go 60,000+ miles on the same oil.


http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/Products_Services/Lubricants/PS_Testimonials.asp

 

[TheFuror]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheFuror:

quote:

---

Originally posted by pitzel:

What products are you comparing specifically, and what sort of drain intervals are you comparing? Its well known that the Amsoil products are subject to viscosity thickening when used in extended drain interval applications, however, very little attention has been paid in this forum to how extended drain intervals affect low-temperature performance of oils.

---

---

Sorry about that....

I realize that I am in the distinct minority for what I am about to say, but I have observed an incredible amount of energy expended on the question of extended oil changes, how far, what oil, and then spending time and money on UOA. Instead, it seems to me that a better model for vehicle longevity would be to use a high quality oil and change it frequently.

I see two basic positions here on BITOG: use cheap oil and change it a lot or use expensive oil and change it less often. Both seem to produce similar results on UOA.

However, it seems to me that if you use a high quality oil, and change it a lot, one will derive a greater benefit than employing one of the above positions.

I take this position not because I am afraid that my engine will implode if I extend the OCI. In this I am as "impressed" with Castrol's marketing schemes as I am with Amsoil's. Rather, it simply rings true to me that combining the best of both models equals the best long term results.

This is an empirical observation only. But it would make for interesting reading to see an UOA on high quality synthetics with a 3K mile change.

Bob W.

P.S. I can send one in if you like as I do the above method.

 

[pitzel]

quote:

---

This is an empirical observation only. But it would make for interesting reading to see an UOA on high quality synthetics with a 3K mile change.

---

There are plenty in the UOA section. In fact the UOA section is absolutely chock-full of people running Mobil1, Amsoil, and pretty much everything else under the sun for a mere 3000 or 5000 miles before draining. Unfortunately most here do not have the gonads to actually follow up on the recommendations given by the oil analysis and actually run their oil closer to its limits. This total lack of information really makes it difficult for people on this forum to assess the credibility of any of the extended drain interval claims made by the manufacturers.

 

[Jimi]

Many Thanks to everyone here for all the great
responses.

I was using Mobil 1 in my 2 vehicles,
a 2001 Pontiac Aztec, V6 engine, and my
97 Chevy S10 truck, V6 engine.

Both have high mileage from mainly highway use.

Then I became an Amsoil 'Preferred Customer',
and tried their 5w-30 oil which has nearly
the 12500 on each, now.
(Since Mobil makes no claims, other than,
'you can go to the upper limits of what
your owner's manual states.')

I didn't do an oil analysis, but the oil
appears nearly new on each.
.......I'll do the filter change soon,
add a little, & keep going.

I may go back to Mobil 1, as it appears from
these responses that it must be an oil of
equal quality, and, as a member of Sam's Club,
it can be obtained fairly reasonable.

Amsoil is quite expensive when the shipping &
handling costs are factored in, with the
preferred customer, etc.

I've also tried various syn oils in 2 stroke
equipment, and have found that, regardless
of brands, the full syn is sure the way to
go, as it doesn't burn off nearly as much as the
dino oil does.

Many thanks again for all the great responses,

Jimi

 

[pitzel]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jimi:
I was using Mobil 1 in my 2 vehicles,
a 2001 Pontiac Aztec, V6 engine, and my
97 Chevy S10 truck, V6 engine.

---

There have been a few analysis' posted on the GM V6's -- they're among the easiest engines on the oil in existence today. A UOA or just a diligent eye on your coolant levels should be your only major concern.

 

[Ironhorseman]

quote:

---

There are plenty in the UOA section. In fact the UOA section is absolutely chock-full of people running Mobil1, Amsoil, and pretty much everything else under the sun for a mere 3000 or 5000 miles before draining. Unfortunately most here do not have the gonads to actually follow up on the recommendations given by the oil analysis and actually run their oil closer to its limits. This total lack of information really makes it difficult for people on this forum to assess the credibility of any of the extended drain interval claims made by the manufacturers.

---

Have I got a treat for everyone! One of my tasks at the plant that I work for is to set maintenance schedules for plant equipment (diesel and gas tubine engines mainly) based on used oil analysis. One perk of my job is that I can have my oil analized for free! (within reason) I'll do a long term test of Mobil 1 vs. Amsoil on my Dodge Ram. How about a UOA about every 1500 miles till 25,000, 1 year, or the oil poops out, whatever comes first. It's gonna take awhile though for the complete results.

 

[LarryL]

Ironhorseman ... great idea. I have done a lot of software for maintenance and sometimes things are different than expected. There really is a lack of real information about oil performance in the real world. Same with filters.

I always get the feeling that with Mobil 1 you are paying for a giant marketing machine that may or may not make the product any better.

Amsoil is like a cultural thing, either you're in or you're out.

 

[msparks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ironhorseman:

quote:

---

There are plenty in the UOA section. In fact the UOA section is absolutely chock-full of people running Mobil1, Amsoil, and pretty much everything else under the sun for a mere 3000 or 5000 miles before draining. Unfortunately most here do not have the gonads to actually follow up on the recommendations given by the oil analysis and actually run their oil closer to its limits. This total lack of information really makes it difficult for people on this forum to assess the credibility of any of the extended drain interval claims made by the manufacturers.

---

Have I got a treat for everyone! One of my tasks at the plant that I work for is to set maintenance schedules for plant equipment (diesel and gas tubine engines mainly) based on used oil analysis. One perk of my job is that I can have my oil analized for free! (within reason) I'll do a long term test of Mobil 1 vs. Amsoil on my Dodge Ram. How about a UOA about every 1500 miles till 25,000, 1 year, or the oil poops out, whatever comes first. It's gonna take awhile though for the complete results.

---

Heck if you going to go that far, why don't you try out Amsoil for your plant. They have a really good industrial/commercial program. I would say some of their industial lubes are better and the automotive lubes.

Give me a ring if your interested.