Mobil 1 SuperSyn or Amsoil XL-7500???

TooSlick · Jun 27, 2003

Buster,

Amsoil tied for sixth last year w/ Havoline as far as synthetics sold in the quick lube market. Since they have only been selling the XL-7500 stuff for about five years, that's pretty good.

The XL-7500 oils are intended to compete with Castrol sytec, Valvoline Synpower and Pennzoil Performax. These are all Group III oils and the specs on the XL-7500 stuff are better than any of them. I don't see anybody else pushing drain intervals of even 7500 miles, so I don't see any reason why they should reduce prices on these oils unless the market goes that way.

For 7500 mile/6 month drain intervals, I think the results you'd get with the XL-7500 stuff and Mobil 1 would be extremely close in terms of wear rates. Compare the specs for their corresponding 5w-30 oils and you'll see the XL-7500 stuff stacks up pretty well:

XL-7500/Mobil 1, 5w-30

HT/HS: 3.1 Cp/3.1 Cp
Flash Point: 453F/455F
Noack: 8.8%/9.2%
TBN: 10.2/11-12
Pour Point: -60F/-54F
VI: 196/169
Four Ball Wear: .38 mm/.60 mm

The XL-7500 stuff is significantly better than most of the other Group III lubes I've seen ....

TooSlick

[ June 28, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]

userfriendly · Jun 28, 2003

I still have not learned how much the amsoil 7500 series cost per litre. Is it actually more than mobil's pao M-I?
How does it compare in price to other group III engine oils?
The last time I bought Petro Canada's Duron 5W40 it had just gone up to $5.10/litre, which converts to around $3.50/US quart.
I have a case of Chevron synthetic 5W30 un-opened that I paid $6.30/L or around $4.20 US QT.
One year ago I bought some 0W40 Esso XD-3 on sale for $3.50/L or $2.60 U$D/QT.
The Esso 0W40 went 9000KM or 5500 miles and the Pet-Can had still not used any oil at 13000KM (8000 miles)in the same vehicle. (95 3.8 Windstar with 115,000 miles).
Right now I have straight SAE 30 in there just for fun in testing.
All of the oils I just mentioned have flash points around 430-450F, TBNs of around 10-12, SAs of 1-1.35, and pour points of -50F(+-5).
I've been looking through the various oil sites and it looks like Shell's Rotella syn for Diesels and Texaco's Havoline syn for gasoline fueled vehicles may be the ones to beat if their prices are in line.
I'm curious of why Texaco's lubricants are not mentioned very often.
I have to look hard to find them in Canada.
I have not bought any Texaco products because the price is usually a way up there for no reason at all.

greencrew · Jun 28, 2003

The Fleet Farm here in town here handles both Mobil 1 for $4.59 a quart, and Amsoil XL-7500 for $4.99 a quart.

buster · Jun 28, 2003

quote:

For 7500 mile/6 month drain intervals, I think the results you'd get with the XL-7500 stuff and Mobil 1 would be extremely close in terms of wear rates.

Ted, with all due respect, we know the four ball wear test is meaningless. On paper, the oil looks competitive and I think of all the group III's, Schaeffer's is the only one that would beat it. But there is no way Amsoil's XL line is better in anyway then Mobil 1. Just based on the UOA's here alone, M1 is as good as Amsoil's 25k mile line. I don't want to get into the Amsoil vs M1 anymore but I just can't see in any way how the XL line is up to the task like M1. Lets agree to disagree.

buster · Jun 28, 2003

Amsoil Xl 7500 is a big waste of Money IMO. Don't waste your time.

TooSlick · Jun 28, 2003

Buster,

Most of the people I see are changing Mobil 1 every 4000-6000 miles. If you run the XL-7500 series oil with those kind of change intervals I think you'll see equally good results.

The performance of a fully formulated oil depends as much on the additive chemstry as it does the basestock blend. Indeed, this is why the Schaeffers synthetic blends perform so well. I think the PAO based oils will hold up better over extended drain intervals > 10,000 miles, but for short drain intervals the Group III stuff performs very well.

I've actually tested both the Petro Canada and Amsoil group III oils in my Audi and Toyota and the wear rates were basically the same as with the Amsoil, PAO based formulations. In the Audi, I had a TBN of 4.0 w/ the PC product after 10k miles; in the Toyota I had a TBN of 6.5 w/ the Amsoil XL-7500 after 6k miles. Both these analyses were done by Cleveland Tech Center and they normally generate low TBN numbers.

I take the Group III oils very seriously after looking at the results of my own testing ....

TooSlick

buster · Jun 29, 2003

quote:

Most of the people I see are changing Mobil 1 every 4000-6000 miles. If you run the XL-7500 series oil with those kind of change intervals I think you'll see equally good results.

Mobil 1 can go a lot further then 6,000 miles though. I think all of Amsoil's oils are of high quality, but why pay $5.25 qt. when you can buy a fully synthetic oil that will hold up better in the long run?

Matt89 · Jun 29, 2003

quote:

Mobil 1 can go a lot further then 6,000 miles though. I think all of Amsoil's oils are of high quality, but why pay $5.25 qt. when you can buy a fully synthetic oil that will hold up better in the long run?

Buster;

True, true...but people don't run M1 nearly as long as they could. Why? I think because of their intentionally vague recommendations... their website is a joke. "Do what your owner's manual says". OK, drain that M1 at 3,750 miles everybody, you're in stop and go traffic! This the same oil they're running for at least 10-15K /1 year in most applications. Full-on PAO.

For once I have to stick up for Amsoil - the XL-7500 may not be top of the line, but at least its capabilities are advertised accurately. I might order some out of spite...

userfriendly · Jun 29, 2003

Matt;
I think that recommendations and capbilities are two seperate issues.
Mobil nor any other oil company can recommend extended drain intervals beyond the vehicle manufactures direction.
Mobil and other oil companies can state what they believe to be their product's service life in typical conditions.
My point was that if a product costs more, then it should be a superior product and a cost effective alternative.
A decision based on spite?
Thats like...... thinking like a man, then removing reason and accountability.

Matt89 · Jun 29, 2003

quote:

Thats like...... thinking like a man, then removing reason and accountability.

Guilty as charged. I tend to run a little hot sometimes.

Just strikes me as odd that we have to run our own field tests to determine the proper usage interval of Mobil1. They're the ones with the billion dollar labs, maybe they could "throw us a bone"

userfriendly · Jun 29, 2003

Matt;
I was going to say ......thinking like a woman, but I chickened out

Matt89 · Jun 29, 2003

I was pickin' up what you were puttin' down!

I wouldn't call leaving that out "chicken" though. "smart" is a better word.

Somehow they always know...might have taken years but you would have paid for it

Mobil 1 SuperSyn or Amsoil XL-7500???

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