Mobil 1: Noiser Engine = More Wear or Just More Annoying?

[LVHospiceRN]

I changed from Penzzoil 5W-30 in my 99 Saturn to M1 5W-30. No changes in engine noise that i noticed, but it did start using about a quart every 3000 miles...

Last oil change, i put in GC...with a bit over 500 miles on this change, no oil consumption..

darrell
sin city

 

[goodvibes]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike:

but it's just more common with M1. In a lot of motors it exists,

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What you have is people who says it exists. Such evidence is referred to as "anecdotal" and by no means is any proof of anything. Just hearsay and the more its gets repeated the more people say its common. Yet there is absolutely no evidence to prve any of this, just people wanting you to take thier word for it. [/Q]
The title of this topic assumes it exists and many have posted first hand experiences of the increased noise level. To us, it's not anecdotal. You can believe what you like but I'm not lying. If a tree falls in the forest and your not there, did it make a sound? Now prove it. It's pretty often that we see somebody change to Amsoil, GC, or Redline from M1 and comment on a quieter motor without complaining about M1 or joining this discussion. Say M1 was quiet for you or it wasn't. There's no conspiracy and I don't think there are to many blind followers or liers here.

 

[TonyMazz]

So this sort of does for me...I am run dino Castrol GTX in 169,000 miles...running through ARX and WAS going to switch to synthetic..but **** might as well just keep the dino in there...it's quite even with this mileage on it...

 

[buster]

My car is extremely smooth on Mobil 1 EP 10w-30. Others have noticed increased smoothness/quietness when going from the watered down M1 GF-4 to the EP stuff.

It could be the AN's or it could be nothing at all. Hard to say, but something does seem to make Mobil 1 more prone to noise.

Look at the sample size your dealing with here too. Mobil 1 owns 63% of the Synthetic market. So that means Mobil 1 makes up 63% of all synthetics out there. Take the few people that said Redline makes their engines noisey or German Castrol makes their engines sluggish. Those 2 oils alone represent a fraction of what Mobil 1 does.

 

[TooSlick]

Engine tolerances are greatest during warmup and this is also when folks most complain about things like "piston slap"....

Mobil 1 is significantly thinner (especially the 0w-xx grades) than a conventional 5w-30/10w-30/10w-40 oil during this phase of operation. So the conventional lube provides more damping and attenuation of noise, even if the viscosity @ 100C, or the ultimate HT/HS viscosity is the same as M1.

PAO's are simply very pure, man made hydrocarbon chains,ie 1-decene or do-decene. There is no chemical or physical reason why they would cause excessive engine noise - except a significant difference in cold/hot viscosity. And of course the placebo effect....

 

[Blue99]

quote:

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There is no chemical or physical reason why they would cause excessive engine noise - except a significant difference in cold/hot viscosity. And of course the placebo effect....

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A thicker M1 viscosity is not the answer for reduced noise, as I previously mentioned, M1 TSUV 5W-40, at 102cSt @ 40c, still generated some cold start noise in my GM 5.3L engine.

And in my 1990 F-150 4x4, with the 4.9L straight six, M1 10W-30 generated or "enhanced" a higher pitch bearing whine that was not evident with the dino oils that I used in the summertime.

I don't think "placebo effect" is an accurate use of the term, as most people are expecting a premium synthetic PCMO to be very quiet running in their engine. What is apparent & real is the surprise due to an unexpected increase in the levels or types of engine noise.

 

[1911]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
Engine tolerances are greatest during warmup and this is also when folks most complain about things like "piston slap"....

Mobil 1 is significantly thinner (especially the 0w-xx grades) than a conventional 5w-30/10w-30/10w-40 oil during this phase of operation.

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Thanks Ted but this is certainly not true for folks who start their engines in the deep south in summer. Here, in North Texas, it's in at least the mid nineties everyday. What you say would only apply for the same viscosity grades at temps way way below 40C.

1911

 

[Big O Dave]

And my problem with engine noise occurs not at cold start, but at hot idle.

 

[1sttruck]

To describe this quandry I'll propose a thought experiment; Bitog's Cat.

Imagine a cat in a box, with an opening at the top, and a stand with a screen around it to prevent the cat from knocking it mover. On the stand there a dish with a vial of poison in it. There is a metal ramp, angled slightly, to allow a ball bearing dropped thru the opening to hit the ramp and bounce towards the vial of poison. If the vial breaks the poison will kill the cat.

In one case imagine wiping a layer of a thin oil on the ramp, say Mobil 1 5w30, and filling the dish with the vial of poison with just enough oil to cover the vial with a thin layer of oil. Now drop a ball bearing thru the opening, which will hit the ramp and bounce towards the vial, hit the vial, and make a noise. Do the same with a thicker oil, say Delvac 1, and also add enough of the thicker oil to the dish to cover the vial a thicker, deeper layer of oil. Drop a ball bearing thru the opening.

Which oil will produce more noise ? Probably the thinner oil.

Which oil will produce more Fe in the oil on the ramp ? Probably the thinner oil.

If done repeatedly, which oil will produce more wear on the ramp ? Probably the thinner oil.

Which oil will more likely result in killing the cat ? Probably the thinner oil.

But, since we are in a superposition of states, that of increased noise, more Fe, and the belief of lower wear with thin Mobil 1 regardless of Fe and noise, we really don't know until we perform a measurement by opening the box, measuring the wear on the ramp, determining the Fe in the oil on the ramp, and seeing if the cat is dead :^)

 

[fuel tanker man]

My Subaru is a quit renning engine on Mobil 1 5w 0r 1030 makes no difference.

A quit running engine on Mobil 1?

I think if Mobil 1 caused my engine to "quit running" I'd switch oils...

Dan

 

[Triple_Se7en]

There is an "EDIT" button for posters who make spelling mistakes.

Look at the date and time at the top of your posts.... then move your cursor to the right & click on the 3rd Icon over.

 

[Mike_dup1]

quote:

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but it's just more common with M1. In a lot of motors it exists,

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What you have is people who says it exists. Such evidence is referred to as "anecdotal" and by no means is any proof of anything. Just hearsay and the more its gets repeated the more people say its common. Yet there is absolutely no evidence to prve any of this, just people wanting you to take thier word for it.

 

[fuel tanker man]

The above is of course true. But if several folks tell me a dog bites I avoid that dog, you know, just in case.

Dan

 

[Flimflam]

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:

quote:

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Originally posted by Flimflam:

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:
I don't buy into the "increased noise = increased wear" statement anymore than the opposite. You could pack an engine with heavy grease or some type of foam and have it be very quiet - right up until it seized from inadequate lubrication.

I was using M1 15W-50 in air cooled motorcycle engines in the early 80's. One thing I noticed then was that without exception, every one I tried it in had more noise than the common 10W-40 or 20w-50 dino oils used at the time.

I really doubt it was showing increased wear vs. the dino oils of the day. Quite the opposite in fact. In one case I know of in highly tuned Honda 400 4 cylinder engines you could almost bet on having trashed bottom ends in a few weekends of endurance racing, yet the same engines would run all season using M1 with no problems.

Some fluids are better at dampening noise than others. I just don't believe it has anything to do with which is a better lubricant...

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jsharp, another CB 400 F fan!!! I feel I just have to weigh in with my 2 cents' worth.

My 1976 CB 400 F is still running happily now, handed down to my Buddy. Never had the heads off since new.

It's always had Castrol GTX 20w-50 or Castrol HD-30.

I cannot say whether Mobil 1 20w-50 would have worked. but I can tell you this: My mechanic, also a CB 400 F fan from way back, has seen quite a few motors come apart (from all the Big 4 Japanese manufacturers) because of Mobil 1. Granted, it was Early Mobil 1. To this day, he still won't touch Mobil 1, even though everybody tells him new Mobil 1 is much improved from the old Mobil 1.

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They were interesting bikes and I liked them but I never owned one. The trouble with them was the same as a lot of other Honda designs of the time. You had to spin the engine into the stratosphere to get enough power out of them to make them competitive with the RD-350 and RD-400 Yamaha 2 cycles that were 50+ pounds lighter and handled better.

The bottom ends were just not strong enough to stand long term running at 11,000 or 12,000 RPM or more. Better rods, a better oil pump, and better lubricants would make them last well enough for the guys running them.

Me, I raced 2 stokes because I was cheap and lazy...

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I am kind of amused you pick 2-strokes because you are cheap and lazy. I settled on Honda 4-strokes for precisely the same reason!!!!!! Like I said before, my 1976 CB 400 F is still alive and kicking today, and running well. It has had nothing but frequent oil and oil filter changes.

Honda CB 400 F was the only 435-pound, 11,000 rpm-revvin' four-cylinder 4-stroke in its time. In those days, many people went for Kawasaki Z-1, Honda CB 750 K-series, which weighed like 550-pounds. Those guys wondered why they got so tired and sweaty after a few minutes of Twisty Road!!!!!!!

Only 2 bikes can make me do a Double Take if I spot them parked on a street. One is the CB 400 F, and the other is the evil-handling CBX Six. The latter makes Everybody do a double take. MV Agusta, you think you have a show stopper, Huh? Think again. Honda beat you to the Count 20 years ago!!!!!

 

[mechtech]

At 5,000 miles, you don't know what normal is for your engine.

 

[TooSlick]

1911,

I was trying to be nice and play Devils Advocate...

I frankly don't understand the cause/effect in this case,? having never used any of the Mobil synlubes. I have to say, it's not a complaint I ever hear from local customers of mine, in fact quite the opposite is true.

Thanks for the lesson in viscometrics...

Ted

 

[chas3]

i don't know the answer to this problem. i can only offer more evidence.

gm 3800 with 90,000 miles. m1 0w40 will produce light ticking at hot idle (its seems to be pressure related as well, if i brake and the engine rpm drops, the pressure drops, and the tick gets louder. shift to neutral, rpms go up, ticking gets less). running plain old pennzoil 10w30 fails to get the same noises hot idle. is the moly in pennzoil the difference? the viscosity should be about the same at hot idle.

 

[buster]

Noise or no noise, it really doesn't matter. Only a UOA can tell how well the oil is doing....and even that is questionable.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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Noise or no noise, it really doesn't matter.

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It matters to my ears.

 

[Big O Dave]

quote:

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Originally posted by mechtech:
At 5,000 miles, you don't know what normal is for your engine.

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This is true to an extent... I've lived with this engine for almost five years now, so it's not like it's only a few months old. I put it together, I know its sounds.

As an aside, I used to have a '97 C1500 with the 4.3L V6. Once broken in, that engine lived on Chevron Delo 400 Synthetic 0W-30 for over 65,000 miles (until I sold it

) and it was not mechanically noisy. This, despite the fact that some around here at BITOG think that Delo 0W-30 is a very thin oil, too thin.

Back to my C20: I'm not convinced that the M1 "noise" equates to increased wear. Having said that, I have eight quarts of M1 5W-30 EP waiting to go in it within a month, so the whole noise picture may change at that time. We'll see.