Thin vs Thick Discussion, Chapter 8

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Chapter Eight. Odds and ends.

I have some stories that I collected. First, my architect drives a big SUV. He was running with Mobil 1 brand 15W-50. He changed it to Pennzoil Multi-grade (mineral oil based, non-synthetic, cheap) 5W-20 at my suggestion. His gas mileage went from 10 to 13 MPG around town. What really impressed him the most was the “robust” increase in “get up and go.” He changed from a thick synthetic to a thin mineral oil. His venue is stop and go city traffic in Florida, mostly short trips. The oil just never got that hot to require a 50 grade oil. Short trips means that the oil temperature never gets up to the normal operating range. It was too thick on short trips and too thick when it did get up to temperature. The lower temperatures he saw with the thinner oil occurred because of reduced friction and internal drag and higher oil flow.

One of the members of the Ferrari Chat web site went from a 40 to a 30 grade oil in his Ferrari 355 for racing in Texas. He noticed a drop in temperature but no change in oil pressure. This may seem odd but really makes perfect sense. Since the 30 grade oil is thinner he got better flow and therefore better cooling. The oil was at a lower temperature so it was not as thin than it would have been at the previous higher temperature. Cooler engines last longer. Fact: The higher the temperature, the greater the wear, all other things being equal.

People say that their old car manual says to use a 10W-40 so they would never think of using a 0W-40. Again, both are the same viscosity at normal engine operating temperature. The 0W-40 just does not thicken as much after you turn off your engine. There are now several cases when manuals for older cars have been updated to reflect this. My 550 Ferrari Maranello manual said to use 5W-40 yet the 575 manual says to use the 0W-40. The engines are the same except the 575 has more BHP. It has better acceleration and more top speed. The engines have the same tolerances.

All manufacturers I have seen are specifying 0W-XX or 5W-XX oils now. Honda, Ferrari, Ford, Mercedes, Porsche, and others specify a 0 or 5W-XX oil to mention a few. These are appropriate for all engines of all ages of all levels of wear. This second number is the only thing that may change with an older, lose or worn engine. This can only be determined by experimentation. If you are using XW-50, go to a 0W-40. If your pressures are still too high go to a 0W-30 and so on.

When I took delivery of my 575 Maranello I drove for 500 miles then changed the oil to 0W-30 Mobil 1. There were no changes in operating pressure or temperature. Starting the engine seemed faster though. I called up FNA (Ferrari North America) and was told that all new Ferrari Maranellos are delivered with 5W-30 Shell Helix Ultra. That is when I decided to try the 0W-20 Mobil 1. I could have gone to a 10 grade oil as my pressures were still excessive while driving around town. I no longer drive on the track.

What about the break-in period? For one thing you could just follow the car’s manual and gradually break your engine in. Some cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini run engines and the cars for a period of time before you even take delivery. They often run up to full power. Some representatives at least from Ferrari hinted that the traditional break in period was not really needed, at least in their cars.

Most people who buy high powered cars that I have experienced will just get in there cars and step on the gas fully. They do not wait for the oil to warm up. Personally I would not mind running full BHP for short bursts during the break in period but I always fully warm up the engine first. Water / coolant warms up in just a few minutes but oils takes up to 30 minutes to get up to just the normal operating temperature of around 200 F.

Older engines may in fact benefit from thinner oil use. Over time permanent deposits of carbon and sludge build up in the engine oil ways. It is like a clogging of the arteries in humans. We are now all on blood thinners. This is an area I specifically studied while a general surgeon resident at Chapel Hill.

Thinner oils, and specifically synthetic products are better. Some people say their engines were “designed” to run on mineral based lubricates. I have not seen anything to support this theory. The synthetic of the same viscosity as the mineral oil you are now using will be an improvement. If you go from a mineral to an even thinner synthetic you may be better off still. The pressures go up in many older engines because of this “clogging” of the arteries. Most think this is good but it is really a lessening of flow and therefore accelerates engine wear even further. The upcoming chapter on flow will make things more evident.

For those engines with excessive varnish and carbon buildup the engine oil additives of the detergent type may be of benefit. In general however, I think it is a very bad idea to add aftermarket chemicals to your oil. On the other hand you could just use a thin synthetic oil and change it every 200 miles for a while and end up with an even cleaner engine. With everything working properly you may actually need a thicker oil if that engine is overly worn. The thicker oil would be a disaster however, if the arteries were narrowed from deposits.

Remember, the only difference between a 0W-40 and a 10W-40 is that the 0W-40 thickens less after you turn off your engine. It is still too thick in the morning at startup but not as thick as the 10W-40. Yet, they are still too thick to use until they both warm up to operating temperature at which point they have the same viscosity, around 13 to 14. Remember that the 0W-30, 10W-30 and straight 30 grade oils all have a viscosity of around 10 at normal engine operating temperatures. They all thicken when you turn off your engine. The single grade 30 oil will thicken the most.

There is one more thing. A 20 grade oil is not half as thick as a 40 grade oil. The real scale is more like the oils having an absolute thickness of 108 and 114. Now it can be seen that the 40 grade oil is only around 10 percent thicker than the 20 grade oil. The difference is not that much at operation but at startup the difference is significant. Pressure / flow dynamics go along with this 10 percent figure. A 30 grade oil should be thought of as having an absolute viscosity of 110 and a 50 grade oil has an absolute viscosity of 120. I am talking about the viscosity at operating temperatures.

I thought everyone knew that 90 percent of engine wear occurs during the startup period because oil is just too thick. Some think it is good to have a thicker oil for startup since the parts shrink when cold and would otherwise “rattle.” Sure, your piston diameter will shrink on cooling but so will the diameter of your bore. The net result is about the same clearance hot and cold. This is not true for your valves. They lengthen when extremely hot. In the Murcielago they use shims instead of self adjusting valve tappets. You need to put a millimeter of clearance there so that after expansion the valve will not be held partly open when it is supposed to be closed.

If it were true that thicker oils were needed at startup then the manufacturers would not be requesting oils that thicken less on cooling. They would just specify that one should use a straight 30 or 40 grade oil. Instead, over time, they have been specifying thinner and thinner oils.

The manufacturers know what parts shrink or expand and the clearance changes that result. You do not have to worry about this. If it was that easy to design engines we would all be making them.

I would like to go back to the worry that oil falls off the parts when a car is stored or sees long periods of inactivity. For the first oil change in my 575 Maranello I drained the Shell and put in 0W-30 Mobil 1. This was at a few hundred miles on the odometer. I drove the car home from work, put it on the lift and drained the transaxle and engine oils. I also opened and drained the oil cooler and took off every line that was in the oil system. I wanted to get every speck of the Shell oil out of there. For optimal results you are not supposed to mix synthetic oils of different brands.

The system takes 12 quarts with a “normal” oil change but took 15 quarts for this change. It all took about an hour. I then started the engine to check for leaks. The multitude of mechanical engine noises that followed nearly broke my eardrums for about 5 long seconds. Then it was suddenly very quiet. You could hear a pin drop. There was certainly the most possible amount of surface oil on all the internal parts as the engine was only off for an hour. But it was not until the oil circuit primed, filled, then sent flow into all the parts that appropriate lubrication was occurring. Hence all oil filters that are manufacturer certified have back flow limiters to keep the oil ways and filter full even with the engine off.

AEHaas
 
The manufacturers know what parts shrink or expand and the clearance changes that result. You do not have to worry about this. If it was that easy to design engines we would all be making them.
I wonder why you make a statement like this. A statement saying we should not worry because the manufacturers know how their engines behave and then have a treatise on why we should use non approved oil. At least that's how I am reading it.
 
I noticed part 7 has some inaccuracies on viscosity but thats nothing new

should be rewritten to include newer oils such as 0w16 and its impact on 20grade viscosity range.
 
op,

it would be advantageous if you simplify the contents or break it down ... You are kind of covering A to Z.
 
I thought everyone knew that 90 percent of engine wear occurs during the startup period because oil is just too thick
Fact: The higher the temperature, the greater the wear, all other things being equal.
You seem to be advocating lower viscosities, but don't the manufacturers of engines that have higher heat loads specify larger viscosity oils to compensate for this?

Also I can see why you are comparing the circulatory system to an oiling system on a car but I really think they do not behave the same as far as the fluids involved. IOW oil can be blended to not leave deposits or have other ingredients added to maintain the system
 
op,

it would be advantageous if you simplify the contents or break it down ... You are kind of covering A to Z.
Some of our sharpest engineers are not great at technical writing … If they have a significant story to tell … and after peer review - the company will allow them to use a ghost writer before the paper is submitted
 
I wonder why you make a statement like this. A statement saying we should not worry because the manufacturers know how their engines behave and then have a treatise on why we should use non approved oil. At least that's how I am reading it.
Generally speaking, the manufacturers know what’s best for the engine. I mean, they did in fact design it.
 
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