Mobil 1 is slipping, ACEA downgrades for M1

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
0W-20 doesn't meet A5, I'm not sure it can based on the weight...


That is correct. A5 requires an HT/HS viscosity of >= 2.9 and over-the-counter 0W-20 that is that heavy.

A1/B1 has the same HT/HS viscosity requirement, except that it allows >= 2.6 for an xW-20. Sulfated ash must be B1? It seems like it would meet A1/B1 on other metrics (its HT/HS viscosity is 2.7 cP according to XOM).

It is curious that XOM would publish that its 0W-20 AFE meets A1/B1 but not its 0W-20 EP.

 

[geeman789]

Why would M1 waste their time testing for and printing labels for a euro spec that virtually NOBODY in North America knows about, or cares to know about...

It would be like an automaker printing all the euro emissions stats for a US consumer...

grams per km CO WHAAAAAT.....!

 

[TriboGeek]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Slipping? That's funny. So one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) and most respected company in the industry is going to give up market share by producing an inferior product? C'mon, man.

Maybe they changed the formula and the HTHS on the 5W-30 is 2.8. The light oil guys should love that.


Hehe...


I was just getting all excited about their 5w30 being a perfect fit for my application...

 

[TriboGeek]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Why would M1 waste their time testing for and printing labels for a euro spec that virtually NOBODY in North America knows about, or cares to know about...

It would be like an automaker printing all the euro emissions stats for a US consumer...

grams per km CO WHAAAAAT.....!


Hmm.. Maybe because there are lots of european cars in america, owned by americans? And some of them actually have European market oil spec requirements?? And the owners often care about performance motoring and care about the oil performance???

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Why would M1 waste their time testing for and printing labels for a euro spec that virtually NOBODY in North America knows about, or cares to know about...

Last time I checked, VW, Audi, MB, and BMW sold quite a few cars here in North America. They all call for oils meeting various Euro specs. Granted, neither ACEA A1 nor A5 is one of them.

 

[wemay]

Two schools of thought here:

•Not on the bottle, doesn't meet spec
•It meets spec, they just didn't print It on the label for what ever reason

Hmmmm...

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Why would M1 waste their time testing for and printing labels for a euro spec that virtually NOBODY in North America knows about, or cares to know about...

Last time I checked, VW, Audi, MB, and BMW sold quite a few cars here in North America. They all call for oils meeting various Euro specs. Granted, neither ACEA A1 nor A5 is one of them.



+1

 

[supercity]

M1 is predominantly a GF-5 lube. A5/B5 is quite different really, it’s suitable for long drain European light diesel applications and it seems to go hand in hand with Ford WSS M2C 913 which is used in virtually all late model Euro Fords, petrol and diesel. I don’t really see a GF-5 being able to cope with that. I don’t know any GF-5 lubes that claim M2C-913 inc M1. Can it be A5/B5 and GF-5 are becoming too different to meet with the same lube? I don't know, but GF-5 has a much lower Phos limit AFAIK.

I dont think M1 has changed, I think ACEA has changed and M1 does not meet the latest requirements.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: supercity
M1 is predominantly a GF-5 lube. A5/B5 is quite different really, it’s suitable for long drain European light diesel applications and it seems to go hand in hand with Ford WSS M2C 913 which is used in virtually all late model Euro Fords, petrol and diesel. I don’t really see a GF-5 being able to cope with that. I don’t know any GF-5 lubes that claim M2C-913 inc M1. Can it be A5/B5 and GF-5 are becoming too different to meet with the same lube? I don't know, but GF-5 has a much lower Phos limit AFAIK.

I dont think M1 has changed, I think ACEA has changed and M1 does not meet the latest requirements.


A good number of xW-30 grades sold in America claim to meet the A5/B5 specification, including Mobil 1. It's good ol' bread-and-butter 5W-30 meets A5/B5, as does its 0W-30 AFE. But again with EP, 5W-30 EP does not claim to meet A5/B5 on the spec sheet.

I'm not personally all that concerned about whether a particular lube does or doesn't meet a certain ACEA spec. But as a fervent observer of engine oils, I find the inconsistency within Mobil 1's lineup curious.

 

[njohnson]

I have a bottle of M1 Extended Protection 5W-30 in the garage. I just checked the back of the label, and it says A1/B1 and A5/B5. So, the label says it, yet, the product data sheets don't mention A5/B5.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Their current PDS says that 5W-30 EP is A1/B1. However, if you look at the "Specs/Approvals" tab on the website, it still lists A5/B5. Perhaps it's simply an error on the PDS.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: geeman789
Why would M1 waste their time testing for and printing labels for a euro spec that virtually NOBODY in North America knows about, or cares to know about...

Last time I checked, VW, Audi, MB, and BMW sold quite a few cars here in North America. They all call for oils meeting various Euro specs. Granted, neither ACEA A1 nor A5 is one of them.



No. They call for oil meeting THEIR SPECS...! Which may exceed ACEA specs...

Do many current Euro car owners do their own maintenance... ? I don't think my neighbour even knows how to open the hood of his MB C300... they service at dealer, and have NO IDEA what oil is used, nor care.

You are the 1 % who actually understands your car, has some technical knowledge, and cares about oil specs and performance.

Most who do change their own oil will simply look for the specific manufacturers approval , ie MB 229.xx. , or BMW LL-01 , or VW/Audi 504/507 etc. , not look for A5/B5 , for example.

 

[CELICA_XX]

Originally Posted By: supercity
Can it be A5/B5 and GF-5 are becoming too different to meet with the same lube?

I thought lots of oils meet both GF-5 and A5/B5

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
No. They call for oil meeting THEIR SPECS...!

You wrote "euro spec", and that's the part that I was responding to. To me "euro spec" can mean both ACEA as well as BMW LL-01, or MB 229.5.

As for how many change their own oil, no idea. Once the cars are off warranty, probably quite a few if they don't want to get raped by the dealer's service department. People who buy second hand luxury cars do so because they can't or don't want to spend money on brand new luxury cars, and hence, they probably can't or don't want to spend money on dealer servicing either.

My local walmarts can't keep up with stocking M1 0w-40. The sales label is there, but the place on the shelf is usually empty. Who buys that stuff if not a Euro car owner?

 

[Nickdfresh]

I was at Wal-Mart today in fact, and all bottles of Mobil 1 (stocks were low presumably because of the Rollback) had the respective ratings of ACEA A1, A1 & A5, or A3 listed depending on weight...

The 5W-30 was listed as A1/A5...

 

[BrianC]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
I was at Wal-Mart today in fact, and all bottles of Mobil 1 (stocks were low presumably because of the Rollback) had the respective ratings of ACEA A1, A1 & A5, or A3 listed depending on weight...

The 5W-30 was listed as A1/A5...


I was there today as well. Seems they are in a transition of new labeling, new labels as described by the OP. If you take a look at the relative performance tool at Lubrizol it's interesting that DEXOS1 meets or exceeds the A5/B5 in 3 out of 4 areas (not counting soot)plus DEXOS1 requires less sulphated ash and sulfur than A5/B5. Maybe they feel DEXOS1 covers alot of the same territory.

http://origin-qps.onstreammedia.com/orig...p/pc/index.html

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: geeman789
No. They call for oil meeting THEIR SPECS...!

You wrote "euro spec", and that's the part that I was responding to. To me "euro spec" can mean both ACEA as well as BMW LL-01, or MB 229.5.

As for how many change their own oil, no idea. Once the cars are off warranty, probably quite a few if they don't want to get raped by the dealer's service department. People who buy second hand luxury cars do so because they can't or don't want to spend money on brand new luxury cars, and hence, they probably can't or don't want to spend money on dealer servicing either.

My local walmarts can't keep up with stocking M1 0w-40. The sales label is there, but the place on the shelf is usually empty. Who buys that stuff if not a Euro car owner?


M1 0w40 has become the go to oil for many performance oriented owners of ANY brand of car. Widely available, reasonably priced, meets most Euro brand specs... not too thick, good in winter etc etc.

And I was at Canadian Tire today, and a polite young fellow asked me what oil he should buy... simple question, huh.

The oil wall at this store is about 50 ft long and 6 levels high. They carry PYB, QSGB, MOBIL 2000, GTX, AMSOIL, M1 in every flavour, PU, PPP, QSUD, ROTELLA, CASTROL, SHELL and CT brand, and I probably missed some.

In the generic 5w30 grade, I counted at least 15 different kinds... MOBIL is one example. M1 regular, EP, and ESP, as well as 1000 and 2000 conv. Plus 0w30, and M1 10w30 reg. and EP. That's EIGHT! 30 grade choices in one brand....?

Too many choices, perhaps...? I'd say yes...

I asked him for what car...? he said Acura RSX -S , spec'ing 5w30...

I told him to use M1 0w40... year round, and I had 5 liters in my basket as well... for my WRX...!

Neither of which are European brands...obviously. But the Euro manufacturer oil standards are some of the toughest on the planet.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
M1 0w40 has become the go to oil for many performance oriented owners of ANY brand of car.

Down here most people are still allergic to the whole "0w" thing. They avoid it like a plague unless the owner's manual specifically calls for it.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
I thought lots of oils meet both GF-5 and A5/B5

Yes, there are a sufficient number of examples.

 

[TriboGeek]

I buy M1 0w40 because it's one of Mobil's best oils, and exactly because it meets tough euro performance requirements. I put it in a high output Toyota 4AGE, and I drive that motor a LOT on the highway, kinda like the autobahn. I also run that oil at the track a lot too.

I also own several VWs and am into euro vehicles.