2013 Volvo S80 3.2l, 2000 mi, dealer bulk oil

[himemsys]

This is my first UOA with Oil Analyzers. I'm unfamiliar with their online submittal form. They use a lot of terminology that is foreign to me. Such as Component ID, Asset ID, and Baseline Reference. I apparently listed this as a Baseline Reference (which I've since learned is equivalent to a virgin sample to them, when I thought it was the first sample from a vehicle), so they did not test for fuel with Gas Chromatography. I'm still communicating with them via email to see if they can still test for this or not. So that's why they didn't test for fuel dilution, even though my comments in the Miscellaneous Information section clearly indicated that this was used oil.

The oil, according to Carfax, was changed at a Volvo dealer in Texas on 12/15/22 at 61329 miles, which makes this oil 2052 miles. The wear metals look great, but the TBN seems low for 2000 miles. The viscosity is in grade for 5W30, but depending on whether there was fuel in the oil, might not be representative of the oil's virgin viscosity. The oil does not appear to be ACEA A5/B5 or equivalent. I'm guessing it's just standard dealer bulk 5W30 based on the additive package. But the wear metals didn't appear to suffer for it?

The oil that replaced this is Castrol EDGE Euro Car 5W30 A3/B4, which has a much stouter additive package. UOA for that will come in late October.

 

[Astro14]

Another Volvo dealer than doesn’t understand what a specification looks like…

Not all 5W30 are created equal. You need an ACEA rated oil. Personal preference is one that also includes MB 229.5 and/Porsche A40.

Use of oil like this will cause flame trap problems. Here is an example of a high mile Volvo, which had dealer service. The circled spot is the oil return passage in the block from the PCV box which Volvo calls a flame trap.

This one was nearly blocked. The oil sump passage was no better. Atherosclerosis of the engine. Which comes from using the wrong specification of oil. Once it gets to this point, the only fix is physical cleaning of the carbon. If ignored, it will plug completely. Then oil consumption will spike. Then crankcase pressure will build. Then, a cam seal is going to blow and all your oil will exit the engine in a hurry.

So, don’t let it get to this point. Use the correct specification of oil. See my previous recommendation to you on that.

 

[himemsys]

So, don’t let it get to this point. Use the correct specification of oil. See my previous recommendation to you on that.

Umm... I did?

The oil that replaced this is Castrol EDGE Euro Car 5W30 A3/B4, which has a much stouter additive package.

I will be sticking to A3/B4 or C3 oils, both of which cover the A5/B5 spec, minus the fuel economy and TBN (I won't be running 10000 mile OCIs). I think the C3 rating actually covers A3/B4 for the most part, with the addition of fuel economy and aftertreatment (catalytic converter protection).

 

[himemsys]

Use the correct specification of oil. See my previous recommendation to you on that.

Based on our conversation in the other thread, this is a list of oils I compiled that I believe would be suitable for this vehicle. Let me know if there are any on there you would not recommend. I believe most, if not all of them are MB 229.5 and/Porsche A40.

Oil​	visc.​	cSt​	PP F.​	Cost/qt​	Cost/OC​
Mobil 1 0W40 A3/B4​	0W40​	13.4​	-43.6​	$5.39​	$53.94​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	5W40​	13.4​	-43.6​	$5.79​	$57.88​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	0W40​	13.2​	-70.6​	$5.79​	$57.88​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	0W30​	12.1​	-76.0​	$8.88​	$71.04​
Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 C3​	0W30​	12.0​	-59.8​	$7.60​	$75.98​
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L C3​	5W30​	11.9​	-49.0​	$5.29​	$52.88​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	5W30​	11.9​	-32.8​	$5.79​	$57.88​
Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 C3​	5W30​	11.8​	-43.6​	$7.40​	$73.98​

edit: They are all 229.5 (some backwards compatible via 229.51 or 229.52). M1 0W40, Castrol EDGE 5W40 and 0W40 are A40. M1 ESP 0W30 and 5W30 and Pennzoil Euro L are C3, and all of the Castrols plus the M1 0W40 are A3/B4.

 

[Astro14]

Based on our conversation in the other thread, this is a list of oils I compiled that I believe would be suitable for this vehicle. Let me know if there are any on there you would not recommend. I believe most, if not all of them are MB 229.5 and/Porsche A40.

Oil​	visc.​	cSt​	PP F.​	Cost/qt​	Cost/OC​
Mobil 1 0W40 A3/B4​	0W40​	13.4​	-43.6​	$5.39​	$53.94​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	5W40​	13.4​	-43.6​	$5.79​	$57.88​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	0W40​	13.2​	-70.6​	$5.79​	$57.88​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	0W30​	12.1​	-76.0​	$8.88​	$71.04​
Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 C3​	0W30​	12.0​	-59.8​	$7.60​	$75.98​
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L C3​	5W30​	11.9​	-49.0​	$5.29​	$52.88​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	5W30​	11.9​	-32.8​	$5.79​	$57.88​
Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 C3​	5W30​	11.8​	-43.6​	$7.40​	$73.98​

edit: They are all 229.5 (some backwards compatible via 229.51 or 229.52). M1 0W40, Castrol EDGE 5W40 and 0W40 are A40. M1 ESP 0W30 and 5W30 and Pennzoil Euro L are C3, and all of the Castrols plus the M1 0W40 are A3/B4.

I’d be happy with any one of those. Your car will run a long time, if properly cared for, just ask @Sam_Julier

 

[kschachn]

I’d be happy with any one of those. Your car will run a long time, if properly cared for, just ask @Sam_Julier

Agreed. They all have a sufficient HT/HS and the winter rating is dependent on the expected starting temperatures. If it's below -30 or so then they all are equivalent there. I tend to like lower SAPS oils so if it were me I'd gravitate towards one that is also ACEA C3.

 

[Sam_Julier]

Based on our conversation in the other thread, this is a list of oils I compiled that I believe would be suitable for this vehicle. Let me know if there are any on there you would not recommend. I believe most, if not all of them are MB 229.5 and/Porsche A40.

Oil​	visc.​	cSt​	PP F.​	Cost/qt​	Cost/OC​
Mobil 1 0W40 A3/B4​	0W40​	13.4​	-43.6​	$5.39​	$53.94​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	5W40​	13.4​	-43.6​	$5.79​	$57.88​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	0W40​	13.2​	-70.6​	$5.79​	$57.88​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	0W30​	12.1​	-76.0​	$8.88​	$71.04​
Mobil 1 ESP 0W30 C3​	0W30​	12.0​	-59.8​	$7.60​	$75.98​
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L C3​	5W30​	11.9​	-49.0​	$5.29​	$52.88​
Castrol EDGE A3/B4​	5W30​	11.9​	-32.8​	$5.79​	$57.88​
Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 C3​	5W30​	11.8​	-43.6​	$7.40​	$73.98​

edit: They are all 229.5 (some backwards compatible via 229.51 or 229.52). M1 0W40, Castrol EDGE 5W40 and 0W40 are A40. M1 ESP 0W30 and 5W30 and Pennzoil Euro L are C3, and all of the Castrols plus the M1 0W40 are A3/B4.

Any of these oils will work well in a Volvo I-5 or I-6.

IMO as long as it has the ACEA A3/B4, MB 229.5 and Porsche A40 spec you’re good to go.

 

[fantastic]

Contrary to popular belief here on BITOG. OA only does GC testing when the Viscosity is in their predetermined low range trigger. You can ask them at what low viscosity they would test via GC but you'll need to know which Viscosity you'll be running as it will depend on that. Your sample here did not meet that low viscosity requirement apparently.

 

[fantastic]

Another Volvo dealer than doesn’t understand what a specification looks like…

Not all 5W30 are created equal. You need an ACEA rated oil. Personal preference is one that also includes MB 229.5 and/Porsche A40.

Use of oil like this will cause flame trap problems. Here is an example of a high mile Volvo, which had dealer service. The circled spot is the oil return passage in the block from the PCV box which Volvo calls a flame trap.

This one was nearly blocked. The oil sump passage was no better. Atherosclerosis of the engine. Which comes from using the wrong specification of oil. Once it gets to this point, the only fix is physical cleaning of the carbon. If ignored, it will plug completely. Then oil consumption will spike. Then crankcase pressure will build. Then, a cam seal is going to blow and all your oil will exit the engine in a hurry.

So, don’t let it get to this point. Use the correct specification of oil. See my previous recommendation to you on that. View attachment 163487

I wouldn't want that blockage at any mileage but would you happen to know what the mileage was on this car?

 

[BornSlippy]

Pennzoil / QuakerState 5W-40 would be a great oil too.

 

[Astro14]

I wouldn't want that blockage at any mileage but would you happen to know what the mileage was on this car?

234,612

The car ran perfectly. No oil consumption.

But I’m glad I dropped the sump to check. It’s been cleaned up.

 

[himemsys]

Contrary to popular belief here on BITOG. OA only does GC testing when the Viscosity is in their predetermined low range trigger. You can ask them at what low viscosity they would test via GC but you'll need to know which Viscosity you'll be running as it will depend on that. Your sample here did not meet that low viscosity requirement apparently.

No, that's not the case. What I said in my opening post is actually what happened. Here is OA's response when I emailed them:

The sample's component type is baseline reference, which would indicate the sample is unused oil taken from its manufacturer's container. Therefore it would not include any fuel and would not receive the fuel dilution test.

Their predetermined low range trigger is defined as:

When the oil's viscosity is lower than one (1) cSt from the known starting viscosity of the oil when new, we will confirm fuel dilution by ASTM D7593 GC method, reporting the result as percent by volume. However, if lubricant grade is not included with the sample, fuel dilution will be confirmed by GC if viscosity is below 13.3 cSt for diesel engine oil and below 9.8 cSt for gasoline engine oil. If viscosity is above the oil's mid-point for the grade, fuel dilution will be reported as

My sample does not have a known starting viscosity AND its viscosity is below 9.8 cSt, so it should have been tested with GC. The only reason they didn't was because I mistakenly categorized it as "baseline reference" when submitting it online. Apparently the fact that visually it was obviously used oil along with the fact that I left a note saying it had "500 to 2000 miles" was not enough to offset my mis-categorization.

 

[fantastic]

Yes, Viscosity is still part of the requirements. However, Apparently there is an extra trigger I didn't think about, even though you stated it, and that's stating it's unused oil on the UOA form. I understand now and I see that was an accident. Thanks for clarifying that part.

According to the 9.8 reference they should go test this sample via GC.

OA was tricky filling it out but what I did was use their UOA reference guide (cheat sheet) and called them to clarify.

Seeing just a pinch of titanium makes me wonder if Castrol was used in the past on your S80.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[fantastic]

234,612

The car ran perfectly. No oil consumption.

But I’m glad I dropped the sump to check. It’s been cleaned up.

I absolutely agree with using specified oil! Some folks refuse to accept that those specs are specifically for their engines and to prevent certain issues from happening and your situation is a perfect example of that. Thanks for telling me the mileage.

 

[Astro14]

I absolutely agree with using specified oil! Some folks refuse to accept that those specs are specifically for their engines and to prevent certain issues from happening and your situation is a perfect example of that. Thanks for telling me the mileage.

The previous owner of the car, a close friend, is meticulous about maintenance. I have every service record since the car was new.

But shops do the work for him.

And that’s where the disconnect happened. The shops themselves use “5W30” without regard to specification. Often a synthetic, but I can’t tell if they met spec.

So, the engine runs great. Good compression. Cylinder bores look good (I borescoped them when changing plugs). No lubrication issues.

But the carbon build up is considerable and plainly evident.

I cleaned it - as best I could (I suspect the cam valleys in the cylinder head looked similar) and replaced the PCV system.

Now comes the interesting part. It’s been run for 50 miles on Mobil 1. I’ll do a flush with Liquimoly, then change over to HPL and start watching the filter.

I suspect it will load up quickly…

 

[fantastic]

The previous owner of the car, a close friend, is meticulous about maintenance. I have every service record since the car was new.

But shops do the work for him.

And that’s where the disconnect happened. The shops themselves use “5W30” without regard to specification. Often a synthetic, but I can’t tell if they met spec.

So, the engine runs great. Good compression. Cylinder bores look good (I borescoped them when changing plugs). No lubrication issues.

But the carbon build up is considerable and plainly evident.

I cleaned it - as best I could (I suspect the cam valleys in the cylinder head looked similar) and replaced the PCV system.

Now comes the interesting part. It’s been run for 50 miles on Mobil 1. I’ll do a flush with Liquimoly, then change over to HPL and start watching the filter.

I suspect it will load up quickly…

There's still a lot going for it then. Especially since you've caught the issue and are going to try cleaning it up a bit. I will point out that it may not be 100% only, out of spec, oil issue either but for sure didn't help any. If it was just a town commuter for all those miles then it didn't have enough chance to warm up the engine to burn that stuff off & instead accumulated. I've seen this first hand on other engines on the intake's exhaust ports etc. on local running cars.

 

[himemsys]

Updated UOA with Fuel% and Soot. Looks like viscosity changed slightly too, from 9.5 to 9.6. I'll have to say, OA is not as easy to communicate with as Blackstone. But in the end, they did rerun the UOA with the data I asked them to. So kudos to them for that.

 

[fantastic]

^^
I'm happy to hear you got this resolved with OA. I believe they might be cheaper than BS so maybe worth a bit more hassle to you. Hopefully, it's not a trend. All the communication I've had with them have been great but maybe it was all on a Friday.

Soot is not an issue. If this was diesel, using an extended oil drain, then it would be more important IMO. Fuel is low here but we just don't know how to size it up because the mileage is unknown at this point. Hopefully, when you put several thousand miles on this car, the fuel will come back around this range on the oil.

Have you tried sizing up the add pack on this UOA with your Oil Database to see what comes close to what oil might have been used?

Let us know how it goes.

 

[himemsys]

^^
I'm happy to hear you got this resolved with OA. I believe they might be cheaper than BS so maybe worth a bit more hassle to you. Hopefully, it's not a trend. All the communication I've had with them have been great but maybe it was all on a Friday.

Soot is not an issue. If this was diesel, using an extended oil drain, then it would be more important IMO. Fuel is low here but we just don't know how to size it up because the mileage is unknown at this point. Hopefully, when you put several thousand miles on this car, the fuel will come back around this range on the oil.

Have you tried sizing up the add pack on this UOA with your Oil Database to see what comes close to what oil might have been used?

Let us know how it goes.

What's funny is after I sent my first sample in (PPHM VOA), I got this great welcome email that thanked me and let me know I could email them with any questions. I replied to that email with a couple of questions and didn't get a response for 9 days. And when I did get a response, they did not answer my questions. lol It's as if they glanced quickly at my email, waited 9 days, then replied without re-reading my email.

Then this issue. I thought Baseline Reference meant the first UOA that's been done on a specific vehicle. In my comments when submitting the sample, I told them (and they printed it on the report) that the oil had unknown miles, between 500-2000. Visually, the oil sample was obviously used (dark, dirty color). So they ignored the fact that the oil looked used and my comments about it having 500-2000 miles and still skipped the GC and Soot tests because I mis-categorized it as "Baseline Reference".

And it took several emails to get them to retest for GC/Soot.

My plan going forward it to triple-check everything before I submit and cross my fingers I don't have to follow up with them about anything. Their reports and the information they provide are great.

Say what you will about BS, but they are responsive to follow-up questions and their informed response indicates they read my emails very carefully.

I believe they might be cheaper than BS so maybe worth a bit more hassle to you.

I'm not saving any money with OA. I have to buy 3 or more sample kits at a time to get the cost per kit slightly lower than BS. Which means I'm spending ~$120 at a time instead of $45. Then I'll be sitting on my sample kits for several months before actually using them. My return on investment is much slower, and there's now a chance the kits could get lost before I ever use them.

Oh well, like I said, their reports and the information they provide are better than BS's so it's worth dealing with these other areas of shortcoming.

Fuel is low here but we just don't know how to size it up because the mileage is unknown at this point

I bought a Carfax report and the last reported oil change was at a Volvo dealer in TX. If that is correct, then this oil had 2052 miles on it.

Have you tried sizing up the add pack on this UOA with your Oil Database to see what comes close to what oil might have been used?

Yeah, but I wasn't able to come up with anything definitive.

Thanks for your comments!

 

[himemsys]

Have you tried sizing up the add pack on this UOA with your Oil Database to see what comes close to what oil might have been used?

Actually, on second look, it most closely resembles Castrol (which makes sense if done at a Volvo dealer). The only things that are off are the Titanium is too low (should be 15-20) and the Boron is too low high. My used value is 129 so I estimate the virgin value was closer to 200 ppm (Castrol EDGE virgin oil should start at ~130). Maybe that is a dealer bulk specific formulation.