Maybe it's the old Mobil 1=high iron thing.
Mobil 1 FS 0w40, RAM 1500 5.7L HEMI 6000 mi, high FE
- Thread starter tcrs_circuit
- Start date
Sigh... i didn't.. again.
Next interval I will, and also will be dropping the pan too to see how much metal is down there.
I really, really, really doubt it has anything to do with the oil, but we'll see.
The only oil related hypothesis I could see is, some of these hemi's have some piston slap on PAOs and Ester oils,, Maybe the wear is coming from that... We will really won't know until its torn down I think.
The supercar 0w40 has about 1700 ppm of calcium and 800/900 phos and zinc while the FS 0w40 HAD 3200 calcium and 1000/1100 phos and zinc. Moly was the same between the 2. But now that FS is SP it looks like calcium went down and magnesium came up. Not sure of that will happen to supercar 0w40
The M1 interval before (75ppm Fe) had you at 12.5 ppm Fe/1000 miles and now at the 1500 miles on Valvoline (23ppm) you are at 15.3 ppm/1000 miles so increasing. I'd be looking for something inside failing/metal glitter in that oil filter. Al increse during the M1 interval also concerning.
This interval was also M1 0w40.... with added mos2
I drained the valvoline after 1000 miles as a "wash out"
Aside from the slight Hemi tick, it ‘sounds’ like the engine is running fine - no oil consumption noted in your report, bores appear to be good…I would just drive it and keep up with regular oil changes.
It sounds like it will run fine for many more miles, I don’t know why you have this need to find something wrong to spend all the $$ to swap out or rebuild the engine? Run it until it develops and actual running problem.
It sounds like it will run fine for many more miles, I don’t know why you have this need to find something wrong to spend all the $$ to swap out or rebuild the engine? Run it until it develops and actual running problem.
If you go back to Valvoline it will (or at last should!) look exactly the same would be my guess. Ok can see the MoS2 spike.
Because on the Hemi if it is a cam or lifter failing and it is caught in time, it’s a lot simpler to replace the lifter and/or cam. If it has progressed past that point it requires a new or completely rebuilt engine with all of the metal distributed through all of the bearings and oil galleries. Might be able to take the valve covers off and see if there’s any slack in the rocker arms or less tension on certain pushrods. May be able to get the scope down in there for inspection.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2022
- Messages
- 1,128
Do you have more information to share about hemi piston slap on PAO/Esters?
My laymen's guess would be that any damage you might get from piston slap would show up as higher amounts of aluminum, not iron?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Oil brand/type has no impact on the existence of piston slap, since this is a physical phenomenon due to the pistons being a bit too small for those bores, resulting in them rocking with the skirt slapping into the wall until they get some heat into them and expand, tightening up.
I see your point. It's more of thinking ahead, UOAs can catch issues before they present, and I think that's what the case is here. Either way, this level of wear is not normal, and there is an issue somewhere, unless its somehow some form of leaching from deposits which is very very unlikely IMO.
I would concur. That's why im following up so closely on this, so others can see and learn as well if in a similar situation on one of these engines.
This is the noise in question, , Seen plenty say its piston slap, and it's done this since new on certain oils when cold, more pronounced in gear under load. Could be valvetrain noise, who knows.
Was the worst on redline 5w20, drained it after a day, that was 70k ago or so. Non existent on the valvoline grp IIIs 5w20/30s or PUP 5w20. Present, but not too loud on the M1 0w40. It definitely has changed at least for me on oil type, or maybe simply it has everything to do with the thicker visc when cold... Redline 5w20 is known to be a bit thick isn't it?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
This is also why a filter autopsy would really help, to see if there's any visible metal to match the increase in iron we are seeing.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
That doesn't sound like slap to me, slap is a diesel-like knock:
Which goes away once the engine warms up and the pistons expand.
Yeah, not at all the same noise, Has to be valvetrain clatter then..
I'll cut the filter open next OCI. It'll be soon.
My 05 4.8 sounds like that on cold start too. The weird thing is it always seems to go away under load. My old Caprice had piston slap cold too and it would get a lot worse under load.
Latest UOA at 1.5k with valvoline EPHM 0w20 below. Cut the filter open per @OVERKILL , it wasn't awful, but there was quite a bit of metal present in the pleats, and even more in the oil remaining in the bottom of the filter. There was a lot of carbon and other debris present as well. All these pics were taken at 45x on a stereo microscope.
1500 mi on this oil and filter.
1500 mi on this oil and filter.