Mobil 1 EP vs Castrol (gold) EP

ok VALVOLINE EP is out CASTROL EP is in , the engine is way happier with castrol , quiet start up smooth running and quiet idle, I am not knocking valvoline down but I think castrol is a better product.... cheers from michigan
 
What's the general rule of thumb for cold flow of PAO versus GTL? Is PAO still better?
Once you get down to the cloud point; the point where wax crystals start to form, GTL relies on PPD's to keep flowing. PAO doesn't. That's why the pour point for PAO is so insanely low. PAO has no wax, so there is nothing in the base to form crystals. However, since PAO is blended with other bases and carrier oils, those other bases and carriers may require the overall blend to have PPD's in it.

Lubes are allowed to "slip" a Winter grade in service, and PPD degradation is likely the primary reason as to why.
 
Once you get down to the cloud point; the point where wax crystals start to form, GTL relies on PPD's to keep flowing. PAO doesn't. That's why the pour point for PAO is so insanely low. PAO has no wax, so there is nothing in the base to form crystals. However, since PAO is blended with other bases and carrier oils, those other bases and carriers may require the overall blend to have PPD's in it.

Lubes are allowed to "slip" a Winter grade in service, and PPD degradation is likely the primary reason as to why.
What about ester, what benefits do esters bring to the table over Group III?
 
What about ester, what benefits do esters bring to the table over Group III?
Esters have extremely good high heat handling, but can also negatively impact seals (swell) in high doses. This is why they are often used to counteract the shrink effect PAO has. They have excellent solubility, but are also very expensive. They also don't tend to handle moisture very well, which can be problematic. This is why esters are usually used in a fractional or complimentary role with a more traditional base (Group II+/III/IV) as the primary.

IIRC, some of this is covered in the STLE article I linked in my thread on Dr. Rudnick:
 
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ok VALVOLINE EP is out CASTROL EP is in , the engine is way happier with castrol , quiet start up smooth running and quiet idle, I am not knocking valvoline down but I think castrol is a better product.... cheers from michigan
Reply back on the smooth running and quiet idle when the Castrol has the same miles on it that the Valvoline had when you dumped it.
 
Esters have extremely good high heat handling

How much better are we talking? I'm asking specifically with motorcycle engines in mind. Many motorcycle oils advertise use of esters, and charge accordingly. There are cheaper synthetic motorcycle oils that forgo esters, but I'm wondering if it's worth it to pay the extra since in my case, whole the engine is small and liquid cooled, I'm running at sustained high RPM near redline quite often.
 
How much better are we talking? I'm asking specifically with motorcycle engines in mind. Many motorcycle oils advertise use of esters, and charge accordingly. There are cheaper synthetic motorcycle oils that forgo esters, but I'm wondering if it's worth it to pay the extra since in my case, whole the engine is small and liquid cooled, I'm running at sustained high RPM near redline quite often.
Think jet turbines, that is their primary use. But, please read that STLE paper.
 
PAO is never a benefit, other than cold flow. It always needs helpers to work properly in a fully formulated lubricant.

...

So does any other oil base! Any Group III also lacks solubility and Mobil 1 even in it's 1990's PAO glory always had some Group I and ester.

Personally I love a blend of Group III/IV/V or AN...
 
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Right, so the whole point of you joining and posting the question is to “have fun” and watch the inevitable posting circus even though you admit you believe they will likely perform identically.

This is after all the intent and outcome of the thread isn’t it?
What's wrong with having fun?
 
So let's say we have a 0W-20 that's PAO based, and another 0W-20 that'd Group III based. Both oils meet the same API standard, but the PAO will allow for faster flow at the same temps than the Group III will, across the board at any temp? Or are they basically the same until the temperatures drop to the certain super low point, like -50 or something where PAO takes the lead?

At such an extreme negative temp wouldn't some form of a block heater be required?
 
Once you get down to the cloud point; the point where wax crystals start to form, GTL relies on PPD's to keep flowing. PAO doesn't. That's why the pour point for PAO is so insanely low. PAO has no wax, so there is nothing in the base to form crystals. However, since PAO is blended with other bases and carrier oils, those other bases and carriers may require the overall blend to have PPD's in it.

Lubes are allowed to "slip" a Winter grade in service, and PPD degradation is likely the primary reason as to why.

That is an excellent "dumbing down" explanation that I appreciate!
 
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