Mobil 1 EP GC update
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Mobil 1 is Group IV. Mobil 1 is Group III. Mobil 1 is Group IV. Mobil 1 is Group III. Mobil 1 is Group IV. Mobil 1 is Group III. Mobil 1 is Group IV. Mobil 1 is Group III. Mobil 1 is Group IV. Mobil 1 is Group III. Mobil 1 is Group IV. Mobil 1 is Group III.
I'm dizzy!
If Mobil 1 turns out to be Group IV, then I have another synthetic oil option....
I'm dizzy!
If Mobil 1 turns out to be Group IV, then I have another synthetic oil option....
Yeah, just thinking about it gives me a synthetic headache (i.e. one that I wouldn't have had naturally...). Of course, mine are all superior Group-IV/V synthetic headaches.
here's what I don't get. it took this lab 2-3 months to do the first sample because they are too busy then finally saying results are inconclusive. then they do this sample in a week say "98% sure that it is group 4" lol why not say 100%?
1] Mobil 1 has told me for decades of the superiority of Group IV synthetic. In contrast, Mobil 1 has not made any effort to claim that Group III is superior to Group IV.
2] At the current Mobil 1 prices I can buy Group IV/ V or Group V oils from other companies for about the same price.
3] PAO is still considered to be superior to Group III in terms of extreme cold performance.
4] If Mobil 1 is Group III then I should compare it to other Group III oils for price and performance.
5] I can buy name brand Group III synthetic oil on sale for 84% less than Mobil 1.
And there's a bull's eye for TWBG. I would add that for those cars that can make good use of its 0w-30 vis, there's no reason not to use GC instead of M1. Great GC UOAs, lower price, known Group-IV/V genetics.
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"5] I can buy name brand Group III synthetic oil on sale for 84% less than Mobil 1".
Come...On sale and WITH MAIL IN REBATE! LOL That could be most brands at one time or another throughout the year. Many loaded up at Pep Boys on M1 a year or so ago B1G1F when Pennzoil was full boat.
Fact is other than at at Walmart, M1 is usually no higher than other national brands. PP is a great deal now especially wity the MAIL IN REBATES or 5 qt jugs at Walmart. No point in BSing the truth about M1 on pricing especially using sale and MAIL IN REBATES to do so. Geezzzzz
Come...On sale and WITH MAIL IN REBATE! LOL That could be most brands at one time or another throughout the year. Many loaded up at Pep Boys on M1 a year or so ago B1G1F when Pennzoil was full boat.
Fact is other than at at Walmart, M1 is usually no higher than other national brands. PP is a great deal now especially wity the MAIL IN REBATES or 5 qt jugs at Walmart. No point in BSing the truth about M1 on pricing especially using sale and MAIL IN REBATES to do so. Geezzzzz
1] Mobil 1 has told me for decades of the superiority of Group IV synthetic. In contrast, Mobil 1 has not made any effort to claim that Group III is superior to Group IV.
Why should M1 discuss that Group III is superior to Group IV? You know for sure M1 is a GRPIII oil?
Why should M1 discuss that Group III is superior to Group IV? You know for sure M1 is a GRPIII oil?
BTW Why do you think Pennzoil is giving away PP? Because they are a nniiiccceeee company? It is because their previous synthetic, regardless of quality got buried under the dust on the stores shelving.
Their first marketing attempt with PP also appears not to have made a dent..so the blow out pricing. Great news for consumers, but no way can Pennzoil sustain it.
When PP is as much as the others, will it still be the "golden boy"? Doubt it
Their first marketing attempt with PP also appears not to have made a dent..so the blow out pricing. Great news for consumers, but no way can Pennzoil sustain it.
When PP is as much as the others, will it still be the "golden boy"? Doubt it
http://www.mobil1.jp/cts/pdt/mobil1.html Look at the PAO + hydroprcessed Mobil oils.
This doesn't tell us about U.S. Mobil 1...just that some Mobil 1 has Group III.
This doesn't tell us about U.S. Mobil 1...just that some Mobil 1 has Group III.
Quote:
1] Mobil 1 has told me for decades of the superiority of Group IV synthetic. In contrast, Mobil 1 has not made any effort to claim that Group III is superior to Group IV.
Why should M1 discuss that Group III is superior to Group IV? You know for sure M1 is a GRPIII oil?
Why Synthetic Oils Are Superior
You may have heard that synthetic oils are superior to conventional oils, that with synthetic oil cars run cleaner and more efficiently for longer? Would you like to learn why synthetic oils are superior and discover some of the benefits you can get from specifying synthetic oils for your car? If so the information below should provide answers to most of your queries.
Engine Oil Basics
Motor oil is more than just old dinosaur bones and prehistoric tree trunks. It’s the lifeblood of an engine. Motor oil keeps engine parts from wearing and reduces friction by providing a protective layer between the metal parts of an engine, and helps carry heat and impurities away from engine components. Motor oil also has to deal with the harsh operating environment inside an engine with its combination of heat, combustion by-products, chemical residues and high pressures. It’s because of this harsh operating environment that motor oil gradually ages and needs to be changed regularly. Synthetic oils typically have a far greater resistance to deterioration and therefore have far greater drain intervals.
What Is Lubricating Oil?
Motor oils are made up of selected base oils combined with performance enhancing additives. Why are additives required?
• Additives improve the original properties of base oils
• Additives impart new performance characteristics to base oils (to suit particular applications)
• Additives help extend the product life
Motor oils typically are 75-85% basestock with the balance being additives. That’s why basestock quality is such a critical contributor to the performance of the final blended product. You’ll find out more about additives below.
There Are Four Different Types of Motor Oil Base Stocks
We know that basestock composition has a significant effect on the overall performance of motor oil. There are four different types of base stock used in the motor oil market today.
Group 1 - Conventional - Mineral oil derived from crude oil
Group 2 - Hydroprocessed - Highly refined mineral oil
Group 3 – Severe hydroprocessed - Ultra refined mineral oil
Group 4 – Full synthetics (chemically derived) - Chemically built Polyalphaolefins (PAO).
As it infers Groups 1 – 3 basestocks are derived from crude oil pumped from the ground whereas Group 4 basestocks are chemically derived, most often from ethylene gas, and contain none of the contaminants present in mineral oils. Just as distilled water is pure water derived from gas so Group 4 basestocks are pure oils derived from gas.
And There Are a Variety of Additives
Additives enhance the performance of motor oil basestocks and help adjust the performance of the oil to suit its intended application. Additives are the key to unlock the performance potential of basestocks but even the best additives won’t turn bad oil into good oil.
Some common additives include:
• Viscosity Index Improvers – improve ability to handle heat and severe conditions
• Pour Point Depressants – lower oil freezing point in cold conditions
• Anti-wear Additives – protect against metal-to-metal contact
• Detergents & Dispersants – keep components clean and prevent sludging
• Oxidation Inhibitors – maintain oil stability over service intervals
• Corrosion & Rust Inhibitors – protect against the effects of condensation
• Defoamants – prevent oil foaming and cavitation
Additives work symbiotically with the base stock and are added in different proportions according to the application. Some examples are that racing oils may not require rust inhibitors but could need extra defoamants for dry sump oil systems, domestic or consumer engine oils may need special additives that don’t interfere with the operation of catalytic converters or diesel oils may require additional protection against combustion byproducts.
Let's Look at Conventional (Mineral) Oil
Conventional motor oils use base stocks created by the conventional refining of crude oil pumped from the ground. Crude oil is a complex mix of hydrocarbon compounds and a variety of sophisticated refining techniques are used to remove/reduce the amount of undesirable components such as asphalts, waxes and chemically unstable sulphur & nitrogen compounds. Conventional motor oils use conventional mineral base stocks so are usually known as Mineral oils.
Mineral base oils have performance limitations. After refining what remains is a lubricating base stock that despite the degree of chemical refinement still contains undesirable materials such as oxygen, sulphur, nitrogen compounds, trace metals and carbon residues.
There are literally thousands of compounds present in crude oil. While many of them are removed or upgraded by refining, a significant concentration of these undesirable materials remains in lubricating oil base stocks. These residual undesirable materials mean additive packs can’t operate to full effect because the additive has to compete for space with the impurities when they attempt to bond with the baseoil molecules. Consequently the molecular structure of the oil is inconsistent, limiting the performance capabilities and useful service life of the resulting blended oil.
Hydroprocessed Oil
Hydroprocessed motor oils use base stocks made by the additional refining of mineral oil. While refined to a greater extent than conventional mineral base oils, hydroprocessed base oils still have similar performance limitations due to the presence of undesirable impurities which cannot be completely removed from crude oil. Hydroprocessed motor oils use extra refined mineral base stocks.
Severe Hydroprocessed Oil
Severe hydroprocessed oils are further refined hydroprocessed oils but they still contain some undesirable impurities which cannot be completely removed. Most engine oils on the Australian market advertised as synthetic use severe hydroprocessed basestocks.
Semi-Synthetics
Semi-Synthetics use base stocks comprising conventional or hydroprocessed base oil in combination with severely hydroprocessed or synthetic (PAO) basestocks. The proportion of severely hydroprocessed or synthetic basestocks in semi-synthetic oil is a closely guarded secret, but is usually between 10% and 25%.
Synthetics
Synthetic motor oils contain a high proportion of base stocks created from pure chemicals. Since synthetic base stocks such as PAO are essentially pure chemicals themselves they avoid the performance limitations imposed by the impurities present in conventional and hydroprocessed base oils. PAO synthetic base oils are therefore pure compounds containing none of the impurities found in conventional base oils derived from crude oil, as mentioned earlier.
In addition, chemically derived synthetic base stock technology allows the base oil molecules to be designed specifically for particular lubrication applications with purpose designed features such as the exact desired viscosity, superior viscosity stay in grade capability, low volatility etc. Synthetic base stocks can also be specifically tailored to suit different additives required for different applications. Additionally because synthetic oils are ‘pure’ they contribute lower emissions and are kinder to catalytic converters. Synthetic oils can also be engineered to have less internal molecular friction allowing an engine to develop maximum power and provide best possible economy.
Synthetics can therefore be "tailored" to suit specific lubrication applications. The molecular engineering that goes into chemically derived synthetic base stocks enable a base oil to be designed for a specific purpose. For example specific base oil molecules have been designed for use in Mobil Jet Oil II (which is used by 70% of the world’s commercial jet aircraft). Similarly and very specific Mobil 1 formulations have been designed for Formula 1 racing applications. This same highly specific molecular engineering approach has been used to design the best base oil molecules for use in consumer synthetic motor oils such as Mobil 1.
Base Oils Summary
Mineral & Hydroprocessed Base Oils
• Refined from Crude Oil
• Mixture of compounds
• Include compounds poorly suited for lubrication
Chemically Derived Synthetic Base Oils
• Synthetic polymers
• Tailor made from controlled building units
• Specifically designed to suit the lubrication application
Unlike base oils derived from crude oil, synthetic base oils can be designed specifically (i.e. "tailor made") to give optimum performance in synergy with the additive compounds with which they are formulated to produce the final motor oil.
So What Does This Mean to You?
Motor oils perform differently under extremes. Under extreme driving conditions synthetic oils offer clearly superior motor oil protection and performance than that provided by mineral oil.
Severe conditions include;
• Stop-and-go driving
• Short trips
• High temperature conditions (especially modern turbo engines)
• Cold start-ups
• Competition
Severe driving conditions aren’t confined to the racetrack or rally stage. Day-to-day driving conditions with stop/start traffic, short trips and cold starts can also be severe conditions that push motor oils to their limits.
There Is a Clear Difference in Motor Oil Protection and Performance
What are the differences?
Differences under extreme conditions:
• Conventional (mineral) Motor Oils break down under extreme hot temperatures and form solids under extreme cold temperatures.
• Hydroprocessed Motor Oils and Semi-Synthetics vary depending on their composition, but generally perform better than conventional (mineral) formulas but not as well as full synthetic oils.
• Fully Synthetic Motor Oils offer the maximum protection against engine wear under extreme hot and cold temperatures and in other severe service conditions, unmatched by conventional or hydroprocessed formulas.
Fully synthetic motor oils offer the best engine protection and allow an engine to develop its maximum potential, leading to increased power and improved economy when compared to equivalent mineral oils.
How Do You Make the Best Oil?
You start with the best fully synthetic base stock chemically engineered for optimum lubrication and keep adding to it. Tailoring the additive packs allows the components of the finished oil to be optimally balanced resulting in the best formulation.
While other manufacturers buy off the shelf additive packages, Mobil 1 is formulated from over a dozen individual premium components. This component approach maximizes performance under all driving conditions, providing the highest level of engine protection available. The make up and proportions of these individual components is continually reviewed and updated to maintain the position of Mobil 1 as the best engine oil you can buy, as it has been since it’s inception in 1973. Mobil’s proven synthetic experience over more than 30 years overcomes potential problems such as seal swelling and poor solvency/detergency, which have been experienced with some other brands of synthetic oils.
Then You Run Rigorous Tests
ExxonMobil engineers put Mobil 1 through the most comprehensive tests in the industry to ensure that its performance far exceeds worldwide standards. Not just once but over many repeated cycles.
Some of these tests include:
• Cold Temperature Pumpability (Pumping Temperature Limits)
• High Temperature Stability (Sequence IIIG Oxidation Test)
• Low Oil Consumption (Noack Volatility Test)
• Fuel Economy Testing
• Extensive Performance Reserve Testing including
• Extended length engine testing
• 25,000 mile oil drain testing
• Low mileage no drain performance testing
Mobil 1 Temperature Properties
Mobil 1 Cold Temperature Properties
Mobil 1 has outstanding low temperature fluidity (it will flow at temperatures below -54°C) and allows the cold starting potential of any car to be maximized. Most engine wear occurs during the critical first seconds after start before the lubricant flows into place to prevent direct metal-on-metal contact. At all cold start temperatures synthetic oils get to the critical wear areas (camshaft & bearings) of the engine quicker than equivalent mineral grades.
Mobil 1 Hot Temperature Properties
So what value is this at high temperatures? At high temperatures the oil molecule in synthetic oils are far more stable and degenerate less. This means not only do synthetic oils maintain lubrication integrity, they continue to cool and clean engine components at constant temperatures of up to 180°C, and can handle short term temperatures in excess of 200°C.
At Bathurst in 2002 when the winning HRT Commodore was running with a blocked radiator inlet the oil temperature rose to above 200°C yet the engine not only survived in perfect condition, it won the race.
Racing - the Ultimate Test
The extremes of competition place enormous demands on an engines oil and leading teams rely on synthetic oils to give them the edge in performance and protection.
• The Formula 1 McLaren Mercedes, Ralliart WRC and Holden HRT teams use synthetic engine oil because a mineral oil simply would not work under the extremes of competition
• Only a fully synthetic oil can provide the anti-wear & high temperature protection required in competition applications
• The use of Mobil’s latest synthetic technology provides horsepower benefits in addition to exemplary engine protection and cleanliness
OEM Applications
Because synthetic baseoils can be tailored to suit specific applications and because of the consistently high quality of synthetic oils many manufacturers of high performance cars specify Mobil 1 to achieve specific requirements for performance potential, drain intervals, fuel economy and emissions compliance. Consequently Mobil 1 is the factory fill for many of the world’s finest high-performance automobiles including:
• Porsche
• HSV
• Mitsubishi EVO
• Mercedes-Benz
• Dodge Viper
• Chevrolet Corvette
• Cadillac
• Callaway
• Lotus
• Aston Martin
Other Applications
The benefits of Mobil’s synthetic expertise extend further than engine oils. The same synthetic technology is applied to gearbox, differential/final drive assemblies and wheel bearing and chassis grease (Mobil SHC series).
Which Synthetic Should I Use?
Always consult manufacturer specifications to determine which type of oil should be used. The Mobil Technical Response (Aust: 03 9205 3222 or freecall 1800 033 863, NZ: freecall 0800 732 275) Line will be able to assist you with application and usage information. The condition of the machinery will also determine to some extent which oil to use.
http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/LCW/Audiences/Synthetic_V_Mineral.asp
TL
Irrespective of the mail-in rebates, at least where I am (Gulf Coast), M1 is substantially higher, at normal marked prices, than either GC or the PP line. M1 is running at almost $7 per quart, GC at just below $6, and PP anywhere from $6 to $4, again, regular shelf prices. Those aren't huge, monster differences, but they're real nonetheless. And when good old Supertech G-III is sitting down there in the "under $3" category, suddenly it seems pretty "out there" for M1 to be $7 per quart if it's really the same class of stuff.
Why don't you run that question by Terry. You might be surprised by the answer.
"Regular" M1 is near $7 a qt? Come on..How much is EP? $10?
BTW I have heard Terry thinks highly of PP.
Here in So Cal pricing seems to be different on M1. If I get time I will hit up Walmart,Pep Boys, Napa and AutoZone
BTW I have heard Terry thinks highly of PP.
Here in So Cal pricing seems to be different on M1. If I get time I will hit up Walmart,Pep Boys, Napa and AutoZone
Mobil 1 EP is $6.22 / quart in my area.... $6.84 including tax.
Amsoil is now quite cost effective.
Redline at $8.45 / quart including shipping is not much more expensive than Mobil 1 , IMHO.
Pennzoil Platinum on sale after Rebate is very hard to resist.
Shell Rotella 5W-40 is also quite good value.
Amsoil is now quite cost effective.
Redline at $8.45 / quart including shipping is not much more expensive than Mobil 1 , IMHO.
Pennzoil Platinum on sale after Rebate is very hard to resist.
Shell Rotella 5W-40 is also quite good value.
I check the oil section of general places, like WM when I visit. I also drop by various AZs or other parts places with some frequency. No, here the M1, IIRC is in the high $6 (near $7) range. I haven't bothered to specifically look at EP for a while. I'll be at WM for some other stuff tomorrow. I'll double check those numbers and confirm. No, I've never seen EP that high when I have looked.
Weren't you the guy that claimed Mobil never used sodium in there add pack?
In short, you're going to have to do a lot better than this. Why should I believe you and believe Tom is being less than honest? You have to regain some credibilty with me before I would ever trust you. Micron plused molecules not withstanding.
The funniest part of this post is that you couldn't possibly ever comprehend the depth of thought that is being undertaken here, but through the power of the internet, you can still link to it with a simple google search.
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