Mobil 1 controversy on wikipedia.org

[Z_ombie]

Way too many quotes @.@

 

[farrarfan1]

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Once again this proves how far rumors based on speculation, hearsay evidence and mass hysteria can spread on the internet.

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Hearsay? Are you talking about testing done to concluded that Mobil 1 is now an group III blended synthetic oil?

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You mean the testing on 2 grades of Mobil 1 Extended Performance? Or the testing done on all grades of M1? Oh wait noone tested all grades of M1, just 2 samples of EP.

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There would not be an mass cause of hysteria if Mobil did not try and take Castrol to court because of their group III synthetic. Also I could be wrong about this. But is there going to be more testing done on Mobil 1. The belief is that Delvac one and 0W-40 are the only PAO based ones left in the line up at this time of course.

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I don't know if anymore testing is planned or not.Every grade of M1 might very well be Group 1 for all I know.I don't have the training or access to the data to determine that. I do question taking a sample of 2 and extrapolating that to mean every grade has switched to Group 3.Especially by people who aren't trained in the field and are just repeating what others say.

 

[tenderloin]

BTW Dave I seldom use M1. I have enough green GC that I sold over 50 qt's of the stuff to fellow BITOG and still have a large stash. I have also sold excess Havoline sythetic and PP...over 75 qt's to BITOG posters..and still have more...so you can see I am not just a M1 person...although I loaded up on M1 at Pep Boys buy 3 get three free from a year or so ago. Also added a bit at the $4 plus change Target store pricing..but probably will never get around to using it. My work vehicles get TropArtic syn blend that I bought at Dollar Tree..

I buy and use them all! LOL

 

[farrarfan1]

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You mean the testing on 2 grades of Mobil 1 Extended Performance? Or the testing done on all grades of Mobil 1? Oh wait noone tested all grades of Mobil 1, just 2 samples of EP.

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That's THREE grades from batches spanning a TWO YEAR period. The odds of that being an anomaly are astronomical.

Do a search.

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If memory serves TomNJ sampled Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 and Mobil 1 15W50. He did no other tests of Mobil 1 grades. If that isn't correct I apologize.

 

[dave1251]

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BTW Dave I seldom use M1. I have enough green GC that I sold over 50 qt's of the stuff. I have also sold excess Havoline and PP...over 75 qt's so not a M1 person...although I loaded up on Pep Boys buy 3 get three free from a year or so ago. Also added a bit at the $4 plus change Target store pricing..but probably will never get around to using it. My work vehicles get TropArtic syn blend that I bought at Dollar Tree..

I buy and use them all! LOL

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Good consumer price buying would be my comment. I use pennzoil when I can get it for 69 cents from Pepboys. If I can't wait. I go for 59 cent Chevron from Kragen. I can hoard oil. Due to the fact that I live in an 1,000 dollar a month apartment two bedroom and I have an two year old running around.

 

[Z_ombie]

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Once again this proves how far rumors based on speculation, hearsay evidence and mass hysteria can spread on the internet.

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Hearsay? Are you talking about testing done to concluded that Mobil 1 is now an group III blended synthetic oil?

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You mean the testing on 2 grades of Mobil 1 Extended Performance? Or the testing done on all grades of M1? Oh wait noone tested all grades of M1, just 2 samples of EP.

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There would not be an mass cause of hysteria if Mobil did not try and take Castrol to court because of their group III synthetic. Also I could be wrong about this. But is there going to be more testing done on Mobil 1. The belief is that Delvac one and 0W-40 are the only PAO based ones left in the line up at this time of course.

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I don't know if anymore testing is planned or not.Every grade of M1 might very well be Group 1 for all I know.I don't have the training or access to the data to determine that. I do question taking a sample of 2 and extrapolating that to mean every grade has switched to Group 3.Especially by people who aren't trained in the field and are just repeating what others say.

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Lets say it is only those 2 grades, they STILL insist that their oil is genuine synthetic and the best on the planet. They deny G3 content. Not informing the consumer is bad business IMO. And if 2 grades are its likely that almost the entire lineup is G3 as well. But lets not focus on the basestock content, that's not what makes an oil excellent in the performance category. The additives do the work, lets remember that its performance that counts, not how they get there.

 

[427Z06]

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Would one of you gentlemen, dave1251 or Z ombie please post a link to some of these poor used oil analysis produced by Mobil 1? Could you also please provide your detailed analysis that eliminates all the variables and directly attributes the poor used oil analysis to Mobil 1's poor performance? Thank you in advance.

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Instead of asking OTHER people to prove or disprove a position, why don't YOU do some data analysis? Pick out all the used oil analysis from the past two years that you believe are a fair comparison between M1 and an equivalent brand.

When people claimed that 5w30 conventionals usually sheered down to a 5w20 grade, that's exactly what I did to verify or nullify their claim.

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Because I'm not the one making the unsubstantiated claims. If I did make such a claim and was asked to provide something to back that claim up I would have it available.

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I believe it's more of a shared responsibility. Imagine the case where people just show up and ask for people to "prove" things to them instead of doing some homework on their own.

Further, M1's elevated Fe level has become such a signature trait to those who read a lot of the used oil analysis posted here that's it's even called....well...M1's Fe signature. Even people who have an undying love of all things from EM, like buster, will admit this.

And for the final pièce de résistance, search for Terry's comment. Little nuggets of gold.

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People are asked every day in court to provide evidence to support their claims. Just because someone says it doesn't make it a fact. I think if someone states something as a fact and they are asked to support it with some type of evidence to support their claim it is their responsibility to provide it. They can either provide the evidence or decline and rest on what they "believe". You'll note I've never claimed Mobil 1 is the best oil available. If I did I would have some type of evidence to support it.

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Well then...it's your belief against their belief. Neither belief is any more valid than the other until there's supporting evidence.

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You're exactly right. But when one side publicly proclaims something they should have the evidence to back it up or the expertise in the field to obtain it.

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There's evidence in the used oil analysis section, but if BOTH sides refuse to do the work and post it, both sides can just go on believing whatever they want. Like I mentioned before, it's a shared responsibility.

Think of the people who do or finance filter tests, GC test, Particle Counts, etc. They put forth the cash and/or effort to contribute to the community. Can't expect everyone else to prove or disprove your beliefs for you.

 

[farrarfan1]

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BTW Dave I seldom use M1. I have enough green GC that I sold over 50 qt's of the stuff. I have also sold excess Havoline and PP...over 75 qt's so not a M1 person...although I loaded up on Pep Boys buy 3 get three free from a year or so ago. Also added a bit at the $4 plus change Target store pricing..but probably will never get around to using it. My work vehicles get TropArtic syn blend that I bought at Dollar Tree..

I buy and use them all! LOL

---

Good consumer price buying would be my comment. I use pennzoil when I can get it for 69 cents from Pepboys. If I can't wait. I go for 59 cent Chevron from Kragen. I can hoard oil. Due to the fact that I live in an 1,000 dollar a month apartment two bedroom and I have an two year old running around.

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That I can agree with. The Maxlife synthetic in my Blazer is still from the Auto Zone clearance from a couple of years ago. The M1 in my wifes's van cost me $21 and some change at WM. It costs more to fill it up with gas. Resest the OLM and check it and the level every weekend and forget about it. Next time you're in Indiiana I'll let you buy me a beer.

 

[KW]

Wow you guys sure are good at posting with quotes!

If Mobil 1 really is using GIII instead of PAO in their product, they are out. Out for the same reasons I stayed away from Syntec all these years. False advertsing.

 

[farrarfan1]

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Would one of you gentlemen, dave1251 or Z ombie please post a link to some of these poor used oil analysis produced by Mobil 1? Could you also please provide your detailed analysis that eliminates all the variables and directly attributes the poor used oil analysis to Mobil 1's poor performance? Thank you in advance.

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Instead of asking OTHER people to prove or disprove a position, why don't YOU do some data analysis? Pick out all the used oil analysis from the past two years that you believe are a fair comparison between M1 and an equivalent brand.

When people claimed that 5w30 conventionals usually sheered down to a 5w20 grade, that's exactly what I did to verify or nullify their claim.

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Because I'm not the one making the unsubstantiated claims. If I did make such a claim and was asked to provide something to back that claim up I would have it available.

---

I believe it's more of a shared responsibility. Imagine the case where people just show up and ask for people to "prove" things to them instead of doing some homework on their own.

Further, M1's elevated Fe level has become such a signature trait to those who read a lot of the used oil analysis posted here that's it's even called....well...M1's Fe signature. Even people who have an undying love of all things from EM, like buster, will admit this.

And for the final pièce de résistance, search for Terry's comment. Little nuggets of gold.

---

People are asked every day in court to provide evidence to support their claims. Just because someone says it doesn't make it a fact. I think if someone states something as a fact and they are asked to support it with some type of evidence to support their claim it is their responsibility to provide it. They can either provide the evidence or decline and rest on what they "believe". You'll note I've never claimed Mobil 1 is the best oil available. If I did I would have some type of evidence to support it.

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Well then...it's your belief against their belief. Neither belief is any more valid than the other until there's supporting evidence.

---

You're exactly right. But when one side publicly proclaims something they should have the evidence to back it up or the expertise in the field to obtain it.

---

There's evidence in the used oil analysis section, but if BOTH sides refuse to do the work and post it, both sides can just go on believing whatever they want. Like I mentioned before, it's a shared responsibility.

Think of the people who do or finance filter tests, GC test, Particle Counts, etc. They put forth the cash and/or effort to contribute to the community. Can't expect everyone else to prove or disprove your beliefs for you.

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I think this is were we are on different frequencies. I'm not asking anyone to prove my beliefs or. I'm asking them to prove theirs or at the very least offer something.

 

[427Z06]

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You mean the testing on 2 grades of Mobil 1 Extended Performance? Or the testing done on all grades of Mobil 1? Oh wait noone tested all grades of Mobil 1, just 2 samples of EP.

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That's THREE grades from batches spanning a TWO YEAR period. The odds of that being an anomaly are astronomical.

Do a search.

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If memory serves TomNJ sampled Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 and Mobil 1 15W50. He did no other tests of Mobil 1 grades. If that isn't correct I apologize.

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http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=749606
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...0212#Post750212
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...0513#Post750513

With repeat runs to verify:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...0621#Post750621

 

[427Z06]

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Would one of you gentlemen, dave1251 or Z ombie please post a link to some of these poor used oil analysis produced by Mobil 1? Could you also please provide your detailed analysis that eliminates all the variables and directly attributes the poor used oil analysis to Mobil 1's poor performance? Thank you in advance.

---

Instead of asking OTHER people to prove or disprove a position, why don't YOU do some data analysis? Pick out all the used oil analysis from the past two years that you believe are a fair comparison between M1 and an equivalent brand.

When people claimed that 5w30 conventionals usually sheered down to a 5w20 grade, that's exactly what I did to verify or nullify their claim.

---

Because I'm not the one making the unsubstantiated claims. If I did make such a claim and was asked to provide something to back that claim up I would have it available.

---

I believe it's more of a shared responsibility. Imagine the case where people just show up and ask for people to "prove" things to them instead of doing some homework on their own.

Further, M1's elevated Fe level has become such a signature trait to those who read a lot of the used oil analysis posted here that's it's even called....well...M1's Fe signature. Even people who have an undying love of all things from EM, like buster, will admit this.

And for the final pièce de résistance, search for Terry's comment. Little nuggets of gold.

---

People are asked every day in court to provide evidence to support their claims. Just because someone says it doesn't make it a fact. I think if someone states something as a fact and they are asked to support it with some type of evidence to support their claim it is their responsibility to provide it. They can either provide the evidence or decline and rest on what they "believe". You'll note I've never claimed Mobil 1 is the best oil available. If I did I would have some type of evidence to support it.

---

Well then...it's your belief against their belief. Neither belief is any more valid than the other until there's supporting evidence.

---

You're exactly right. But when one side publicly proclaims something they should have the evidence to back it up or the expertise in the field to obtain it.

---

There's evidence in the used oil analysis section, but if BOTH sides refuse to do the work and post it, both sides can just go on believing whatever they want. Like I mentioned before, it's a shared responsibility.

Think of the people who do or finance filter tests, GC test, Particle Counts, etc. They put forth the cash and/or effort to contribute to the community. Can't expect everyone else to prove or disprove your beliefs for you.

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I think this is were we are on different frequencies. I'm not asking anyone to prove my beliefs or. I'm asking them to prove theirs or at the very least offer something.

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All I'm saying is that it's equally fair for someone to ask you to support your beliefs with evidence. Just as it's equally fair for you to ask them to support their beliefs with evidence.

Peace out.

 

[Auto-Union]

I just edited the history section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobil#Mobil

 

[Gary Allan]

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I think this is were we are on different frequencies. I'm not asking anyone to prove my beliefs or. I'm asking them to prove theirs or at the very least offer something.



All I'm saying is that it's equally fair for someone to ask you to support your beliefs with evidence. Just as it's equally fair for you to ask them to support their beliefs with evidence.

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M.R. Ducks
M.R. Not
O.S.A.R.
C.M. Wangs
L.I.B
M.R. Ducks

 

[farrarfan1]

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I think this is were we are on different frequencies. I'm not asking anyone to prove my beliefs or. I'm asking them to prove theirs or at the very least offer something.



All I'm saying is that it's equally fair for someone to ask you to support your beliefs with evidence. Just as it's equally fair for you to ask them to support their beliefs with evidence.

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M.R. Ducks
M.R. Not
O.S.A.R.
C.M. Wangs
L.I.B
M.R. Ducks

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Ah the old 2 rednecks talking about ducks. A classic.

 

[farrarfan1]

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You mean the testing on 2 grades of Mobil 1 Extended Performance? Or the testing done on all grades of Mobil 1? Oh wait noone tested all grades of Mobil 1, just 2 samples of EP.

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That's THREE grades from batches spanning a TWO YEAR period. The odds of that being an anomaly are astronomical.

Do a search.

---

If memory serves TomNJ sampled Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 and Mobil 1 15W50. He did no other tests of Mobil 1 grades. If that isn't correct I apologize.

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http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=749606
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...0212#Post750212
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...0513#Post750513

With repeat runs to verify:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...0621#Post750621

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I have been referring to the 2 most recent tests conducted by TomNJ on the 5W30 and 15W50 EP. I had forgot the test from 04, but it was also on the EP line.

 

[G-MAN]

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I just edited the history section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobil#Mobil

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If you wrote "Mobil 1 was introduced in 1974," that's inaccurate.

 

[Z_ombie]

The controversy section of the Wiki page disappeared AGAIN!

 

[Gary Allan]

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I think this is were we are on different frequencies. I'm not asking anyone to prove my beliefs or. I'm asking them to prove theirs or at the very least offer something.



All I'm saying is that it's equally fair for someone to ask you to support your beliefs with evidence. Just as it's equally fair for you to ask them to support their beliefs with evidence.

---

M.R. Ducks
M.R. Not
O.S.A.R.
C.M. Wangs
L.I.B
M.R. Ducks

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Ah the old 2 rednecks talking about ducks. A classic.

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Just two good old boys debating the validity of an assertion and one of them providing sound evidence

 

[Gary Allan]

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The controversy section of the Wiki page disappeared AGAIN!

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Maybe there's a "Spy vs. Spy" thing going on. Last time you couldn't see it with firefox ..now maybe you can't see it with IE

It's there now.

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Controversy
In 2006, the results of a gas chromatography test on Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 were posted by an industry expert on the popular motor oil discussion website BITOG. It showed the oil to be primarily composed of a less expensive, Group III processed mineral oil. Until this time, Mobil 1 was believed to be a true synthetic, utilizing a Group IV (PAO) basestock. The release of this information has led to a backlash against ExxonMobil's lubricant products in many automotive communities. Ironically, in 1999, Mobil fought Castrol's change in formulation to a Group III basestock in motor oils being marketed as fully synthetic. Mobil claimed that Castrol was decieving their customer base, while degrading their products. The National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus eventually ruled that Castrol could continue to market their Syntec line as a fully synthetic motor oil. ExxonMobil currently refuses to comment on the primary basestock of their Mobil 1 series of oils. This has only added further confusion over the exact definition of the term "synthetic oil."

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Internet poltergeist