Mobil 1 0w40 European Oil......the new 5w30?

Just curious what you put in your Kubota? My Mercedes turbodiesel loves 0w40 from Castrol, Valvoline, and Mobil 1.
In summer, 15w-40, in winter, 5w-40, whatever is on sale. Rotella, Delo, etc. The previous owner of our house left a good stash of Kubota OEM fluids in the garage when he left so I have been using those as well. If it weren't a diesel, it would get M1 (or any other brand) 0w-40 as well.
 
As a general rule of thumb, most people should stick with whatever oil is recommended for their car. (Don't get started with CAFE etc. 0W-20 is the current standard for the new European cars).

As another general rule of thumb, you want to run the lowest viscosity recommended for your car. It will give you the highest engine response, best fuel economy, and protect better against wear in a cold engine, in especially hybrid cars that are becoming the norm, in which warm-ups take a very long time because of the constant switch between the electric motor and the internal-combustion engine. However, if you drive at extreme speeds and/or loads or do towing, you should consider raising the viscosity to protect better against wear.

Disadvantages of M1 FS 0W-40 (over thinner oils):
  • Sluggish engine response at low throttle
  • Worse fuel economy
  • Increased warm-up time over especially 0W-20 (more so over 0W-16)
  • Possibly increased wear over 0W-20 in a cold engine, especially in hybrid cars
  • You are unlikely to notice any decrease in the wear metals in the UOAs
  • Outdated high-calcium current formula will increase possible LSPI events in TGDI engines
  • May void the drivetrain warranty
Advantages of M1 FS 0W-40:
  • It may help reduce oil consumption in a unhealthy engine
  • API Group V Polyol ester (POE) found in the M1 European oils will help remove carbon deposits and clean the engine if you need it
  • Possibly lower wear in extreme high-speed driving and/or loads or towing
  • It may help extend the oil-drain interval (OCI) because of the high initial TBN and API Group IV PAO & Group V POE found in the base oil
If your car specs an ILSAC 5W-30, you can't go wrong with a dexos1 Gen 2 5W-30 or a soon-to-be-available dexos1 Gen 3 5W-30.
 
At 233,000 miles, my Tacoma has had only some flavor of M1 in the crankcase since I bought the truck new and did the first oil change at 3000 miles. I started with vanilla M1 5W-30 and used that for a while, used the old Truck & SUV formula for a while, then switched to exclusively the M1-EP 5W-30 or 10W-30 at around 70,000 miles. I experimented with some longer intervals, taking it out to 13-14,000 miles a couple of times, but the UOAs didn't look too good (I posted here). So, I just change it every 10,000 miles these days. It works out to be about every 6 months, possibly a bit longer.

I've thought briefly about trying the M1 0W-40, but, since my engine doesn't use any oil, or run any differently than it ever has, I can't think of a good reason to switch.

And, since I have never had so much as a check engine light, and my truck has never failed emissions, I hesitate to switch to something that would have more sulfated ash. Though I know that there's likely no chance of fouling a cat or O2 sensor, because it's not using any oil.
 
As a general rule of thumb, most people should stick with whatever oil is recommended for their car. (Don't get started with CAFE etc. 0W-20 is the current standard for the new European cars).

As another general rule of thumb, you want to run the lowest viscosity recommended for your car. It will give you the highest engine response, best fuel economy, and protect better against wear in a cold engine, in especially hybrid cars that are becoming the norm, in which warm-ups take a very long time because of the constant switch between the electric motor and the internal-combustion engine. However, if you drive at extreme speeds and/or loads or do towing, you should consider raising the viscosity to protect better against wear.

Disadvantages of M1 FS 0W-40 (over thinner oils):
  • Sluggish engine response at low throttle
  • Worse fuel economy
  • Increased warm-up time over especially 0W-20 (more so over 0W-16)
  • Possibly increased wear over 0W-20 in a cold engine, especially in hybrid cars
  • You are unlikely to notice any decrease in the wear metals in the UOAs
  • Outdated high-calcium current formula will increase possible LSPI events in TGDI engines
  • May void the drivetrain warranty
Advantages of M1 FS 0W-40:
  • It may help reduce oil consumption in a unhealthy engine
  • API Group V Polyol ester (POE) found in the M1 European oils will help remove carbon deposits and clean the engine if you need it
  • Possibly lower wear in extreme high-speed driving and/or loads or towing
  • It may help extend the oil-drain interval (OCI) because of the high initial TBN and API Group IV PAO & Group V POE found in the base oil
If your car specs an ILSAC 5W-30, you can't go wrong with a dexos1 Gen 2 5W-30 or a soon-to-be-available dexos1 Gen 3 5W-30.

Your reply can fit well in an internet article that wants to send crude messages for the masses because they don't know better (like change your oil every 3k, or don't change at least 10k miles, or check your battery every month, or you need winter tires of you get snow) and other 1- size-fits-all statements. Reality is so much different. Every climate, driving pattern, terrain, engine design, and many other factors are so different than the next. For instant, many engines shear oil in just few hundred miles (long timing chains), which makes 40 weight oil turns to a perfectly good 30 weight oil for the reminder of the OCI. Just an example making your list useless in the grand scheme of things. You're basically painting Xw40 oil useless unless the manual swears " .. for God sake use Xw40 oil..". While %90 of engines (new or old) permits use of oils according to ambient temp.
Pic down below if from my Nissan factory service manual (notice the 20w50?)
 

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As a general rule of thumb, most people should stick with whatever oil is recommended for their car. (Don't get started with CAFE etc. 0W-20 is the current standard for the new European cars).

As another general rule of thumb, you want to run the lowest viscosity recommended for your car. It will give you the highest engine response, best fuel economy, and protect better against wear in a cold engine, in especially hybrid cars that are becoming the norm, in which warm-ups take a very long time because of the constant switch between the electric motor and the internal-combustion engine. However, if you drive at extreme speeds and/or loads or do towing, you should consider raising the viscosity to protect better against wear.

Disadvantages of M1 FS 0W-40 (over thinner oils):
  • Sluggish engine response at low throttle
  • Worse fuel economy
  • Increased warm-up time over especially 0W-20 (more so over 0W-16)
  • Possibly increased wear over 0W-20 in a cold engine, especially in hybrid cars
  • You are unlikely to notice any decrease in the wear metals in the UOAs
  • Outdated high-calcium current formula will increase possible LSPI events in TGDI engines
  • May void the drivetrain warranty
Advantages of M1 FS 0W-40:
  • It may help reduce oil consumption in a unhealthy engine
  • API Group V Polyol ester (POE) found in the M1 European oils will help remove carbon deposits and clean the engine if you need it
  • Possibly lower wear in extreme high-speed driving and/or loads or towing
  • It may help extend the oil-drain interval (OCI) because of the high initial TBN and API Group IV PAO & Group V POE found in the base oil
If your car specs an ILSAC 5W-30, you can't go wrong with a dexos1 Gen 2 5W-30 or a soon-to-be-available dexos1 Gen 3 5W-30.
It is not. In Europe they are all still HTHS 3.5.
In the US manuals still state heavy grade option. Actually Mercedes specifically states that 0W20 should be used if fuel economy is priority.
MB229.51 is still listed. In Europe actually that is what engines run on.
So yes, it is CAFE.
 
Your reply can fit well in an internet article that wants to send crude messages for the masses because they don't know better (like change your oil every 3k, or don't change at least 10k miles, or check your battery every month, or you need winter tires of you get snow) and other 1- size-fits-all statements. Reality is so much different. Every climate, driving pattern, terrain, engine design, and many other factors are so different than the next. For instant, many engines shear oil in just few hundred miles (long timing chains), which makes 40 weight oil turns to a perfectly good 30 weight oil for the reminder of the OCI. Just an example making your list useless in the grand scheme of things. You're basically painting Xw40 oil useless unless the manual swears " .. for God sake use Xw40 oil..". While %90 of engines (new or old) permits use of oils according to ambient temp.
Pic down below if from my Nissan factory service manual (notice the 20w50?)

screenshot_20201117-135033_adobe-acrobat-jpg.36220
That oil chart looks very 1980s. It reminds me the oil chart of my 1985 Toyota Corolla I used to have. That car ran anything from 0W-20 to 15W-40 with no issues. I certainly noticed significant improvement in fuel economy when going down from 10W-40 (even more so from 15W-40) to 10W-30, and 0W-20 probably made it even better. In any case now, I get 75 mpg with my 2021 Toyota Prius Prime and I laugh at the fuel-economy numbers around 30 mpg—and not to mention those of pickup trucks' and classic cars with single-digit mpgs—although you can always include another digit after the decimal point. 20W-40 and 20W-50 are still very popular grades in Mexico, as they can be made from API Group I dino base oil. You cannot find any oil made from API Group I dino base oil in the US anymore—again, that was a 1980s thing here. We need to keep up with the modern times. Every year new automation technology and new engine/motor technologies are being introduced—self-driving cars will be widespread in a matter of years. California will ban the internal-combustion engine in new cars in 2035. The UK is banning the internal-combustion engine in new cars in 2035 as well, and the rest of the Europe will do so around the same time—if not earlier. This doesn't mean that we won't still be obsessed with the engine-oil selection for our "classic cars" in 2035.

GafqxTEgBqLBdeloRxHKEyvnMRhOpJvwy3cUsVyhqwPawrZB1JxlKkdvus5L_xtHaNfsSkVSOpHYf6wph7zO4ldCtu4eWrUQWIyP3APkeBHKcnIThHullrr_Hj5Dkac5C0pxvvZB9ZWxJe9ErXlOHRbZQvi1ISK7l0D1Euli02Mv2ML2Okz_HAKuwazYCiv82rcq--BSfsONFmuNO25hhLaQBLYXls4JNDep7z4NRN7PrMjz20T7iQFnXSgR6AH7TMlgLljtlLodktoW6GzGJ9ndaKAAihj9yknik1s0DqwyeJgCwgUzvUy0f0eVnU9yvCMhwuUgW7SX8dufrf3M0vKetIQ3XCsEc46l9f8hyyR5gvRIsuOmRCrj95hsdaWqMuBQfOuzdY6wQUJqJCRYpOzJTIl29VND3aFi8hI4_5xM8PlKUW0ZDjfsZM-AwMjlo14Px9KjUbcMuFls4Rj6Cn7b-gouWxf-SJsJ1eHzuZCNYzK-S5cCW_wokg61O0V27OQozRcDHYip8DlcsUUSbUMJVFRWLPbs-bxNLtWtTE0xUQxgbuR5uBAfOp0zZ1qm0mspFuhR7njT6QQarYqsBI2rIsU8Epx0McP91Zhu3lN8X8Wa976nHg59GGbLIv3UEe5Jf0LpmwBeK5IN66UQgSFlZviwNgZcfPZ4j0HUstnB7Bp5C2yc7Xpig8boKQ=w3840-h2160-no
 
That oil chart looks very 1980s. It reminds me the oil chart of my 1985 Toyota Corolla I used to have. That car ran anything from 0W-20 to 15W-40 with no issues. I certainly noticed significant improvement in fuel economy when going down from 10W-40 (even more so from 15W-40) to 10W-30, and 0W-20 probably made it even better. In any case now, I get 75 mpg with my 2021 Toyota Prius Prime and I laugh at the fuel-economy numbers around 30 mpg—and not to mention those of pickup trucks' and classic cars with single-digit mpgs—although you can always include another digit after the decimal point. 20W-40 and 20W-50 are still very popular grades in Mexico, as they can be made from API Group I dino base oil. You cannot find any oil made from API Group I dino base oil in the US anymore—again, that was a 1980s thing here. We need to keep up with the modern times. Every year new automation technology and new engine/motor technologies are being introduced—self-driving cars will be widespread in a matter of years. California will ban the internal-combustion engine in new cars in 2035. The UK is banning the internal-combustion engine in new cars in 2035 as well, and the rest of the Europe will do so around the same time—if not earlier. This doesn't mean that we won't still be obsessed with the engine-oil selection for our "classic cars" in 2035.

GafqxTEgBqLBdeloRxHKEyvnMRhOpJvwy3cUsVyhqwPawrZB1JxlKkdvus5L_xtHaNfsSkVSOpHYf6wph7zO4ldCtu4eWrUQWIyP3APkeBHKcnIThHullrr_Hj5Dkac5C0pxvvZB9ZWxJe9ErXlOHRbZQvi1ISK7l0D1Euli02Mv2ML2Okz_HAKuwazYCiv82rcq--BSfsONFmuNO25hhLaQBLYXls4JNDep7z4NRN7PrMjz20T7iQFnXSgR6AH7TMlgLljtlLodktoW6GzGJ9ndaKAAihj9yknik1s0DqwyeJgCwgUzvUy0f0eVnU9yvCMhwuUgW7SX8dufrf3M0vKetIQ3XCsEc46l9f8hyyR5gvRIsuOmRCrj95hsdaWqMuBQfOuzdY6wQUJqJCRYpOzJTIl29VND3aFi8hI4_5xM8PlKUW0ZDjfsZM-AwMjlo14Px9KjUbcMuFls4Rj6Cn7b-gouWxf-SJsJ1eHzuZCNYzK-S5cCW_wokg61O0V27OQozRcDHYip8DlcsUUSbUMJVFRWLPbs-bxNLtWtTE0xUQxgbuR5uBAfOp0zZ1qm0mspFuhR7njT6QQarYqsBI2rIsU8Epx0McP91Zhu3lN8X8Wa976nHg59GGbLIv3UEe5Jf0LpmwBeK5IN66UQgSFlZviwNgZcfPZ4j0HUstnB7Bp5C2yc7Xpig8boKQ=w3840-h2160-no
LOL. That is not how politics work.
I would not hold my breath on this one.
 
I wouldn't doubt the sincerity of California to follow through with it.

Of course, there will be exceptions. And lawsuits.

I think they'd be better off banning ICE in urban areas with smog issues such as LA. I have a hard time seeing how full electrification will work in far flung places like Needles and Yreka.
 
I *do* use Mobil-1 0w-40 in my '03 SS 6.0L. Since doing so, and... not to be taken as any proof, mind you...

Oil drains are *disgusting*. (Cleaning, maybe?) I annually clean my MAF and intake throttle body. There are far less deposits in and behind the butterfly. Anymore, it just wipes completely clean with TB Kleen on a blue towel.

I don't notice any MPG hit. Gets the same average 16.4 MPG if I ran Mobil-1 5w-30 EP w/Dexos certification or Mobil-1 0w-4 Eurocar FS.

Manual calls for a Corvette material spec. 30 or 40 weight depending on driving conditions. She's a push rod Gen. III LS based mill. Not at all that sophisticated. If really hot, if towing, if street rodding or racing...drop in the 40 weight. Just lazily highway driving, the 30 weight is fine all the time.

Unless you can rip up a highway ramp and merge at 90mph, you'll get run over down here. So I just run Mobil-1 Euro 0w-40 FS all the time.

She's catalyst deleted, post catalyst O² sensor "tuned" to ignore. No emissions to worry about. (The sensors are still there and report appropriately, the ECU just doesn't care about them)

So in this case, yes... though the manual green lights a 40, I always run 40 in the Mobil-1. It hasn't shaken up anything but the goo stuck up all inside. No idea what previous owner and her first 164k miles were all about, but I *feel* I'm treating her right.

After her valve gasket swap, more Mobil-1 0w-40 FS Euro and a spin on Wix XP after an idle run to flush/catch any gunk that may have fallen into the engine when I opened her up. ^.^

20210418_205007.jpg
 
The HEMI infers viscosity from oil pressure based on temperature. If that's out of whack it sets a code. This, as I noted, only appears to be an issue if somebody really goes to town deviating from spec (like running 15w-40) or they are in a location where it gets extremely cold.

As to your other point, this is the problem with the "butt dyno".

The difference in visc at operating between a 5w-20 and 5w-30 is minuscule.

Looking at Pennzoil Platinum:
5w-20: 8.46cSt @ 100C, 45.34cSt @ 40C
5w-30: 10.25cSt @ 100C, 55.2cSt @ 40C

At operating temperature you are off by 2.2cSt.

At only 10C cooler, your 5w-20 is 10.56cSt (90C), heavier than the 5w-30 at 100C.
At only 10C warmer, your 5w-30 is 8.44cSt (110C), thinner than the 5w-20 at 100C.

So, a little more love on the pedal to drive up temperature and your 5w-30 is now thinner than your 5w-20. It's a cooler day? Your 5w-20 is now heavier than your 5w-30 was on a hotter day.

Engines and their systems are simply not that sensitive to viscosity, they can't be! Your VVT would completely crap the bed on a cold start if it can't handle a 2cSt difference at operating temperature. At 10C, your 5w-20 is 186cSt, 22x heavier that at operating temperature!

This is the problem with measures driven by emotion and perception rather than actual scientific data. It's very easy to "feel" something that isn't there when you change a variable and expect something. My 6.4L has more tip-in than my 5.7L, not because it's on a heavier oil, but because it makes almost 100HP more, has a significantly different camshaft profile and has completely different programming.

If you have the capability, track your oil temperature. You can calculate operating viscosity from that using the oil data sheet values for what you are running.

For example, -18C, my oil temp in the Jeep was 71C:
View attachment 36071

This means operating viscosity was 26.69cSt, double what it is at 100C. My VCT and MDS both worked normally, despite that fact.
That is the best post I've seen on here in a long long time.

Thank you.

Agree that the owner manuals' recommendations are "for the masses". We should expect more from members...we have our experts here, but compared to most people out there, WE should be experts in comparison. Blindly following the OM, unless it is written purely by the engineers, is not necessarily what's best for longevity.
 
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