Mixing Motul 300V 5W30 and 15W50

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You have no frame of reference for what you espouse. I have been around here since 2006, when Gary Allen was my initial Amsoil rep. Cheers big boy!
That is sort of generic which part of my reply wasnt understood?
from 2006 eh you should know the answer? or just coming back to troll with new account?
 

TRDTundra

Thread starter
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If I posted
Thick vs thin oil discuss for hypothetical application i wont reveal.
I'd get roasted.. just saying.. this thread isnt far off from that.
we have a search feature that actually works now. might want to go reread some of the previous threads about mixing oils.
the answer is no one knows for certain except that they may not perform as well as not mixing.
Since the additive packages can be slightly or vastly different.

Which is why I was specific in asking about the add packages/base in the 5W30 vs 15W50. It wasn't a blanket question about mixing oils.
 

OVERKILL

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You have no frame of reference for what you espouse. I have been around here since 2006, when Gary Allen was my initial Amsoil rep. Cheers big boy!

Uhh, yes he does, the miscibility standard only applies to API-approved lubricants first and foremost. Secondly, even within that scope the standard only guarantees that the end product won't split like salad dressing when mixed with any of the test oils, it does nothing to verify that the winter rating may have changed significantly for example.

That said, mixing two products from the same family is extremely low risk, but most blenders, save Redline, which uses the same addpack across their white bottle product portfolio, typically advise against mixing.
 
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149
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edyvw said:
kschachn said:
Yes, the risk you take with unlicensed and uncertified oils. People like to think they are "better" for a variety of reasons, most of which have no basis in fact (just a strong desire to believe).
Motul is actually very specific about this oil and its intended purpose. It is racing oil. It works phenomenally on track.

At least in the motorcycle version of 300V, there was no negative repercussion from mixing various 300V's, but it was always recommended to mix two adjacent viscosities, like 10W40 and 15W50 or 5W30 and 5W40.

Motul recommends against mixing 300V with other types of oil because it diminishes the the benefits of using 300V in the first place - which are: dynamic shear resistance; reduced oxidation and decreased volatility at high temperatures; increased pollutant miscibility in suspension; and optimal traction coefficient for wet clutches (substitute optimal friction modifiers for the car version). There are probably other benefits I'm not recalling here.

Many users report relatively long OCIs are possible with relatively tight street engines with moderate useage - just like with Red Line performance oils - but analysis is required to confirm it for particular applications. Most will just come to the conclusion that it's not worth the current $19 per liter in US, but it could have a similar use to Valvoline Premium Blue Restore for engines with stuck rings, varnish, resin buildup, sludge, etc. as an alternative to tear down and cleanup .
 
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At least in the motorcycle version of 300V, there was no negative repercussion from mixing various 300V's, but it was always recommended to mix two adjacent viscosities, like 10W40 and 15W50 or 5W30 and 5W40.

Motul recommends against mixing 300V with other types of oil because it diminishes the the benefits of using 300V in the first place - which are: dynamic shear resistance; reduced oxidation and decreased volatility at high temperatures; increased pollutant miscibility in suspension; and optimal traction coefficient for wet clutches (substitute optimal friction modifiers for the car version). There are probably other benefits I'm not recalling here.

Many users report relatively long OCIs are possible with relatively tight street engines with moderate useage - just like with Red Line performance oils - but analysis is required to confirm it for particular applications. Most will just come to the conclusion that it's not worth the current $19 per liter in US, but it could have a similar use to Valvoline Premium Blue Restore for engines with stuck rings, varnish, resin buildup, sludge, etc. as an alternative to tear down and cleanup .
We have several UOA of 300V. It is not intended for long OCI and UOA shows that.
 
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We have several UOA of 300V. It is not intended for long OCI and UOA shows that.
On my motorcycle, which was intended for a 3,500 mile OCI, I ended up at 5,500, and Blackstone said I could easily go another 2,000 more. Shifting was style fine before the end of the OCI.

If I was tracking it that whole distance I'm sure the result would have been quite different.
 
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On my motorcycle, which was intended for a 3,500 mile OCI, I ended up at 5,500, and Blackstone said I could easily go another 2,000 more. Shifting was style fine before the end of the OCI.

If I was tracking it that whole distance I'm sure the result would have been quite different.
I am talking about vehicle application. And my understanding is that this is what we are talking in this tread.
 
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edyvw said:
CentAmDL650 said:
On my motorcycle, which was intended for a 3,500 mile OCI, I ended up at 5,500, and Blackstone said I could easily go another 2,000 more. Shifting was style fine before the end of the OCI.

If I was tracking it that whole distance I'm sure the result would have been quite different.
I am talking about vehicle application. And my understanding is that this is what we are talking in this tread.

So what's different about the vehicle application that would make it require more frequent OCIs? No wet clutch, no gearbox, less rpm. Amount of blow-by might be higher due to larger pistons/ more displacement? Otherwise that sounds like an easier application to me, .

I'm suggesting for equal driving conditions 300V should be at least 80% of any GR II / III/ IV mix (with montoring/ analysis), just like Red Line performance oil is. But I'm not an application expert, are you?
 
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So what's different about the vehicle application that would make it require more frequent OCIs? No wet clutch, no gearbox, less rpm. Amount of blow-by might be higher due to larger pistons/ more displacement? Otherwise that sounds like an easier application to me, .

I'm suggesting for equal driving conditions 300V should be at least 80% of any GR II / III/ IV mix (with montoring/ analysis), just like Red Line performance oil is. But I'm not an application expert, are you?
Did you actually see UOA or you are assuming about OCI? "It should be" is not the same as having data.
 
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149
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edyvw said:
Did you actually see UOA or you are assuming about OCI? "It should be" is not the same as having data.
Ok, here's a recent one...


Motul 300V 5W30 in Audi S5 4.2 V8 for 11,500 km (~6,500 miles) OCI, by "Fulcrum"...

What would make you tell this driver to reduce his OCI?

The TBN decline from 7.97 to 6.8?

The TAN at 3.58?

The viscosity thickening from 11.0 cSt to 11.34?

The iron at 9 ppm? The aluminum at <1 ppm?

The flashpoint at 160°C? (I would agree, but sounds like fuel dilution, not sure I could blame the oil).

If I was the analyst at Bureau Veritas Laboratory I would say this oil is working fine in this application. Just figure out the source of high silicon (which may be sealants), because the oil starts at 15 - 20 for some extra anti-foaming racing capability.
 
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12,152
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Ok, here's a recent one...


Motul 300V 5W30 in Audi S5 4.2 V8 for 11,500 km (~6,500 miles) OCI, by "Fulcrum"...

What would make you tell this driver to reduce his OCI?

The TBN decline from 7.97 to 6.8?

The TAN at 3.58?

The viscosity thickening from 11.0 cSt to 11.34?

The iron at 9 ppm? The aluminum at <1 ppm?

The flashpoint at 160°C? (I would agree, but sounds like fuel dilution, not sure I could blame the oil).

If I was the analyst at Bureau Veritas Laboratory I would say this oil is working fine in this application. Just figure out the source of high silicon (which may be sealants), because the oil starts at 15 - 20 for some extra anti-foaming racing capability.
You also have recent one with Corvette where TAN indicates that it is not long OCI oil. Also, Motul is indicating same in their PDS.
I would say that TBN decrease from 7.97 to 6.8 in FSI engine is pretty much impossible in 6,500 miles.
If you have flashpoint of 160 (which is extremely worrisome) but such low drop in TBN, something than does not add up.
Look recent UOA on Corvette. It is more in line what to expect and TAN indicates that it is not long OCI oil. Again, Motul claims short distance racing, and does not want to associate oil with any approvals or recommendations for a reason.
They have "vanilla" version of 300V called Sport, which is API SN, and has oxidation control.
 
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149
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edyvw said:
You also have recent one with Corvette where TAN indicates that it is not long OCI oil. Also, Motul is indicating same in their PDS.
I would say that TBN decrease from 7.97 to 6.8 in FSI engine is pretty much impossible in 6,500 miles.
If you have flashpoint of 160 (which is extremely worrisome) but such low drop in TBN, something than does not add up.
Look recent UOA on Corvette. It is more in line what to expect and TAN indicates that it is not long OCI oil. Again, Motul claims short distance racing, and does not want to associate oil with any approvals or recommendations for a reason.
They have "vanilla" version of 300V called Sport, which is API SN, and has oxidation control.
What doesn't add up is the soot loading is shown as < .05% while the flashpoint has fallen to 160°C. I think the flashpoint measurement is either in error or he received some strange fuel, because with a flash that low the soot loading would be orders of magnitude higher.

Are you saying that an ester + PAO oil like 300V cannot resist oxidation? Because that is exactly what happens at extra high temperatures, and that's where 300V works at its best. I always thought the "Sport" line reduced the balance of ester in favor of more PAO / III, not adjusted the anti-oxidant concentration?

No link to the Corvette UOA? That lack of courtesy makes me think I live on a one way street. Without knowing exactly what you're referring to, I might guess it's a non- stock internal reciprocating assembly and had looser/ lower tension rings than the Audi 4.2 V8, allowing more blowby, therefore faster increase in the TAN. Proper monitoring sorts out where this oil would be suitable, applicable, and reaching its condemnation limit. But you've left me in the dark without knowing exactly what UOA you're referencing.

While sure, the Ester Sport series might be a better choice than 300V for most "sporty" engines, 8100 series also might be even better yet. The point is the original poster is wondering if he can use this in his street engine, and that answer is a qualified "yes". Qualified with "go in with your eyes open and understand what cons are out there."
 
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12,152
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What doesn't add up is the soot loading is shown as < .05% while the flashpoint has fallen to 160°C. I think the flashpoint measurement is either in error or he received some strange fuel, because with a flash that low the soot loading would be orders of magnitude higher.

Are you saying that an ester + PAO oil like 300V cannot resist oxidation? Because that is exactly what happens at extra high temperatures, and that's where 300V works at its best. I always thought the "Sport" line reduced the balance of ester in favor of more PAO / III, not adjusted the anti-oxidant concentration?

No link to the Corvette UOA? That lack of courtesy makes me think I live on a one way street. Without knowing exactly what you're referring to, I might guess it's a non- stock internal reciprocating assembly and had looser/ lower tension rings than the Audi 4.2 V8, allowing more blowby, therefore faster increase in the TAN. Proper monitoring sorts out where this oil would be suitable, applicable, and reaching its condemnation limit. But you've left me in the dark without knowing exactly what UOA you're referencing.

While sure, the Ester Sport series might be a better choice than 300V for most "sporty" engines, 8100 series also might be even better yet. The point is the original poster is wondering if he can use this in his street engine, and that answer is a qualified "yes". Qualified with "go in with your eyes open and understand what cons are out there."
Yes, he can use 300V as street oil. My point is that it cannot be used for regular OCI requirements. I am going to use 300V this summer, but it won't be in the sump that long, maybe, just maybe, 5k (if 3K UOA shows that it could do it).
The reason why I did not posted link is bcs, it is one of the first threads in UOA section:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2017-corvette-motul-300v-0w40-6-8k-miles.333524/
Now, wear numbers here compared to M1 ESP look really good, and even TAN considering much higher Esters in 300V, compared to M1 looks good. But, it is still up there. Which is fine, oil is not intended for such long OCI. That is my point.
 
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