Military Draft

[RDY4WAR]

I'm a 100% P&T disabled veteran. I do not, and will not, encourage my kids to join the military. If they wish to do so, I will support them, but I will not guide them that direction.

If I was considering joining the military today, like I was back in 2005, I wouldn't do it. There's been too many changes for the worse that compromise operational security and combat effectiveness for the sake of "equality." The military has one objective and one objective alone... to win WAR! Anything else is a distraction from that objective. You're a soldier first, focused on the objective, regardless if you're black or white, gay or straight, man or woman, etc... your discipline and combat readiness take precedence. If it doesn't, you're a liability and have no business serving in the military.

I am against the draft and consider it a desperate last resort. The reason is the same as my last sentence in the above paragraph, a lot of people drafted in who don't want to be there, don't have the objective in focus, and thus are a liability. I would rather have a smaller force of well disciplined soldiers, equipped and trained with the best technology and armament, dedicated to the objective, than I would a bigger force of less motivated, less disciplined draftees.

If we get to a point of desperation for manpower, I would rather see military enlistment offered as an alternative to prison time for non-violent offenders. I went to basic training with a guy who was given that option after pleading guilty to B&E and drug charges, 5 years in prison or 2 years military service. He chose military and ended up loving it, re-enlisted, and made a career of it. He's been in for 17 years now and is a 1st SGT stationed at Ft. Hood.

 

[Passport1]

I'll add my own ingredient to this troublesome stew. Like some here or their friends or family members I too served. I was unlucky enough to get sent to a conflict not of my making. War is a horrible thing to witness first hand. It is all anybody can imagine and more. It is a loathsome business and anybody who crows about it being a noble undertaking has been drinking his own bathwater. However there are ideologies in this world that hate us for the freedom we possess and maybe take for granted. It must be defended.

I agree completely with the sentiments here that all the recent wars have been prosecuted not for the national defense but for questionable reasons by deceitful and powerful people. My concern is that we pass on to the following generations something still worthwhile defending.

I remain deeply conflicted about the above issuses all have cited and will probably never reconcile them.

 

[Pew]

in ww2 the government didnt rly need the draft. so many men aged 17 - 40 were so eager to enlist so they could kill every murdering *** to avenge their fellow Americans who died in pearl harbor.

The American public was largely against fighting in somebody else's war, and rightfully so. After being put through "the war to end all wars" that were, to no surprise, done by the same countries barely 20 years prior. It was only Pearl Harbor that tipped the President's hand but over 60% of the military by the end of 1942 were all draftees (10 mil draftees of ~16mil that served from '41 to '45.)

 

[cptbarkey]

If Russia invades Poland........

Is Wagner crossing the Polish border a NATO triggering event?

 

[dbias]

If Russia invades Poland........

Russia wants nothing to do with Poland. Poland is a pit bull held back by NATO’s leash.

 

[RooflessVW]

Is Wagner crossing the Polish border a NATO triggering event?

I think that would depend on Poland's response.

Poland has shown amazing restraint so far. God help whoever crosses that border with hostile intent.

 

[Audiman]

I think the answer could part be the $23,000 pay check for a private for the first 2 years. And it’s lower that that fit your first 4 months!

Only way that can work for someone is if they join up straight out of high school so 16-18 years old.

 

[RDY4WAR]

The Polish people have a strong resolve to remain independent and not subjected to foreign rulers. Throughout history, Poland was invaded and wiped out many times over by Germany, Soviets, Russia, Prussia, Napoleon, Austria-Hungary, Sweden, and going all the way back to the days of Kievan Rus and Mongols. The number of times that country has been invaded is a bit insane. They're now a proud people, tired of being everyone else's punching bag, and ready to put up a fight. Much like the Finnish, they're very distrusting of Russia and most all of their military doctrine is aimed at the East.

 

[GON]

The US military (except for the USMC) continues to miss its recruiting goals. It may be as much as 160K personnel short. This is becoming a national defense issue.

Salient facts;
draft ended 50 years ago
recruiting is hugely expensive and draws important skilled personnel from their MOS
a decreasing percentage of Americans can qualify for military service for many reasons
unemployment is a historic low

Proposal;
I won't link to the source but it is from a reliable source and is easy to find.
Selective Service already exists
Recruiting will continue as normal for eleven months of the year and a selective draft will operate for the twelfth month to make up the shortfall
This may include females

Observations and opinions;
Having had a personal and up close experience with the draft it is an unfortunate but necessary thing if we will continue to live as a free country
The military is a feeder for many important civilian occupations. Lots aviation rates move easily into general and commercial aviation. Airline pilots are frequently military trained as are air traffic controllers. Ditto for medical and many other fields so there is a direct national benefit.

Thoughts about this?

View attachment 169934

How about a course of action of suspending federal government guaranteed student loans. and grants. Want the government to pay/ loan a person money for college- enlist for a few years. This is also a COA for student loan payback- the U.S. military Reserves offer to pay off student loan debt for serving. Why are COAs like these not on the table instead of going direct to the draft. And I am not holisitically opposed to the draft, just other COAs to meet the need should be looked at.

 

[eljefino]

The fat kids can do work in cyber-security or work as CNAs in some VA hospital. The definition of "national service" will have to make a couple twists.

 

[wag123]

The problem isn't recruiting or pay, the problem is that about 71 percent of America's 17 to 24-year-olds are ineligible for military service due to lack of education, obesity, other physical and/or psychological problems, substance abuse, or criminal history. Additionally, about 30 percent of those who are eligible fail the Armed Forces Qualification Test. Furthermore, if they do qualify and get in, about 14% of new recruits wash out of basic or advanced individual training. Initiating a draft will not solve these problems. This is a sad commentary about today's young adults.

 

[IndyIan]

If Russia invades Poland........

I don't think Russia is looking for another conflict at the moment.... Especially against NATO.... Now if Poland starts sending troops into Ukraine to help directly, or gets goaded into retaliating to much against Wagner in Belarus? I still don't think Russia wants to get into that though.

My fear is some war hawks will start doing the math on how much money has actually been spent in Russia maintaining their nuclear arms in the last 20 years, and come to the conclusion that probably 3/4 or more may not work anymore, and decide nuclear war is winnable...

But I think all NATO nations leaders know that Russia attacking Ukraine was a dumb thing to do and expanding that mistake isn't going to help, so they will keep the war contained in Ukraine and Russia, and promote the idea that it would be good for someone to push Putin of a balcony... Germany was very willing to make Russian oligarchs quite wealthy before Putin read some books and got too ideological, and I'm sure those oligarchs remember that.

 

[GON]

SC

So my reading and having friends that served in the sandbox tell me there are two issues:

1) Too many kids can't pass the physical.
2) Many veterans steer their kids clear of the military due to their broken policies - wars for oil, conditions of engagement, woke policies, etc.

So the solution is the draft? Genius, lets draft the ones smart enough and fit enough to say no to the current stupidity.

Here is my solution - draft the out of shape ones - make them get into shape - aferwards offer them a career in the military - after their BS policies are cleaned up.

SCM,


Your idea is awesome- but can't be implemented with today's current systems. The result would be huge costs for young adults that never qualify to serve. To qualify to serve one MUST complete basic and advanced individual training.

Drafting out of shape young Americans results in medical issues, causing these recruits to never complete basic and advanced individual training. These young people, that never qualified to do a military occupational specialty (MOS) than get disabled and military retirement in many cases. Crazy system- but you might be amazed how many adults under 20 years of age are on military disability and military retirement- having never completed basic and AIT.

 

[GON]

And stop fighting in these stupid wars. The last couple were a trainwreck.

I am sending this from 40'000 feet. I am not going to challenge if the war on terror was a trainwreck. What I will say is after 911 the free world has maintained its ability to fly commercially without significant incident for the 20 plus years. Not sure if that is a measurement in the statement "the last couple were a trainwreck". One would have to look at what the mission, key tasks, and end-state are/ were to know if the war on terror was a trainwreck. If one key task was freedom of commercial air travel- seems that task was accomplished, and in doing so- many seeds of equivalent benefit.

 

[vpr5703]

I am sending this from 40'000 feet. I am not going to challenge if the war on terror was a trainwreck. What I will say is after 911 the free world has maintained its ability to fly commercially without significant incident for the 20 plus years. Not sure if that is a measurement in the statement "the last couple were a trainwreck". One would have to look at what the mission, key tasks, and end-state are/ were to know if the war on terror was a trainwreck. If one key task was freedom of commercial air travel- seems that task was accomplished, and in doing so- many seeds of equivalent benefit.

To be fair I don't think the War on Terror was responsible for that. I think the airlines were criminally loose with security and 9/11 woke them up to it.

 

[GON]

I think the answer could part be the $23,000 pay check for a private for the first 2 years. And it’s lower that that fit your first 4 months!

Only way that can work for someone is if they join up straight out of high school so 16-18 years old.

My youngest Son is 29 years old. He finished basic training a few months ago, and is now in advanced individual training (AIT) learning how to repair radios to the component level.

My youngest Son's life was not one of individual growth. The Army gave him a new chapter for his life to get physically fit, mentally tough, and disciplined. He is a different man today than when he enlisted and shipped off to basic training last October. Serving one's country and being part of something bigger than oneself is an awesome thing.

My Son had to give up his smart phone, and even to this day is not allowed to have a car. But, the tradeoff of a smart phone was confidence, competency, knowledge, increase in physical strength-- and many more things. I am quite sure the last thing the money machine tech companies want is young adults not using their smartphones 16 hours a day.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The American public was largely against fighting in somebody else's war, and rightfully so. After being put through "the war to end all wars" that were, to no surprise, done by the same countries barely 20 years prior. It was only Pearl Harbor that tipped the President's hand but over 60% of the military by the end of 1942 were all draftees (10 mil draftees of ~16mil that served from '41 to '45.)

Don't forget the lowering of the draft age. It was 21 in 1940 then lowered to 18 in 1942. On an aside the male brain exits adolescence at around age 23-24.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

The US military (except for the USMC) continues to miss its recruiting goals. It may be as much as 160K personnel short. This is becoming a national defense issue.

Salient facts;
draft ended 50 years ago
recruiting is hugely expensive and draws important skilled personnel from their MOS
a decreasing percentage of Americans can qualify for military service for many reasons
unemployment is a historic low

Proposal;
I won't link to the source but it is from a reliable source and is easy to find.
Selective Service already exists
Recruiting will continue as normal for eleven months of the year and a selective draft will operate for the twelfth month to make up the shortfall
This may include females

Observations and opinions;
Having had a personal and up close experience with the draft it is an unfortunate but necessary thing if we will continue to live as a free country
The military is a feeder for many important civilian occupations. Lots aviation rates move easily into general and commercial aviation. Airline pilots are frequently military trained as are air traffic controllers. Ditto for medical and many other fields so there is a direct national benefit.

Thoughts about this?

View attachment 169934

I dont see where we have much of a choice.

 

[Al]

It's almost like 20 years of ******** wars have created a country that is resentful of it's leadership and military service in general.

My children will never serve in the military, draft or not. I'll go broke to keep them away if I have to.

My two oldest grand-kids volunteered in the military. Through hard work the younger one in the Marines enlisted at 17 became an MP and had it comparitively good. He would have never carried a rifle. The older one got into the national guard as a construction engineer. He is still in the guard and is 2nd. Lt. in charge of an engineering unit. Again he will not be carrying a rifle. My daughter (their mom) volunteered in the Guard. Her official title was "Truck Driver" She ultimately became a 2nd Lt. bc and went to college on GI bill and became a 2ns Lt. They all got College $$$$

If you decide your kids are unwilling to take advantages of the Military vs. the Draft and you decide to play "Mother Hen" for them that's your call. I think that is a bad idea. They are adults.

 

[GON]

My two oldest grand-kids volunteered in the military. Through hard work the younger one in the Marines enlisted at 17 became an MP and had it comparitively good. He would have never carried a rifle. The older one got into the national guard as a construction engineer. He is still in the guard and is 2nd. Lt. in charge of an engineering unit. Again he will not be carrying a rifle. My daughter (their mom) volunteered in the Guard. Her official title was "Truck Driver" She ultimately became a 2nd Lt. bc and went to college on GI bill and became a 2ns Lt. They all got College $$$$

If you decide your kids are unwilling to take advantages of the Military vs. the Draft and you decide to play "Mother Hen" for them that's your call. I think that is a bad idea. They are adults.

AI,

Glad your Grandchildren served- please tell them thank you from many Americans- to serve their country, at the expense of their personal time and individual rights.

On the education front- awesome they used their GI bill, but it seems the US taxpayers (involuntarily) will pay for young people to go to college without military service.