Military Draft

[SC Maintenance]

How about a course of action of suspending federal government guaranteed student loans. and grants. Want the government to pay/ loan a person money for college- enlist for a few years. This is also a COA for student loan payback- the U.S. military Reserves offer to pay off student loan debt for serving. Why are COAs like these not on the table instead of going direct to the draft. And I am not holisitically opposed to the draft, just other COAs to meet the need should be looked at.

Its a decent idea but they have tried similar things and the government always ends up screwing it up. For example teachers were supposed to have a chance at forgiveness if they taught so long in public schools, but they also have to default on the loan before they get any help - which screws up the rest of their life.

 

[SC Maintenance]

SC

SCM,


Your idea is awesome- but can't be implemented with today's current systems. The result would be huge costs for young adults that never qualify to serve. To qualify to serve one MUST complete basic and advanced individual training.

Drafting out of shape young Americans results in medical issues, causing these recruits to never complete basic and advanced individual training. These young people, that never qualified to do a military occupational specialty (MOS) than get disabled and military retirement in many cases. Crazy system- but you might be amazed how many adults under 20 years of age are on military disability and military retirement- having never completed basic and AIT.

If we got a 5% return on those that made it - it would be a worthwhile effort.

We waste far more money on far less admiral affairs.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

The problem isn't recruiting or pay, the problem is that about 71 percent of America's 17 to 24-year-olds are ineligible for military service due to lack of education, obesity, other physical and/or physiological problems, or criminal history. Additionally, about 30 percent of those who do qualify still fail the Armed Forces Qualification Test. Furthermore, if they do qualify and get in, about 14% of new recruits wash out of basic or advanced individual training. Initiating a draft will not solve these problems. This is a sad commentary about today's young adults.

We (well I do) like to watch these cop shows and youtube videos of idiots being stopped and arrested.... like the re-vamp of "Live PD" (OP Live). My wife and I were watching this last weekends' episodes yesterday. Most of the people cops interact with have an IQ of less than 40, I suspect. Most of these people cannot carry on a comprehensible conversation with anything near correct English. It's all "bruh, you be dissin' me, bruh, I ain't didt nothin', bruh, bruh git yo hands offa me bruh", on and on and on."

All races, all genders, all income brackets.

There's no possible way these people could compose three sentences to explain their situation in a manner that would make any human with half a brain stop and listen to their story and say "hmmm, they might have something worth listening to say"....

I told my wife if the Chinese, Russian and Iranians watched this and had half a clue about modern US culture and knew that these people we watch on these shows make up north of 40% of the US population today, they couldn't stop laughing long enough to invade us. They would realize that the time is NOW. No further plans need to be made, in fact, they would probably alter their plans greatly to reflect on the disturbing findings of this segment of the population.

Mind you, most of these people are under 40. Fighting age. They have no ambition, no education, no skills, no brain and no self-worth. Why in the world would any country's military want these imbeciles is beyond me.


Most of you want to run your pie hole about overweight people. Those folks might be your only option to living in a half-way free country very soon. I'd choose your words and friends wisely....

 

[JavierH19]

Gee i wonder why no one wants to sign up...

 

[Pew]

How about a course of action of suspending federal government guaranteed student loans. and grants. Want the government to pay/ loan a person money for college- enlist for a few years. This is also a COA for student loan payback- the U.S. military Reserves offer to pay off student loan debt for serving. Why are COAs like these not on the table instead of going direct to the draft. And I am not holisitically opposed to the draft, just other COAs to meet the need should be looked at.

Reserves (Montgomery GI Bill - Selected Reserves) will not pay off a student loan. The regular 9/11 GI Bill and the Montgomery GI Bill - Active Duty is based off the active-duty time served, so essentially reserves aren't even seen as service members by the government if they were never activated.

EDIT: I just checked the MGIB-SR rates, under $500/month for a reservist going to school full-time.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Gee i wonder why no one wants to sign up...

I've always said that I wouldn't allow my kids to serve for one reason - it's been outlined above many times:

1. Politicians
2. Endless wars that does not benefit or defend the US Citizens
3. My kid isn't dying to boost Northrup's, Boeing's, Lockheed's or other "military contractor's" profit margins.

 

[GON]

Reserves (Montgomery GI Bill - Selected Reserves) will not pay off a student loan. The regular 9/11 GI Bill and the Montgomery GI Bill - Active Duty is based off the active-duty time served, so essentially reserves aren't even seen as service members by the government if they were never activated.

The Reserves offer enlistment bonuses that include student loan payoff which is separate from GI bill entitlements, as a recruiting incentive. I have seen and read the contract for student loan payback. It is not always offered when recruiting goals are met, but the Reserves have not met the congressional mandated annual end-strength numbers in years.

 

[Pew]

The Reserves offer enlistment bonuses that include student loan payoff which is separate from GI bill entitlements, as a recruiting incentive. I have seen and read the contract for student loan payback. It is not always offered when recruiting goals are met, but the Reserves have not met the congressional mandated annual end-strength numbers in years.

True, a limited amount of MOS's will have enlistment bonuses depending on how badly they need someone to fill in that spot; but one must wonder how much of that bonus is worth over the next 4-6 years.

 

[GON]

True, a limited amount of MOS's will have enlistment bonuses depending on how badly they need someone to fill in that spot; but one must wonder how much of that bonus is worth over the next 4-6 years.

Great point, my youngest Son received a $40k USD bonus, paid at $10k USD over four years. The dynamic buying power of the USD makes that $40k bonus over four years worth significantly less. But the change in the buying power of the USD is not a responsibility of the Department of Defense.

Life is not fair- but what my Son learns in the military will be with him for the rest of his life. Discipline, confidence, teamwork, sacrifice, sucking it up, being krapped on and treated unfair at times----- all part of life and development.

 

[RooflessVW]

My two oldest grand-kids volunteered in the military. Through hard work the younger one in the Marines enlisted at 17 became an MP and had it comparitively good. He would have never carried a rifle. The older one got into the national guard as a construction engineer. He is still in the guard and is 2nd. Lt. in charge of an engineering unit. Again he will not be carrying a rifle. My daughter (their mom) volunteered in the Guard. Her official title was "Truck Driver" She ultimately became a 2nd Lt. bc and went to college on GI bill and became a 2ns Lt. They all got College $$$$

If you decide your kids are unwilling to take advantages of the Military vs. the Draft and you decide to play "Mother Hen" for them that's your call. I think that is a bad idea. They are adults.

Did you or their parents serve?

 

[cptbarkey]

There wont be a draft until there is a large negative turn in the US economy.
There wont be a draft until there is world war 3, all countries are doing their best to avoid it.
Russia has endured quite well given their stupid decisions.
Wagner might step into Poland to dare NATO. NATO will blink. Wagner will go home. Life will move on.

These are my off the cuff predictions, nobody wants world war 3.

 

[UG_Passat]

If Russia invades Poland........

Putin has its hands full with Ukraine.

China has its eye on Taiwan for quite some time now, and is waiting for the perfect time to strike.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The whole debate, while interesting, is academic.

Assuming a peace time draft is legal - I think that would need to go to the supremes again, and assuming you could draft the right people - you would have immediately lost the support of 90% of the population. The next politician to run on "end the draft" would win by a landslide.

The extremely short answer is the Militaries business proposition is lacking. It used to be a really good opportunity for many, and the military as an organization was beyond reproach. If the best and brightest don't want it anymore - that tells you everything you need to know - as discussed above.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Putin has its hands full with Ukraine.

China has its eye on Taiwan for quite some time now, and is waiting for the perfect time to strike.

Wildly unlikely. Yes he wants to, but Taiwan has missiles that will reach every mainland Chinese City. Odds are good they also have nukes. They supposedly "gave up" their nuclear program years ago, but they are one of the most technologically advanced nations on earth, and have lots of friends with nukes, and have reactors that can produce nuclear material. Taiwan has been preparing fort his war for 50 years. Its there sole focus.

Not to mention there is that pesky 100 miles of ocean they need to cross first.

 

[GON]

Wildly unlikely. Yes he wants to, but Taiwan has missiles that will reach every mainland Chinese City. Odds are good they also have nukes. They supposedly "gave up" their nuclear program years ago, but they are one of the most technologically advanced nations on earth, and have lots of friends with nukes, and have reactors that can produce nuclear material. Taiwan has been preparing fort his war for 50 years. Its there sole focus.

Not to mention there is that pesky 100 miles of ocean they need to cross first.

SCM,

Regrettably- your assessment IMHO is not even close. I suspect the PRC and PLA pushed that information as part of an information operations campaign.

 

[cptbarkey]

China has been projected itself onto Taiwan for decades, only the past 10 years has their military buildup, technological advances (theft via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_intellectual_property_theft_by_China https://www.ft.com/content/1d13ab71-bffd-4d63-a0bf-9e9bdfc33c39) have started to worry the US and other countries.

Podcasts from analysts I have listened to are predicting "something in 2025-2027." TV News will sell the news everyday for profit. Life also goes on. There better not be any Taiwan funny business in November, I'm looking forward to a long deserved vacation.

 

[Dave Hess]

The military is a feeder for many important civilian occupations. Lots aviation rates move easily into general and commercial aviation. Airline pilots are frequently military trained as are air traffic controllers. Ditto for medical and many other fields so there is a direct national benefit.

Thoughts about this?

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Hopefully there’s no wars and USA doesn’t get dragged into another mess.
If there was a draft today it would be a disaster and most would refuse to serve in the military.

My 3 kids, wife and I are all served in the Air Force / Air National Guard / Air Force Reserve and all the training helped us as a civilian. Dad was in Army 1954-1959 , my brother was a Navy Corpsman and served in Iraq.

My uncle got drafted, served in Vietnam and had a 22 year Army career.

The military is not for everyone and some shouldn’t join because they will hate it.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

There wont be a draft until there is a large negative turn in the US economy.
There wont be a draft until there is world war 3, all countries are doing their best to avoid it.
Russia has endured quite well given their stupid decisions.
Wagner might step into Poland to dare NATO. NATO will blink. Wagner will go home. Life will move on.

These are my off the cuff predictions, nobody wants world war 3.

1. Going on, most are oblivious to it.
2. Two of the 4 major US Enemies have been planning for decades; they are clearly exposing their intentions, most are oblivious to it.
3. They've done a good job of distracting from #2; some don't see that.
4. Not on a radar.

5. "nobody" is Russia and China, mainly China. China will use Russia like the pawn they are. Most in power in the US want the country to believe that China doesn't have the military infrastructure to do much outside the South China Sea. China won't be fighting the war with their ships, tanks and planes. They will be using computer chips that control reclosers, switches and other computer-controlled devices that keep the power going from the plant to your home/business/hospital/water treatment facility/sewage treatment facility/grocery store distribution center and local/state/federal government offices, they will be using computer chips that control pump houses in finished water systems that deliver water to your home/buisness/hospital/etc, they will be using computers that control natural gas pumps, valves, etc., they will be using computer chips that control cellular, microwave and other radio frequencies, they will be using computer chips that control the operation of generators at rail facilities, airports, 911 call centers, hospitals, water tanks/pump stations, cell phone towers, distribution centers and more.

China doesn't give two squirts about what was talked about on 60 minutes about their Navy.... Or nuclear weapons. They don't need that stuff. I promise.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Hopefully there’s no wars and USA doesn’t get dragged into another mess.
If there was a draft today it would be a disaster and most would refuse to serve in the military.

My 3 kids, wife and I are all served in the Air Force / Air National Guard / Air Force Reserve and all the training helped us as a civilian. Dad was in Army 1954-1959 , my brother was a Navy Corpsman and served in Iraq.

My uncle got drafted, served in Vietnam and had a 22 year Army career.

The military is not for everyone and some shouldn’t join because they will hate it.

Thanks for all your service. I just escaped Vietnam. I had to register early in 1975. Yet just before I got out of school , POTUS Nixon somehow stopped the draft and ended the war. I dont recall the details of how he did all of that so fast? To all who served we thank you.
I have always felt a bit guilty for not serving at least a couple years.

 

[GON]

China doesn't give two squirts about what was talked about on 60 minutes about their Navy.... Or nuclear weapons. They don't need that stuff. I promise.

Sure China does. Without a doubt China tells CBS what they broadcast about China, and what they will not broadcast about China.

CBS, NBC, ABC , FOX etc. are all addicted to revenue from China's. China is free money to those mega media groups, and they will not risk upsetting China and getting cut off from the PRC gravy train.