large % of US not smart enough for military

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Originally Posted By: Chris142
I tried to enlist right after hs. I took a few tests and was told I was not desirable.i probly failed the test


I got a very good score on the ASVAB...then flunked the physical the next day.
mad.gif
They couldn't have done that first, so I didn't waste an entire day, half a tank of gas, and miss a date with my girlfriend?!
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I tried to enlist right after hs. I took a few tests and was told I was not desirable.i probly failed the test


I got a very good score on the ASVAB...then flunked the physical the next day.
mad.gif
They couldn't have done that first, so I didn't waste an entire day, half a tank of gas, and miss a date with my girlfriend?!


With that attitude, you weren't right for the military anyway. :P
 
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I tried to enlist right after hs. I took a few tests and was told I was not desirable.i probly failed the test


I got a very good score on the ASVAB...then flunked the physical the next day.
mad.gif
They couldn't have done that first, so I didn't waste an entire day, half a tank of gas, and miss a date with my girlfriend?!


With that attitude, you weren't right for the military anyway. :P


I was a HS student for whom half a tank of gas and (as I recall) $10 to park was not an insignificant amount of money.
 
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Goes along with average IQ...."average" used to be 100 30 years ago. Now it's closer to 80.


Interesting. I've just found a number of sources online that put the average IQ of the United States at approximately 98. I've also found a Duke University (Jonathan Wai) study that established that between 1981 and 2010 IQ scores of 5th, 6th and 7th grade children were constantly rising, and the right tail of the intelligence curve was also rising.

Maybe it's just the folks who spout figures without researching the facts who have the IQ closer to 80.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: Chris142
I tried to enlist right after hs. I took a few tests and was told I was not desirable.i probly failed the test


I got a very good score on the ASVAB...then flunked the physical the next day.
mad.gif
They couldn't have done that first, so I didn't waste an entire day, half a tank of gas, and miss a date with my girlfriend?!


You got off lucky. Some may remember a 1980s Army commercial showing all manner of exciting action scenes. The tag line is "we do more before 9am than most people do all day."

The reality is much of the time in the military, you will waste more time before 9am than most people will waste all day.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Joe1


When a prospective candidate applies for military service they are administered an ASVAB test.


Hang on a minute, the candidate pool isn't "the US" it's those applying to serve. It seems that we as a society, guidance counselors, etc don't value such things and don't "steer" the people in that direction equally.

It's not much different from saying the bottom % of a graduating class should pick a blue collar trade like auto mechanics then being surprised when an audi dealership needs a robot connected to HQ engineering to point out what to do.

An all volunteer military has a moral advantage-- everyone signed up to be there-- but a draft brings in expertise and more walks of life. The problem with that is, what sort of continuity does one get without the draftees being career soldiers but rather in for a year or two?


You've got this all backwards, and are trying to say that people who apply to the military aren't as good as the average when nothing could be further from the truth.

The "candidate pool" that has been tested is the US population of eligible age, not just those applying to the military.

And 75% of graduating high school seniors, not just those applying, but all graduating seniors, FAIL to meet the minimum standards for military service. It's a combination (a depressing combination, really) of lack of intellectual performance on the ASVAB, lack of minimum physical fitness, or drug use, or history of criminal behaviour.

That's the real issue - 3/4 of our population cannot meet military minimum standards for service.

Say it any way you like, but 3/4 of our youth are either too dumb, too fat, or too amoral to join.

And that should frighten, and sadden, us all.
 
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Originally Posted By: Kuato
Goes along with average IQ...."average" used to be 100 30 years ago. Now it's closer to 80.


Based on what study?
 
This is just a tired retread that's been going around for decades. Before I enlisted, I heard that some fields had "comic books" because the tankers/soldiers were getting too stupid to read (they were actually more like graphic novels with lots of text). This was around the 1970s and early 1980s. The truth is that it's probably somewhat difficult to enlist in the Army as the force is half the size it was in the late 1980's (about 775,000 then, 450,000 or so now). Standards ebb and flow but I think it's mostly overblown and typically recycled "these kids are just getting dumb today" hype. You'll find similar arguments every decade since WWII. And BTW, I can't recall the specifics but large numbers of men were ineligible for the 1940-41 prewar draft because of malnutrition and poor education. I wanna say it was at least 30% of the population, but I think it was more. Of course the more rigorous standards dropped when shooting started. It's somewhere in Rick Atkinson's "Army at Dawn"...
 
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Goes along with average IQ...."average" used to be 100 30 years ago. Now it's closer to 80.


Interesting. I've just found a number of sources online that put the average IQ of the United States at approximately 98. I've also found a Duke University (Jonathan Wai) study that established that between 1981 and 2010 IQ scores of 5th, 6th and 7th grade children were constantly rising, and the right tail of the intelligence curve was also rising.

Maybe it's just the folks who spout figures without researching the facts who have the IQ closer to 80.


LOL That's sort of my inclination...
 
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
We still need men and women to cook the food, chip the paint, and clean the latrine.

When bodies are needed for the next ramp-up, the standards will go down.


Nope. That's all outsourced to highly paid DOD employees and contractors. Most of it anyways..
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Joe1


When a prospective candidate applies for military service they are administered an ASVAB test.


Hang on a minute, the candidate pool isn't "the US" it's those applying to serve. It seems that we as a society, guidance counselors, etc don't value such things and don't "steer" the people in that direction equally.

It's not much different from saying the bottom % of a graduating class should pick a blue collar trade like auto mechanics then being surprised when an audi dealership needs a robot connected to HQ engineering to point out what to do.

An all volunteer military has a moral advantage-- everyone signed up to be there-- but a draft brings in expertise and more walks of life. The problem with that is, what sort of continuity does one get without the draftees being career soldiers but rather in for a year or two?


You've got this all backwards, and are trying to say that people who apply to the military aren't as good as the average when nothing could be further from the truth.

The "candidate pool" that has been tested is the US population of eligible age, not just those applying to the military.

And 75% of graduating high school seniors, not just those applying, but all graduating seniors, FAIL to meet the minimum standards for military service. It's a combination (a depressing combination, really) of lack of intellectual performance on the ASVAB, lack of minimum physical fitness, or drug use, or history of criminal behaviour.

That's the real issue - 3/4 of our population cannot meet military minimum standards for service.

Say it any way you like, but 3/4 of our youth are either too dumb, too fat, or too amoral to join.

And that should frighten, and sadden, us all.


Had to go look this stuff up, as I never took this test, never heard of it before. So I'm not sure how this isn't a reflection of the pool of candidates trying to get into the armed forces, and not necessarily the population at large. [Granted, if a majority of the population applies or otherwise tests, then it would reflect--but I'm not sure what the take rate is.]

Wikipedia does say that it is a normalized test, so a score of 50% does mean smack dab in the middle.
Quote:
The ASVAB was first introduced in 1968 and was adopted by all branches of the military in 1976. It underwent a major revision in 2002. In 2004, the test's percentile rank scoring system was renormalized, to ensure that a score of 50% really did represent doing better than exactly 50% of the test takers.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Services_Vocational_Aptitude_Battery
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Goes along with average IQ...."average" used to be 100 30 years ago. Now it's closer to 80.


Interesting. I've just found a number of sources online that put the average IQ of the United States at approximately 98. I've also found a Duke University (Jonathan Wai) study that established that between 1981 and 2010 IQ scores of 5th, 6th and 7th grade children were constantly rising, and the right tail of the intelligence curve was also rising.

Maybe it's just the folks who spout figures without researching the facts who have the IQ closer to 80.


LOL That's sort of my inclination...


It's an interesting situation. Our kids are quite smart and intelligent, and yet have very little knowledge about math, geography, chemistry or physics. But are very good at creative solutions for problem solving. My suspicion is that they are being trained to be managers and then outsource technical skills to people from countries where these skills are strong -- Russia, China, and maybe in the near future, India.
 
Given our connectivity, why learn at other than a high level? You can always look it up when you need it.

I took calculus 1,2,3 at college. Forgotten most of the derivatives etc. Turns out, I don't need them for my regular duties. However, if I ever do need to use them, a few minutes on wikipedia to refresh the brain, or dig out some math textbooks, and voila! there it is. Same thing for figuring out where whatsitsplace is. Google maps to the rescue.

Similarly, if you don't use it, you lose it. I know at one point I knew all the state capitals. Now I'm content to just remember what the states are, never mind the capitals.
 
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
As the population of the US becomes more "DIEverse" which in turn includes more third world elements with a propensity towards lower IQ potential and temperaments that are less capable of self discipline, this trend is no surprise.


Welcome to the modern Tower of Babel, brought to you by the chosenites.

Did you set your calendar back to 1816? Or maybe 1939? You are a racist disgrace...
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
It comes down to supply and demand....there is lower demand right now, so recruiters are being picky.

As others have alluded, if a big new conflict started, almost any able-bodied man or woman willing to serve would be welcome.

You got the first part right. All the services have achieved their recruiting goals year-after-year, for decades now.

Enlistment and Officer Candidate qualifications are however, not subject to change, except by law.
 
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
As the population of the US becomes more "DIEverse" which in turn includes more third world elements with a propensity towards lower IQ potential and temperaments that are less capable of self discipline, this trend is no surprise.


Welcome to the modern Tower of Babel, brought to you by the chosenites.

Did you set your calendar back to 1816? Or maybe 1939? You are a racist disgrace...



It doesn't matter what you call me,fact is the growing stupidity, and lack of intelligence of the typical US citizen is the result of the increasingly non white gentile make up of the population.

You are not helping much either... Your theory has been debunked for decades, and google "brain drain", its amazing how much Canada and the US benefits from educated and motivated immigrants from around the world.
 
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: IndyIan

You are not helping much either... Your theory has been debunked for decades, and google "brain drain", its amazing how much Canada and the US benefits from educated and motivated immigrants from around the world.


Sure some of those non white gentiles are potentially compatible, but even so there are plenty of white gentiles living in our own nations that are capable of making the same contributions, and they have the benefit of being from our own culture so the contribution is even greater.

Bottom line... who died and was the "decider" that we white gentiles must accept these people into our lands? You don't see this in Asia, Africa, India, the M.E, ect....why should we have to accept this
IMPOSITION?....and I do NOT nor do many others and the push back is coming my friend.


Native Americans find your position quite ironic.


Make America hate again!
 
Originally Posted By: surfstar


Native Americans find your position quite ironic.


Make America hate again!


White Europeans arrived in North America 30,000 years before the first Siberio Indian ever crossed the Bering Straits...They were Kennewick Man.

There is nothing hateful about a people such as white gentiles wanting to have lands of their own.
No one says that about Africans, Asians, Indians, ect...only about White Gentiles...
nothing hypocritical about that is there?
 
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