Michelin Pilot Sport AS4

[chefwong]

For those who have run Pilot Sport AS4 compounds, how has you experience been in the literal sense of ~all seasons~

I am considering this for one car who's snow shoes are due and instead of summer/snow compounds, going the All Season route.
With all this global warming and all, winters have been getting milder every year. Haven't even used the snowblowers in like 2-3 years I think....

 

[Pew]

They're great in the 3-seasons. I wouldn't use them with snow over 2-3 inches.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

If you really need the winter/snow performance, consider the CrossClimate instead

 

[edyvw]

For those who have run Pilot Sport AS4 compounds, how has you experience been in the literal sense of ~all seasons~

I am considering this for one car who's snow shoes are due and instead of summer/snow compounds, going the All Season route.
With all this global warming and all, winters have been getting milder every year. Haven't even used the snowblowers in like 2-3 years I think....

More evaporation, and sometimes more precipitation=while it definitely got winters milder, it also means storms can pack more punch when they arrive.

 

[chefwong]

Sounds like ya'll have talked me out of thinking about -all seasons-.

 

[jeepman3071]

I daily drive a BMW 328i, which is rear wheel drive. I have the AS4s, and they are great for most conditions. I previously had dedicated summer tires, which just didn't cut it for the number of "in between" weather days we have here. I do have dedicated snow tires, and will always suggest those whenever possible, because I did test the AS4s in light snow and they were just adequate. Traction was predictable, but being a RWD car the difference with actual dedicated snow tires is night and day.

 

[Astro14]

The AS4 is a good performing tire that isn’t dangerous in the snow.

For actual snow use, there are much better choices - like the Continental DWS

 

[edyvw]

The AS4 is a good performing tire that isn’t dangerous in the snow.

For actual snow use, there are much better choices - like the Continental DWS

While it might have better performance than AS4, I would not trust it in any kind of snow, and I roll BMW on them now.

 

[Astro14]

While it might have better performance than AS4, I would not trust it in any kind of snow, and I roll BMW on them now.

Well, you know that I have real winter tires on all my cars that see snow.

The problem with the AS4 is that it simply sucks less in the show than other performance tires. It’s not good in snow, it just doesn’t suck as bad as summer tires, which are downright dangerous.

But people see “all season” and think it’s actually good in all four seasons.

Nope. It is actually good in three.

 

[edyvw]

Well, you know that I have real winter tires on all my cars that see snow.

The problem with the AS4 is that it simply sucks less in the show than other performance tires. It’s not good in snow, it just doesn’t suck as bad as summer tires, which are downright dangerous.

But people see “all season” and think it’s actually good in all four seasons.

Nope. It is actually good in three.

Yes. I agree.
My point was more academic. WHile DWS was always regarded as best in snow in that category of UHP All Season tires, I think it is important to say that tires are more appropriate for cold weather, that transition from summer to fall or fall to winter, where one (like me) can prolong a bit moving to snow tires.
I got them over A/S4 not bcs. they have better snow performance, but actually, they are better in dry and especially wet. But one really needs to keep them pumped up due to softer walls.

 

[chris719]

The AS4 is a good performing tire that isn’t dangerous in the snow.

For actual snow use, there are much better choices - like the Continental DWS

PSAS4 and DWS06+ are literally in the same category for performance (including snow) though, so what am I missing? The AS4 actually bested it in some of the snow tests.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplayWinter.jsp?ttid=280

DWS is also a 3 season tire IMO.

 

[Rand]

IF I ran summer tires they would have been off 4 weeks ago. with all seasons I can wait to put on the snows until its..... snowing. usually early december

 

[zray1]

I have a set of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 4 on my 2002 Jaguar XKR right now. I’ve been using them for the past 3 winters and before that had the Pirelli A/S and the Goodyear A/S version in the same car.

We’ve been getting 3 or 4 winter storms every year here in NE Oklahoma. Either 4-8” of snow or an inch of ice. Those conditions generally last 2 weeks more or less. I just put three 50 lb bags of sand in the trunk and have no problems staying on the road . Of course there always some people who like to drive like it’s summertime all year round , and they end up in the bar ditch.

I like the Michelins, but when they wear out I’ll probably go back to the Pirelli’s. They don’t last quite as long , but are more fun due to the increased stickiness.

Z

 

[Astro14]

PSAS4 and DWS06+ are literally in the same category for performance (including snow) though, so what am I missing? The AS4 actually bested it in some of the snow tests.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplayWinter.jsp?ttid=280

DWS is also a 3 season tire IMO.

Well, I’ve driven both tires in the snow. Bought two sets of the Continental. They were OK in the snow. Not great, just OK.

Bought four complete sets of the Michelins AS4. Got them on the S600, SL600, and V70R. Love them in the summer and in the rain. They’re not great snow tires. Not as good as the Contis.

What are you missing?

Buying six complete sets of tires for four different cars and trying them in the real world of winter conditions in Colorado and Vermont.

 

[chris719]

Well, I’ve driven both tires in the snow. Bought two sets of the Continental. They were OK in the snow. Not great, just OK.

Bought four complete sets of the Michelins AS4. Got them on the S600, SL600, and V70R. Love them in the summer and in the rain. They’re not great snow tires. Not as good as the Contis.

What are you missing?

Buying six complete sets of tires for four different cars and trying them in the real world of winter conditions in Colorado and Vermont.

I’m not doubting your experience, but I’m going to go with the instrumented testing done on the same day with the same car. Both Tire Rack and Tyre Reviews have similar data. Neither tire has the 3PMSF as well. If the Michelin is bad in snow then the DWS is just as bad.

 

[Astro14]

I’m not doubting your experience, but I’m going to go with the instrumented testing done on the same day with the same car. Both Tire Rack and Tyre Reviews have similar data. Neither tire has the 3PMSF as well. If the Michelin is bad in snow then the DWS is just as bad.

Fair enough. That’s an interesting data point.

Please let me emphasize what I said in my previous post - I have proper winter tires, mounted on their own wheels, for the cars that see snow.

Took the AS4 off the V70R last month, and put the Blizzaks on it.

Took the Nokian WRG4 off the XC90 last weekend and put the Continental Viking Contact 7 on it.

Three notes:

1. the Viking Contact 7 are excellent in the dry. For a winter tire, they handle well and the steering precision is very good. Haven’t tried them in the snow, yet.

2. The Nokian WRG4 are better in the snow than either the Conti DWS or the Michelin AS4.

3. Both of my kids, one in Stowe, VT, and one in Salt Lake City, who have their own cars, have put on their winter tires. A set of proper winter tires, mounted on a dedicated set of wheels. Hakappelliitta in Vermont, Blizzak in Utah.

 

[AJW001]

As a sidenote, I thought this test was simply brilliant. Really goes to show how well performance all-seasons can perform at near 0C compared to even winter tires.



I have a set of the PSAS4 and Nokian Outpost APT (road-biased all weather, off-road). In my use scenario I usually keep the PSAS4s on as long as I can, until we get consistent consecutive sub-0C weather and dumps of snow (then I switch over to the Nokians). If it only remains sleety, then the PSAS4s stay on.

Often times, we get a pineapple express condition where day time temps exceed 10C in the winter. This can often last for 1-2 weeks. Under these conditions (and on my last car with dedicated winters) winter tires handle like a wet noodle and simply do not stop as well (due to tread squirm).

IMHO, for your use case scenario, the PSAS4 year-round is probably OK only if your night time temps only occasionally dip sand trucks, and you don't typically get dumps of snow.

 

[Astro14]

As a sidenote, I thought this test was simply brilliant. Really goes to show how well performance all-seasons can perform at near 0C compared to even winter tires.



I have a set of the PSAS4 and Nokian Outpost APT (road-biased all weather, off-road). In my use scenario I usually keep the PSAS4s on as long as I can, until we get consistent consecutive sub-0C weather and dumps of snow (then I switch over to the Nokians). If it only remains sleety, then the PSAS4s stay on.

Often times, we get a pineapple express condition where day time temps exceed 10C in the winter. This can often last for 1-2 weeks. Under these conditions (and on my last car with dedicated winters) winter tires handle like a wet noodle and simply do not stop as well (due to tread squirm).

That’s Interesting.

But simple braking testing is just not applicable to most of the season in the mountains, or in Vermont. Turning matters, braking matters, handling matters, and the Nordic tires are much better in winter conditions when considering all three.

The indoor lap times on snow are deceptive in characterizing the performance differences.

There is a huge performance difference between all seasons and “Nordic” tires. He even says so when describing how the car handled when hitting polished ice.

“If You encounter actual winter conditions, you fit a Nordic tire”.

His recommendation for all seasons was for UK drivers - not real winter climates.

Further, his summer tire experience was spot on. I got caught in Vermont (big change in forecast, snow, freezing rain showed up) with the S600 on summer tires.

Horrible. Absolutely dangerous. Don’t ever drive on summer tires in winter conditions. I hadn’t planned to, but as I said, I got caught.

His recommendation about all seasons applies to the cars I keep in Virginia Beach, though, with a similar mild, wet winter climate to the UK.

The Mercedes do not get driven in snow. The AWD Volvo does, about once every other year, and the Nokian WRG4 do quite well.

 

[AJW001]

That’s Interesting.

But simple braking testing is just not applicable to most of the season in the mountains, or in Vermont. Turning matters, braking matters, handling matters, and the Nordic tires are much better in winter conditions when considering all three.

The indoor lap times on snow are deceptive in characterizing the performance differences.

There is a huge performance difference between all seasons and “Nordic” tires. He even says so when describing how the car handled when hitting polished ice.

“If You encounter actual winter conditions, you fit a Nordic tire”.

His recommendation for all seasons was for UK drivers - not real winter climates.

Further, his summer tire experience was spot on. I got caught in Vermont (big change in forecast, snow, freezing rain showed up) with the S600 on summer tires.

Horrible. Absolutely dangerous. Don’t ever drive on summer tires in winter conditions. I hadn’t planned to, but as I said, I got caught.

His recommendation about all seasons applies to the cars I keep in Virginia Beach, though, with a similar mild, wet winter climate to the UK.

The Mercedes do not get driven in snow. The AWD Volvo does, about once every other year, and the Nokian WRG4 do quite well.

I hear you. My use scenario is Metro Vancouver (British Columbia) which is very similar to the UK. Over here it's moderate and predictable enough that all-weathers is the most people need (and use). There are a lot of Nokian WRG4 and Michelin CC2 users in my area. Yes, the mountains can change your requirements. But then, even here on the local mountains and even on the sea-to-sky highway to Whistler (during ski season), Nokian WRG4 and Michelin CC2 are common (under these circumstances, my Nokian Outpost APTs get put on).

El Nino typically bring us even milder winters. With any luck, I'll minimize the use of my Nokian Outpost APT, or even better, not even need to use them at all.

 

[chris719]

I use Pilot Alpin PA4 on my M2 comp in winter. I decided to keep OEM staggered setup so I will have to switch to AS4 if they never restock the rear size which has disappeared from Tire Rack . The performance winter options for 265 or 275 have disappeared for < 20" wheels it seems like.